Books 1 - E-books 0

[Clitheroekid]

Well not exactly, but as a lover of books I was pleased to see that book sales grew by 6% last year, while e-book sales fell by 3%.

Though my elation was slightly tempered when I read that a significant part of the increase was due to books on the Danish concept of hygge, adult colouring books and fitness books by personal trainer Joe Wicks (who he?) and that fiction sales had fallen by 7%. Still, in dark times for books any positive news is to be welcomed.

Incidentally, I recently re-read Decline and Fall, prior to watching the BBC adaptation. Although written in 1928 it was as sharp and witty as ever, and a delight, though attitudes to racism and pederasty were somewhat more `relaxed' in 1928 than they are now!

I don't know if anyone watched the TV adaptation, but although I was expecting to be disappointed I really enjoyed it, and would thoroughly recommend it as a mini-bingewatch over a wet Bank Holiday weekend - http://www.bbc.co.uk/search?q=Decline%2 ... 3Ab08l67g5.

[Urbandreamer]

Well not exactly, but as a lover of books I was pleased to see that book sales grew by 6% last year, while e-book sales fell by 3%.

I confess that, while I have come across that attitude about everything from football to vegetarianism, tribalisem never ceases to amaze me.

OK, I can understand bookshops wishing that people bought paper books, but how does how others chose to read their books impact upon you? What harm do those who read e-books do you?

I'd also question the headline figures. There is no publicly available source to check it against, probably because nobody pays to collect and process the data. You might find this article from 2015 informative, or dismiss it.
http://fortune.com/2015/09/24/ebook-sales/

You might also like this amazon report, which does indeed show that including hardbacked books and board books (I think that's the like of the hungrey cattapiller) print outsells ebooks at Amazon.
http://authorearnings.com/report/februa ... gs-report/

However Is it a comptition? Some have pointed out that a big book is easier to read as a ebook because it weighs less. I'll point out that The Jolly Pocket Postman, just wouldn't work as a ebook. Can't we just agree to be happy about both?

Ps, while my teenage daughter reads quite a few e-books she has just discovered a cheap source of paper ones. Guess which she's spending her pocket money on.

[Slarti]

OK, I can understand bookshops wishing that people bought paper books, but how does how others chose to read their books impact upon you? What harm do those who read e-books do you?

If too many people read e-books, compared to paper books, the price of paper books will go up, or they will just disappear from the world.


Slarti

[bungeejumper]

Well not exactly, but as a lover of books I was pleased to see that book sales grew by 6% last year, while e-book sales fell by 3%.

I confess that, while I have come across that attitude about everything from football to vegetarianism, tribalisem never ceases to amaze me.

OK, I can understand bookshops wishing that people bought paper books, but how does how others chose to read their books impact upon you? What harm do those who read e-books do you?

Maybe you'd better start by explaining exactly where the OP said that people's choices 'impacted on him', or that their preference for e-books 'harmed' him?

And if you can't, don't you think a small apology is in order?

BJ

[Urbandreamer]

Maybe you'd better start by explaining exactly where the OP said that people's choices 'impacted on him', or ...

BJ

I would have thought that it was inherant in the expressed opinion that the OP was "pleased to see that book sales grew by 6% last year, while e-book sales fell by 3%."

That clearly states that the OP is pleased that the figures are one way rather than the other. The reasons for that opinion can only be guessed at, but usually people do have a reason for their opinions. Without knowing the OP's reasons I can't judge if asking how such sales impacted upon them could be considered insulting.

To be clear, I asked a question. Possibly not as politely as I should have done, but it was a question.

Slatri has expresed his opinion. However I would note that Baen is currently producing a leather bound edition of a book first self-published and available as an ebook.

http://www.simonandschuster.co.uk/books ... 476782201#
Here is the history of its writing by the author.
http://monsterhunternation.com/2008/08/ ... ublishing/

If there is a market someone will sell the product. Even leather bound editions of an ebook that you can currently download for free from the same publisher. Here is a link if you want to do so.
http://www.baen.com/monster-hunter-international.html

I'll repeat my question to the OP phrased differently.

Why does the OP have a preference over which is more popular with others, ebooks or paper books?

[midnightcatprowl]

Despite being a big fan of the e-book I'd say there is no danger of printed books disappearing from the world at least not while there are interior decorators or member of the public who are fond of being amateur interior decorators. My mother - herself a great reader - worked for a company which ran a rather posh book shop and also supplied books to the local public libraries. My mother's job was to get together the correct books and prepare them for the shelves with a polythene jacket and an insert saying they were the property of X City Libraries and one of those paper sheets where the due date for return would be stamped when someone checked a book out of the library.

In the lead up to Christmas however my mother and her colleague would be transferred from library servicing to serving in the shop. There my mother to her great astonishment met the phenomena of the person who orders books by the length of shelf which they are to cover and the colour of leather of the binding. At the start, in her innocence, she would try to engage the purchaser in discussing the type of books required, fiction, non-fiction, particular authors, only to discover the purchasers had no interest in the contents of the books as they had no intention of reading any of them.

[bungeejumper]

I'm still a big fan of ordinary books - I have a Kindle but I've rarely touched it in five years, and I fear that it'll turn up on the Antiques Roadshow before I get to know it properly.

For me, the physical pleasure of holding a book in my hand is part of the whole experience - propping myself up on one elbow while reading in the long grass, perhaps, or putting it down to reach for a glass of wine. And I do like being able to see the whole page, just the way it was designed, and get that sense of having read half a chapter, or a quarter of a book, or whatever it is that you don't get when you're reading it off an electronic loo roll that goes on and on and on and on, with every page push-buttoned along, and looking just like the last one.

I need to declare another personal factor at this point. I make my living with (and from) words, and I can get all the scrolling screen text I want from nine to five (or six, or seven, or eight). Books are more special than that. Well, to me anyway.

BJ

[Clitheroekid]

Well not exactly, but as a lover of books I was pleased to see that book sales grew by 6% last year, while e-book sales fell by 3%.

I confess that, while I have come across that attitude about everything from football to vegetarianism, tribalisem never ceases to amaze me.

OK, I can understand bookshops wishing that people bought paper books, but how does how others chose to read their books impact upon you?

Well I suppose it impacts on me in that if people choose to read e-books instead of paper books it means that even more bookshops will close. And as I happen to immensely enjoy visiting bookshops the fewer bookshops there are the fewer opportunities there will be for me to indulge myself.

What harm do those who read e-books do you?

Other than potentially contributing to the closure of bookshops none at all, and I can't see how you would infer that from my original statement. I might just as well have said that I would be pleased to hear that the number of people having tattoos had fallen. Although tattooed people do me no harm at all I happen to think they look dreadful, so the fewer people that have them the happier I shall be.

However Is it a comptition? Some have pointed out that a big book is easier to read as a ebook because it weighs less. I'll point out that The Jolly Pocket Postman, just wouldn't work as a ebook. Can't we just agree to be happy about both?

You make me sound as though I want to ban e-books. I've no objection at all to them in principle, and I'm sure that for many people they are a better alternative to paper books. And I'd far rather have people reading e-books than not reading books at all.

But going back to my original point I would prefer people to buy paper books than e-books, and that's why the figures quoted (accurate or not) pleased me.

[midnightcatprowl]

as I happen to immensely enjoy visiting bookshops the fewer bookshops there are the fewer opportunities there will be for me to indulge myself.

Worth mentioning in passing that one of the reasons for the great decline in book shops was not really e-books (as the decline had started long before) but the tendency of so many people to enjoy visiting bookshops as opposed to buying books in bookshops.

[Urbandreamer]

Thanks for the reply Clitheroekid and I'm sorry if I placed too much stress on your statement.

As midnightcatprowl states, the decline in bookshops is I fear long standing. Thirty years ago I was buying mail order books due to a lack of local bookshops (mostly US imports as it happens). Some of us will remember (some time later) bookshops closing in droves with the end of the Net Book Agreement. More recently the rise of the internet book seller makes it even more difficult for traditional book shops to remain open. This is true even for second hand or antiquarian books, given the likes of abebooks.

I'm sure that ebooks don't help, but I do think that they are simply one of a multitude of troubles for those who wish bricks and morter shops. Indeed it would be interesting to identify what percentage of the paper book sales mentioned were from book shops rather than supermarkets or over the internet.

BTW I did visit a bookshop that had destroyed kindles mounted as decoration. I personally felt that somewhat excessive and soon left.

[midnightcatprowl]

More recently the rise of the internet book seller makes it even more difficult for traditional book shops to remain open. This is true even for second hand or antiquarian books, given the likes of abebooks.

This is true but there is some revival in the book shop scene. For example in Bedford where I live Waterstones seems to be doing well in the town centre, and on Castle Road there is the The Eagle Bookshop which is a second hand bookshop selling all sorts of interesting stuff and Rogan's Books which is devoted to children's books. A couple of small independents have gone west in recent years but in both cases, though pleasant places to visit, they seemed to be lacking in innovation and ideas to get people through the doors. The town still manages to support a WH Smith (if you call that a bookshop), a small Christian bookshop (also on Castle Road) and as well as the main Oxfam Shop with the usual mix of this that and the other both new and second hand, there is a small Oxfam Shop in town on St Paul's Square which just sells books, maps, stamps and music.

I can remember The Eagle Bookshop, which specialises in antiquarian, maths and science books, opening up in 1991 when I thought it would be lucky to last six months but it is still alive, and apparently well, in much larger premises than at the start. I think this is assisted by the most delightfully quirky website which does not sell books but is rather completely focused on persuading you that you can't live any longer without visiting the equally quirky shop.

I think among those surviving and thriving there is a different concept of book shop. Waterstones don't only offer lots of books, maps, etc but have made what might be called 'book accessories' into a bit of an art form. Love such things or hate them (I have a friend who loves the accessories as well as the books which makes for very easy present buying) if they help pay the rent and keep the shop open I'm all for it. Waterstones is also heavily into 'events' ranging from book signings to Harry Potter evenings with everyone turning up with their wands to engage in Hogwart type activities. The traditional book buyer may hate this sort of thing but after all no one is forced to attend. Although Waterstones is a national chain apparently quite a lot of freedom is allowed to individual managers to develop the shop in ways which work in the particular area where they are trying to trade which means the shops have some character rather than just being clones.

Rogan's books are also heavily into events, I went in before Christmas and had to squeeze in sideways through parents with pushchairs and babies in arms who were there with their slightly older children who were watching spellbound as someone demonstrated how he draws illustrations for books. Well I think that was what he was demonstrating but the audience was certainly enjoying it.

Eagle is the least into events but they stick with quirky when they do which suits the style of the place. Also when Eagle decides a book is just too bedraggled to be sold they now turn suitable parts of it into home made greetings cards. I don't suppose the latter is a huge trade but hey I bought two of them for friends I knew would be amused by them and I can't be the only one buying.

This recent article in the Guardian https://www.theguardian.com/books/2017/ ... nky-unhip- was actually less about why e-books seem to have lost a bit of their shine recently than it was about how the severe crisis in book selling finally made both publishers and book shops realise they had to up their act. So there is a trend to publishing books with better text on better paper and with the books own cover decorated in some way not just the dust jacket. Book shops that thrive are doing so by being more creative and more understanding of what the customer wants i.e. the customer who is likely to buy rather than the customer just there to browse.

The other interesting thing is that in some ways e-books are allowing books to be printed which otherwise might never have been published at all. There has been a lot of self-publishing of e-books as obviously it is much more financially feasible to do this than to pay for a print run. Doubtless many self-published books are awful but some are gems which might otherwise never have seen the light. I am a great fan of the Hugh Howey 'Dust' Trilogy, originally self-published as e-books, became something of a cult read for certain types of Sci-Fi fans and now in print in a bookshop near you.

The Guardian article made the point that, as well as enterprising individuals self-publishing in e-book form, publishers now often test the waters with new titles by trying them out in an e-book and then going into print with those which seem to be taking off.

[Urbandreamer]

..... is true but there is some revival in the book shop scene. For example in Bedford where I live Waterstones seems to be doing well in the town centre, and ....

I would agree that Bedford is well served with bookshops (having visited often). Sadly, if we discount W H Smiths, my own towns bookshop is the British Heart Foundation, which stocks its shelves from donations.

Thanks for the link by the way. Oh and since I know that you read ebooks, have you come across the concept of an EARC (electronic advanced reader copy)? These are "pre-release" books sold while the final proof read is taking place.

There are typos, and the odd mistake, but you get the book significantly early.

[UncleEbenezer]

If too many people read e-books, compared to paper books, the price of paper books will go up, or they will just disappear from the world.
Slarti

Nonsense. Since technology now allows individual copies to be printed and bound, numbers are irrelevant. Except as a means for publishers to exercise power over authors and readers.

Sadly, paper books have always been way beyond my means. I cannot envisage ever being so rich as to have the space to keep them.

[midnightcatprowl]

Oh and since I know that you read ebooks, have you come across the concept of an EARC (electronic advanced reader copy)? These are "pre-release" books sold while the final proof read is taking place.

There are typos, and the odd mistake, but you get the book significantly early.

That's interesting. I hadn't heard of them. Typos would not be a source of concern as they actually occur in if not the majority then certainly a large proportion of e-books. I can understand that some people will be put off them for that reason, I don't find it a problem as I'm one of those irritating people who always knows what the author meant regardless of the spelling.

[Slarti]

If too many people read e-books, compared to paper books, the price of paper books will go up, or they will just disappear from the world.
Slarti

Nonsense. Since technology now allows individual copies to be printed and bound, numbers are irrelevant. Except as a means for publishers to exercise power over authors and readers.

Sadly, paper books have always been way beyond my means. I cannot envisage ever being so rich as to have the space to keep them.

But, if the publishers are not printing them and getting them into the shops, how would we know that they exist? And they would almost certainly cost more than a proper print run.


As for books being beyond your means and not having the space to keep them, I suppose it does depend on if you are referring to hardbacks or paperbacks, paperbacks taking up much less space and costing much less than the hardback.

Slarti