The Lemon Fool

OH's bike use has decreased markedly. Well she is 70 and a little arfrisits creeping in, and it's hilly round here.

This e-bike looks interesting.
Nice and simple.
No gadgets.
Comes with mudguards and lights and a stand, needs only a bell.
Driven by a fan belt.

What happens when the battery dies, can one get a new one, will the maker still exist.... e-bikes do seem to be a bit of a garden shed niche business.
Anyway, inclined to give it a go.

It's crowd-funded, well over its target.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/noth ... ric-bike#/

Any thoughts?

V8

88V8 wrote:OH's bike use has decreased markedly. Well she is 70 and a little arfrisits creeping in, and it's hilly round here.

This e-bike looks interesting.
Nice and simple.
No gadgets.
Comes with mudguards and lights and a stand, needs only a bell.
Driven by a fan belt.

What happens when the battery dies, can one get a new one, will the maker still exist.... e-bikes do seem to be a bit of a garden shed niche business.
Anyway, inclined to give it a go.

It's crowd-funded, well over its target.
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/noth ... ric-bike#/

Any thoughts?

V8

A few thoughts.

Crowd funding is not risk free, although these guys seem to have a decent track record.

That said, this bike looks well made and thought out and it has the Gates drive carbon belt

One big negative though is the hub electric drive not as good as crank driven.

Another big issue is they aren't planning to ship before March 2022...so add a few months to that.

If I was looking for a no nonsense e-bike from a well respect source I'd buy one of these.

https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/s3?color=dark

They even track it down and retrieve it if it is stolen.

John

redsturgeon wrote:A few thoughts.
Crowd funding is not risk free, although these guys seem to have a decent track record.

If I was looking for a no nonsense e-bike from a well respect source I'd buy one of these.
https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/s3?color=dark

Thankyou.
Unfortunately that bike is too 'tall' for OH.
Plus it has next-gen innovation which is the sort of thing I run away from.
And my inner meanie sees that it's twice the price of the bike I might with luck have 'bought'.

It's a long time since I put anything into crowdfunding, and that was a few quid, not the £900 that I lobbed in last night... yes, I did, because they only had one of the stepover bikes left.
Stepover... can't call them 'ladies' bikes any more I suppose, harrumph.

Will it appear, will it be any good... I'll let you know.

Meanwhile I started a thread about the Whys of crowdfunding.... posting.php?mode=post&f=29

V8

We live in West Wales which is a bit lumpy. Transformed our bikes with electric front wheel hub kit with the biggest battery that I could integrated into a rack over the real wheel. I own some dodgy leg joints and my conversion was an old mountain bike step through, I find it hard getting my leg over these days We now use the bikes regularly. Highly recommend. The kit seller we used has now gone but the bikes work just fine.

88V8 wrote:Stepover... can't call them 'ladies' bikes any more I suppose, harrumph.

Must admit I had to borrow one to get to a party once as I couldn't use my bike easily in my kilt

redsturgeon wrote:If I was looking for a no nonsense e-bike from a well respect source I'd buy one of these.

https://www.vanmoof.com/en-GB/s3?color=dark

They even track it down and retrieve it if it is stolen.

John

I immediately thought of that Vanmoof when I saw the bike in the link - I've not seen one in real life yet but it ticks a lot of boxes

What I would be really interested in is a conversion kit similar to the way things are done in the nothng; it looks like it could be a very minimal and elegant solution

-sd

todthedog wrote:The kit seller we used has now gone but the bikes work just fine.

This is one thing that bothers me about e-bikes. It seems to be a cottage industry, and with many of the offerings I envisage finding in short order that the makers have vanished and there are no spares.
That should have led me to buy from an established maker, such as Specialised. Alas, my inner meanie....

Also, I am not an 'early adopter'. For instance I have yet to buy a DVD player.
But here I am 'buying' a bike that is not even in production.
The strange things we do.

V8

The pricy bit is the battery.
Not a lot to go wrong there.
Put it into perspective what are you prepared to pay for a holiday or a night out things you will never get bach

todthedog wrote:The pricy bit is the battery.
Not a lot to go wrong there.

Au contraire. It is possible, even easy, to "brick" most modern cells in a single charge cycle. A few of the failure modes are spectacular.

A battery will contain electronics (and almost always software) to prevent spectacular, and in some cases, non-spectacular battery damage. It works better if the motor controller and charger know about the batteries limitations and work with them. Using third party spares requires taking care that everything is compatible.

9873210 wrote:

todthedog wrote:The pricy bit is the battery.
Not a lot to go wrong there.

Au contraire. It is possible, even easy, to "brick" most modern cells in a single charge cycle. A few of the failure modes are spectacular.

A battery will contain electronics (and almost always software) to prevent spectacular, and in some cases, non-spectacular battery damage. It works better if the motor controller and charger know about the batteries limitations and work with them. Using third party spares requires taking care that everything is compatible.

This is true - quite an impressive energy density in a cell

But we're almost at the stage where a charger just needs to provide the correct DC voltage (and enough current)
- all the gauging, charge termination, balancing, conditioning and fault handling can be done in the battery pack

Probably too much to hope for generic swappable smart packs at the moment
- but if there's enough interest I expect that a standard might arise (an expected SMBus command subset or similar)

- sd

servodude wrote:
But we're almost at the stage where a charger just needs to provide the correct DC voltage (and enough current)
- all the gauging, charge termination, balancing, conditioning and fault handling can be done in the battery pack

Probably too much to hope for generic swappable smart packs at the moment
- but if there's enough interest I expect that a standard might arise (an expected SMBus command subset or similar)

- sd

Proper care of the battery affects discharging as well as charging. Limits during discharge may affect the user directly and can be safety issues. An e-assist going into a hard thermal shutdown in a peloton climbing Box Hill will be noticed.

Degrading performance gracefully takes significant engineering effort, based on how the battery acts as it approaches its limits. It often ends up affecting many aspects of the control algorithms. I find it hard to imagine the motor controller negotiating this with an unknown battery on the fly.

It arrived two days ago.
Crowdfunding, OK.
I finished setting it up today, no manual came with it, I had to ferret it out online and then it was a mix of text & video.

I had a trial pedal up our (steep) lane.
The motor take about a third of a turn to kick in, and with no gears that third is tough on an uphill start.
There is a 'start throttle' listed as an accessory, perhaps that would help, I have enquired.

OH has not tried it yet - she has a cold - and I have a slight concern about the saddle height, even though it is only half an inch or so above her pedal bike.
We shall see.

Anyway, it arrived.

V8

I look forward to a review after a few weeks of riding. I am definitely considering an E bike.

John

OH has now ridden it up and down the lane.
After being initially underwhelmed because I had forgotten to switch on the power.... she was rather impressed.

The saddle at its lowest is in fact 2" higher than her P-bike, but she is apparently in the habit of hopping off like a penny farthing when coming to a halt, so this did not bother her.
Tomorrow we will take our £950 bike to the new local E-bike shop for a rear carrier and a pump adaptor. Their bikes are all £2,000+ and some up to £5,000. They sell the heaviest D-locks I have ever seen.

I mentioned to the owner that I had heard of rapid wear in the drive train of some E-bikes. He said it can happen if the bike is used at high assist levels and without being in the correct gear. He observed that they have to be ridden with a degree of mechanical sympathy so that the bike is not slogging along in too high a gear. Much like driving a manual car.

OH does not do mechanical sympathy, so I think it was fortunate that I chose a bike that has only the one gear.

V8

88V8 wrote:
I mentioned to the owner that I had heard of rapid wear in the drive train of some E-bikes. He said it can happen if the bike is used at high assist levels and without being in the correct gear. He observed that they have to be ridden with a degree of mechanical sympathy so that the bike is not slogging along in too high a gear. Much like driving a manual car.

OH does not do mechanical sympathy, so I think it was fortunate that I chose a bike that has only the one gear.

V8

It can happen even if you only ride in the lowest assist mode and in the correct gear. I commute on an e mountain bike, over 3000 miles a year and it is eating chains and cassettes. Mistake was getting a 12speed as the spares are expensive and delicate.

daveh wrote:

88V8 wrote:
I mentioned to the owner that I had heard of rapid wear in the drive train of some E-bikes. He said it can happen if the bike is used at high assist levels and without being in the correct gear. He observed that they have to be ridden with a degree of mechanical sympathy so that the bike is not slogging along in too high a gear. Much like driving a manual car.

OH does not do mechanical sympathy, so I think it was fortunate that I chose a bike that has only the one gear.

V8

It can happen even if you only ride in the lowest assist mode and in the correct gear. I commute on an e mountain bike, over 3000 miles a year and it is eating chains and cassettes. Mistake was getting a 12speed as the spares are expensive and delicate.

It happens to drive trains on pedal cycles too. You'd be better off with a 1990 6x2 drive train. There is a lot of stuff developed for racing that should have no place on most bikes. If you're riding an E-bike you're probably not racing.

9873210 wrote:

daveh wrote:

88V8 wrote:
I mentioned to the owner that I had heard of rapid wear in the drive train of some E-bikes. He said it can happen if the bike is used at high assist levels and without being in the correct gear. He observed that they have to be ridden with a degree of mechanical sympathy so that the bike is not slogging along in too high a gear. Much like driving a manual car.

OH does not do mechanical sympathy, so I think it was fortunate that I chose a bike that has only the one gear.

V8

It can happen even if you only ride in the lowest assist mode and in the correct gear. I commute on an e mountain bike, over 3000 miles a year and it is eating chains and cassettes. Mistake was getting a 12speed as the spares are expensive and delicate.

It happens to drive trains on pedal cycles too. You'd be better off with a 1990 6x2 drive train. There is a lot of stuff developed for racing that should have no place on most bikes. If you're riding an E-bike you're probably not racing.

I helped a mate service his "e-bike"; in quotes because it's a cheap bike with an overspecced bafang motor at the cranks.

The cog they come with is pretty hefty and is a bit of a tight fit in the 7spd chain; the cassette though might as well have been cheese - it looked like he had been at it with an angle grinder!
Which incidentally will be how he needs to remove the motor if he ever wants to as it looks like the bottom bracket was installed without understanding there's a particular tool for the job.

9873210 wrote:

daveh wrote:

88V8 wrote:
I mentioned to the owner that I had heard of rapid wear in the drive train of some E-bikes. He said it can happen if the bike is used at high assist levels and without being in the correct gear. He observed that they have to be ridden with a degree of mechanical sympathy so that the bike is not slogging along in too high a gear. Much like driving a manual car.

OH does not do mechanical sympathy, so I think it was fortunate that I chose a bike that has only the one gear.

V8

It can happen even if you only ride in the lowest assist mode and in the correct gear. I commute on an e mountain bike, over 3000 miles a year and it is eating chains and cassettes. Mistake was getting a 12speed as the spares are expensive and delicate.

It happens to drive trains on pedal cycles too. You'd be better off with a 1990 6x2 drive train. There is a lot of stuff developed for racing that should have no place on most bikes. If you're riding an E-bike you're probably not racing.

Unless you're cheating of course!

I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

GrahamPlatt wrote:I seem to recall reading - and I’ve just been back on the indiegogo site to check & see that memory serves - that the bike has a “Gates Carbon Drive”. That should last, no?

Yes, it does.
Like an overgrown cogged fan belt.

I hope it will last, and probably cheap to replace when it wears.

V8