Human alien interactions

[doolally]

I can find nothing wrong with the paper & it was peer reviewed.

Regards,

A paper could be written by an ape and be peer reviewed, but that would not make it sound science
doolally

[odysseus2000]

I haven't either.

All I was trying to suggest was that it feels like quite a leap to dismiss currently-unknown earth-bound technology that might be capable of messing with man-made sensors, and yet declaring that the correct answer to this issue must be faster-than-light travelling spacecraft containing red-neck kidnapping, bovine-blood-sucking aliens, that's all...

Occam's razor isn't what they use before the probing starts, you know....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I am trying to put together observations of unknown phenomena into a potential explanation.

We may never know what is causing these uap, but we may get more data that allows us to eliminate some hypothesis.

As things are the best fit from thousands of human uap interactions that I can find is vessels in the skies that are crewed by non human creatures with capabilities beyond anything we can do.

As of now this is still a low probability but high potential impact possibility. If this hypothesis is correct we may be moving towards, or our leaders have already had, a “first contact” situation. If this happens we may or already have found for selected individuals, access to technology that changes everything.

We know that various phenomena exist that we do not understand & we know that the politicians have lied to us for decades about uap.

What does this all mean? I find it a fascination & one where more & more information is coming out from governments, possibly preparing humans for disclosures that change our understanding of many things & that includes the origin of humans.

Clearly without some definitive evidence it is guess work guided by a few facts & so all I can do is look at the evidence & try to understand it. As of now everything is consistent with alien technology in the skies.

I am open to alternative suggestions but as of yet the many alternatives I have studied are more unlikely than my current thesis. If anyone has better ideas please post.

Regards,

[servodude]

I am open to alternative suggestions but as of yet the many alternatives I have studied are more unlikely than my current thesis

If I was being honest this sounds more like motivated reasoning than rational analysis

I get that "the truth is out there" and that's appealing: that's why it's such a common trope in pop culture

But it requires a tenacious grip on the grasped straws that remain in the miniscule proportion of incidents that haven't been comprehensively debunked...yet

Occam is normally proven right... enjoy it while it lasts

[CliffEdge]

I haven't either.

All I was trying to suggest was that it feels like quite a leap to dismiss currently-unknown earth-bound technology that might be capable of messing with man-made sensors, and yet declaring that the correct answer to this issue must be faster-than-light travelling spacecraft containing red-neck kidnapping, bovine-blood-sucking aliens, that's all...

Occam's razor isn't what they use before the probing starts, you know....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I am trying to put together observations of unknown phenomena into a potential explanation.

We may never know what is causing these uap, but we may get more data that allows us to eliminate some hypothesis.

As things are the best fit from thousands of human uap interactions that I can find is vessels in the skies that are crewed by non human creatures with capabilities beyond anything we can do.

As of now this is still a low probability but high potential impact possibility. If this hypothesis is correct we may be moving towards, or our leaders have already had, a “first contact” situation. If this happens we may or already have found for selected individuals, access to technology that changes everything.

We know that various phenomena exist that we do not understand & we know that the politicians have lied to us for decades about uap.

What does this all mean? I find it a fascination & one where more & more information is coming out from governments, possibly preparing humans for disclosures that change our understanding of many things & that includes the origin of humans.

Clearly without some definitive evidence it is guess work guided by a few facts & so all I can do is look at the evidence & try to understand it. As of now everything is consistent with alien technology in the skies.

I am open to alternative suggestions but as of yet the many alternatives I have studied are more unlikely than my current thesis. If anyone has better ideas please post.

Regards,

You want to believe this nonsense, your analysis is simply faith.

[XFool]

Prof Knuth in the referenced paper also calculates the energy released from an high held object coming through the atmosphere down to sea level, it is very significant & almost impossible to miss & there would also be sonic booms.

Then, if there weren't, perhaps it wasn't a substantial material object?

I have a lot of problems with the famous Nimitz/Tic-Tac UAP. Namely that I have a lot of difficulty following exactly what is going on. For instance, did they actually see it directly with their own eyes, or only via the AFLIR system? I know this sounds as if it should be obvious but it never seems explicitly stated. Again I read on the Internet that the AFLIR system has a built in laser rangefinder the (R in AFLIR). Great! We could for once possibly get a definite measurement of range and then, working backwards even get some estimate of real size. But the Knuth paper doesn't seem to mention this, why not? It goes the other way round, estimating range from the "size" - but how does anyone know the size of an unidentified, distant object? IMO, nobody is an expert at doing that. Too many uncertainties everywhere for me.

I don't argue with Knuth's calculations, I am just not convinced of the physical reality of the "vehicle" he applies his calculations to.

At least the 1951 event was simpler and more physically graspable. As well as being more fun!

I wonder if UFOs or UAPs are rather like poltergeist phenomenon, triggered by some possible real world phenomenon but then 'realised' via human perception, psychology and thinking. A kind of presentationism, pseudo-phenomenon. I do sometimes feel that the experience of being presented with a UFO report, either written or an interview is a bit like experiencing a UFO itself - a frustratingly limited, constrained experience with no apparent way of finding out more. Unlike a UFO encounter it can be re-read or replayed, but this is just the identical thing over again, no more informative really than a one off UFO encounter.

[XFool]

Anyway... Did I ever tell you about my encounter with 'The spaceship in the park' ?

[odysseus2000]

I can find nothing wrong with the paper & it was peer reviewed.

Regards,

A paper could be written by an ape and be peer reviewed, but that would not make it sound science
doolally

In many subjects yes, but not in physics where the analysis has to be constrained by the laws of physics. That is what the peer reviewers check for.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

I haven't either.

All I was trying to suggest was that it feels like quite a leap to dismiss currently-unknown earth-bound technology that might be capable of messing with man-made sensors, and yet declaring that the correct answer to this issue must be faster-than-light travelling spacecraft containing red-neck kidnapping, bovine-blood-sucking aliens, that's all...

Occam's razor isn't what they use before the probing starts, you know....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I am trying to put together observations of unknown phenomena into a potential explanation.

We may never know what is causing these uap, but we may get more data that allows us to eliminate some hypothesis.

As things are the best fit from thousands of human uap interactions that I can find is vessels in the skies that are crewed by non human creatures with capabilities beyond anything we can do.

As of now this is still a low probability but high potential impact possibility. If this hypothesis is correct we may be moving towards, or our leaders have already had, a “first contact” situation. If this happens we may or already have found for selected individuals, access to technology that changes everything.

We know that various phenomena exist that we do not understand & we know that the politicians have lied to us for decades about uap.

What does this all mean? I find it a fascination & one where more & more information is coming out from governments, possibly preparing humans for disclosures that change our understanding of many things & that includes the origin of humans.

Clearly without some definitive evidence it is guess work guided by a few facts & so all I can do is look at the evidence & try to understand it. As of now everything is consistent with alien technology in the skies.

I am open to alternative suggestions but as of yet the many alternatives I have studied are more unlikely than my current thesis. If anyone has better ideas please post.

Regards,

You want to believe this nonsense, your analysis is simply faith.

The analysis is not faith. In faith one has to believe without any factual information. In this subject there is a lot of factual information.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

Prof Knuth in the referenced paper also calculates the energy released from an high held object coming through the atmosphere down to sea level, it is very significant & almost impossible to miss & there would also be sonic booms.

Then, if there weren't, perhaps it wasn't a substantial material object?

I have a lot of problems with the famous Nimitz/Tic-Tac UAP. Namely that I have a lot of difficulty following exactly what is going on. For instance, did they actually see it directly with their own eyes, or only via the AFLIR system? I know this sounds as if it should be obvious but it never seems explicitly stated. Again I read on the Internet that the AFLIR system has a built in laser rangefinder the (R in AFLIR). Great! We could for once possibly get a definite measurement of range and then, working backwards even get some estimate of real size. But the Knuth paper doesn't seem to mention this, why not? It goes the other way round, estimating range from the "size" - but how does anyone know the size of an unidentified, distant object? IMO, nobody is an expert at doing that. Too many uncertainties everywhere for me.

I don't argue with Knuth's calculations, I am just not convinced of the physical reality of the "vehicle" he applies his calculations to.

At least the 1951 event was simpler and more physically graspable. As well as being more fun!

I wonder if UFOs or UAPs are rather like poltergeist phenomenon, triggered by some possible real world phenomenon but then 'realised' via human perception, psychology and thinking. A kind of presentationism, pseudo-phenomenon. I do sometimes feel that the experience of being presented with a UFO report, either written or an interview is a bit like experiencing a UFO itself - a frustratingly limited, constrained experience with no apparent way of finding out more. Unlike a UFO encounter it can be re-read or replayed, but this is just the identical thing over again, no more informative really than a one off UFO encounter.

There are suggestions that the us navy has not released all the information from the Nimitz & that much better video & data that would tell hostile nations the capability of the us systems has been kept classified.

There are also suggestions that the us has a lot of high resolution satellite images which have also been kept confidential for the same reasons of not telling a potential hostile what they can do.

The analogy with poltergeist doesn’t hold as there is no simultaneous multi wavelength observational data, most poltergeist encounters are not supported with measured data that has been consistent over 70+ years.

Regards,

[CliffEdge]

I haven't either.

All I was trying to suggest was that it feels like quite a leap to dismiss currently-unknown earth-bound technology that might be capable of messing with man-made sensors, and yet declaring that the correct answer to this issue must be faster-than-light travelling spacecraft containing red-neck kidnapping, bovine-blood-sucking aliens, that's all...

Occam's razor isn't what they use before the probing starts, you know....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

I am trying to put together observations of unknown phenomena into a potential explanation.

We may never know what is causing these uap, but we may get more data that allows us to eliminate some hypothesis.

As things are the best fit from thousands of human uap interactions that I can find is vessels in the skies that are crewed by non human creatures with capabilities beyond anything we can do.

As of now this is still a low probability but high potential impact possibility. If this hypothesis is correct we may be moving towards, or our leaders have already had, a “first contact” situation. If this happens we may or already have found for selected individuals, access to technology that changes everything.

We know that various phenomena exist that we do not understand & we know that the politicians have lied to us for decades about uap.

What does this all mean? I find it a fascination & one where more & more information is coming out from governments, possibly preparing humans for disclosures that change our understanding of many things & that includes the origin of humans.

Clearly without some definitive evidence it is guess work guided by a few facts & so all I can do is look at the evidence & try to understand it. As of now everything is consistent with alien technology in the skies.

I am open to alternative suggestions but as of yet the many alternatives I have studied are more unlikely than my current thesis. If anyone has better ideas please post.

Regards,

You want to believe this nonsense, your analysis is simply faith.

The analysis is not faith. In faith one has to believe without any factual information. In this subject there is a lot of factual information.

Regards,

You don't have any factual information.

[88V8]

You don't have any factual information.

Neither did Einstein.

V8

[Sorcery]

Further to my promise of a spectacular uap here is a link showing a video taken from the ISS. There are some videos in there, I especially like the one with the upwards blue jet starting and where a huge (country/small continent size) hole opens up above it.
https://inf.news/en/nature/02ef6e356ea8 ... c2b39.html

Unexplained in that it's fairly new and the scientitsts are still working on understanding it.
Google images "iss blue jets" for a lot of different types of non standard lightning.

[scrumpyjack]

Further to my promise of a spectacular uap here is a link showing a video taken from the ISS. There are some videos in there, I especially like the one with the upwards blue jet starting and where a huge (country/small continent size) hole opens up above it.
https://inf.news/en/nature/02ef6e356ea8 ... c2b39.html

Unexplained in that it's fairly new and the scientitsts are still working on understanding it.
Google images "iss blue jets" for a lot of different types of non standard lightning.

Impressive photos, but they are clearly alien spacecraft, not lightening

[scrumpyjack]

It is amazing human arrogance to assume that everything must be in line with our current understanding of physics and that Life can only exist if it is like life on earth.

It is just possible that we do not yet know everything!

[CliffEdge]

You don't have any factual information.

Neither did Einstein.

V8

Yet again I'm amazed. I assume you do mean Albert Einstein?

[CliffEdge]

It is amazing human arrogance to assume that everything must be in line with our current understanding of physics and that Life can only exist if it is like life on earth.

It is just possible that we do not yet know everything!

Roger Penrose claims that we need a whole new science. Our present science only describes, doesn't explain anything.

[mc2fool]

In the paper he looks at several ufo incidents stretching over decades & estimates the acceleration from the measured data & all are consistent with each other

Accelerations "ranging from 100g to well over 5000g" isn't consistent. Indeed, that wildly wide range indicates different phenomenon, and not just one explanation.

Prof Knuth then calculates if such acceleration would make interstellar travel possible; it would.

Any acceleration, or indeed, even none after the initial kick, would make interstellar travel possible. Or are you and Associate Professor Knuth (I googled him) making some non-evidence based assumptions about what the supposed aliens would consider acceptable travel times? From what, us? A sample size of one?

And then there's Figure 7, the notes for which say, "(A). This figure shows the time required to reach relativistic speeds for a craft undergoing constant acceleration at 1000g. In less than 24hrs, such a craft would exceed 90% the speed of light. " And, further, the chart shows the speed getting asymptotically up to within a whisker of c in 2 days.

And yet not a single mention anywhere of relativistic mass increase and the corresponding huge increased energy requirements, asymptotic to infinite as c is approached.

A paper could be written by an ape and be peer reviewed, but that would not make it sound science

In many subjects yes, but not in physics where the analysis has to be constrained by the laws of physics. That is what the peer reviewers check for.

Well I guess they overlooked that basic Einsteinian constraint by the laws of physics then....

Prof Knuth in the referenced paper also calculates the energy released from an high held object coming through the atmosphere down to sea level, it is very significant & almost impossible to miss & there would also be sonic booms.

"For example, the Tic-Tac UAV dropping from 28,000 ft to sea level in 0.78s involved at least 4.3×1011J of energy (assuming a mass of 1000kg), which is equivalent to about 100 tons of TNT, or the yield of 200 Tomahawk cruise missiles, released in 3/4 of a second."

Assuming a mass of a nice round metric tonne?!? Based on what? A sample size of ... um, zero?

[ReformedCharacter]

It is amazing human arrogance to assume that everything must be in line with our current understanding of physics and that Life can only exist if it is like life on earth.

It is just possible that we do not yet know everything!

Quite. I sometimes think about the worms in my garden. Compared with some other life forms they're quite sophisticated and more or less masters of their underground habitat. But they're incapable of understanding or percieving human life and are only directedly affected by human life when my spade unfortunately meets with one. It seems not inconcievable that there are life forms that are to us as we are to worms.

RC

[mc2fool]

It is amazing human arrogance to assume that everything must be in line with our current understanding of physics and that Life can only exist if it is like life on earth.

It is just possible that we do not yet know everything!

Quite. I sometimes think about the worms in my garden. Compared with some other life forms they're quite sophisticated and more or less masters of their underground habitat. But they're incapable of understanding or percieving human life and are only directedly affected by human life when my spade unfortunately meets with one. It seems not inconcievable that there are life forms that are to us as we are to worms.

RC

Well clearly we don't know everything or we'd know what these unidentified phenomenon are.

In any case, I'm not sure anyone does assume that (well, I suppose someone does!), but the difficulty is that we only have our current understanding and a sample size of one to go on, and life as on earth is all we know of for sure, indeed, all we know of at all.

Speculation is fine, to a point, but you have to put some constraint on it otherwise you just go anywhere and everywhere, from trans-dimensional beings, to pixies, to gods and goddesses, etc, etc, and while possibly entertaining that's not particularly useful...

[ursaminortaur]

You don't have any factual information.

Neither did Einstein.

V8

Yes he did - The Michelson–Morley experiment which showed that the speed of light was constant, in accordance with Maxwell's theories on electromagnetism, and wasn't affected by the Earth's movement as would have happened with the proposed aether.