Human alien interactions

[odysseus2000]

In early April of 2022, the Sun news paper released some information on the interactions between unidentified atmospheric phenomena & humans after a freedom of information request for details on a secret US program:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5053632/us ... programme/

If any of this is reality it is the most direct evidence for advanced creatures ever created.

Clearly we can be suspicious based on many things such as weapons of mass destruction in Iraq & the need for Gulf war 2 etc.

However, we now have evidence of unidentified aerial phenomenon seen by various wavelengths including optical & radar & centuries long folk lore of encounters with unknown creatures that we are now told is supported by measurable physical changes in those who claim to have had such experiences.

It is difficult for me to rationalise away all this data as not indicating the existence of non human intelligent entities. To do so I need a global conspiracy to create fictional data.

Can anyone give a rational explanation based on currently known physics.

Regards,

[XFool]

In early April of 2022, the Sun news paper released some information on the interactions between unidentified atmospheric phenomena & humans after a freedom of information request for details on a secret US program:
...

Can anyone give a rational explanation based on currently known physics.

No.

But... it's complicated. You are, for instance, assuming all of the above are explicable by one central theory. I don't see any necessary reason to believe that.

In simple terms I don't 'believe in UFOs' - it would require some serious (and I mean serious) evidence to convince me of aliens amongst us. That said, this subject is endlessly intriguing.

The trouble is, it never goes anywhere - and I don't see how it ever can, based just on UAP reports. They can rarely be satisfactorily explained in retrospect and there is no possibility of actually examining or studying what is always a one-off, witnessed event. So for me, it's a kind of stalemate until and unless something radically new were to occur.

I know and understand how many people can find these reports convincing, yet I am still unconvinced. It may not be easy for me to put across why this is so.

[CliffEdge]

In early April of 2022, the Sun news paper released some information on the interactions between unidentified atmospheric phenomena & humans after a freedom of information request for details on a secret US program:

https://www.the-sun.com/news/5053632/us ... programme/

If any of this is reality it is the most direct evidence for advanced creatures ever created.

Clearly we can be suspicious based on many things such as weapons of mass destruction in Iraq & the need for Gulf war 2 etc.

However, we now have evidence of unidentified aerial phenomenon seen by various wavelengths including optical & radar & centuries long folk lore of encounters with unknown creatures that we are now told is supported by measurable physical changes in those who claim to have had such experiences.

It is difficult for me to rationalise away all this data as not indicating the existence of non human intelligent entities. To do so I need a global conspiracy to create fictional data.

Can anyone give a rational explanation based on currently known physics.

Regards,

There is evidence that Bitcoin is an alien invention.

[bungeejumper]

There is evidence that Bitcoin is an alien invention.

Citation needed.

Whereas if you'd said the same about Michael Fabricant, I might be inclined to agree.

BJ

[odysseus2000]

I concur that there is no 100% certain evidence.

However, how to explain observations by several people by eyeball + radar in tens of thousands of events since radar was developed, so over 80 years?

Secondly how do you explain the observation of measurable health effects on people who say they have been abducted?

The only way I can reconcile all of the observations & reports is to say that there is an international conspiracy to invent aliens as some amusing or otherwise game by all intelligence networks of all the governments of the world & that seems unlikely too.

I can not even though I hold a physics PhD explain the released footage of contacts with unidentified aerial phenomenon. The uap move in ways that are inconsistent with my knowledge of physics.

If I am to dismiss all of this I have to assume reports & eye witness sightings over centuries are all fictional. Clearly it is now possible to create fake videos but if so I then have to assume all the eye witness sightings are fake too.

Regards,

[ReformedCharacter]

I concur that there is no 100% certain evidence.

However, how to explain observations by several people by eyeball + radar in tens of thousands of events since radar was developed, so over 80 years?

Secondly how do you explain the observation of measurable health effects on people who say they have been abducted?

The only way I can reconcile all of the observations & reports is to say that there is an international conspiracy to invent aliens as some amusing or otherwise game by all intelligence networks of all the governments of the world & that seems unlikely too.

I can not even though I hold a physics PhD explain the released footage of contacts with unidentified aerial phenomenon. The uap move in ways that are inconsistent with my knowledge of physics.

If I am to dismiss all of this I have to assume reports & eye witness sightings over centuries are all fictional. Clearly it is now possible to create fake videos but if so I then have to assume all the eye witness sightings are fake too.

Regards,

I agree, but as Carl Sagan apparently said, 'Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence' and we don't have that (yet). Another problems is that there is an entire industry making conspiratorial or just crack-pot claims that prove to be unfounded, Roswell etc. and that muddies the water for the open-minded. I found some of the military radar objects shown recently to be on the more convincing end of the spectrum.

RC

[stevensfo]

What I find rather significant is the fact that many years ago, we had all these reports of sightings, yet today, with everyone holding a smartphone with excellent camera and video, we see pretty much nothing.

Besides, what interest would our society hold for any aliens? Even if extraterrestrials want to know more about us, why would they hover above the clouds in humming saucers with weird flashing lights, when their nanotech is probably so advanced that various ants, goldfish in bowls and cats are already providing all the info they need.

Where do you think that idea to put the cat out at night comes from? They have to report to the mother ship about their time in captivity!

Steve

[scrumpyjack]

I am open minded about this but mass hallucination is a well known phenomenon

https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Mass ... 0phenomena.

It seems curious that these things occur in the US far more than elsewhere.
Perhaps as in Star Trek, all aliens speak English (with an american accent), hence they come to the US rather than elsewhere!

Possibly the broadcasts of Star Trek episodes have been picked up by extraterrestrials and that has prompted them to visit? Oh wait, that was the plot of Galaxy Quest, a really excellent film.

Personally I concur with Stephen Hawking who thought it was very ill advised to stir up contact with aliens. If they come they would, by definition, be scientifically far further advanced than us, and the laws of natural selection would mean a considerable danger of them wanting to take over the planet and get rid of us human infestations.

[odysseus2000]

What I find rather significant is the fact that many years ago, we had all these reports of sightings, yet today, with everyone holding a smartphone with excellent camera and video, we see pretty much nothing.

Besides, what interest would our society hold for any aliens? Even if extraterrestrials want to know more about us, why would they hover above the clouds in humming saucers with weird flashing lights, when their nanotech is probably so advanced that various ants, goldfish in bowls and cats are already providing all the info they need.

Where do you think that idea to put the cat out at night comes from? They have to report to the mother ship about their time in captivity!

Steve

Clearly if aliens exist & want to be seen they could be, but if they don’t want to be seen they would be advanced enough to remain as fuzzy images. We have stealth aircraft now, tanks with side cameras that feed a screen on the other side to make them appear part of the landscape. If aliens are more advanced then probably they have better stealth technology.

I have no idea why aliens would be here, but perhaps to study us, or for food & other organic stuff not otherwise available in this solar system.

For now I am just trying to reconcile experimental data with interpretation & not worry about anything else.

I set out in my journey in this believing it was all fake, but after over a year of intense study I can not find any way, save for a mass international hoax. The more I study the more it seems real.

Regards,

[odysseus2000]

I am open minded about this but mass hallucination is a well known phenomenon

https://psychology.fandom.com/wiki/Mass ... 0phenomena.

It seems curious that these things occur in the US far more than elsewhere.
Perhaps as in Star Trek, all aliens speak English (with an american accent), hence they come to the US rather than elsewhere!

Possibly the broadcasts of Star Trek episodes have been picked up by extraterrestrials and that has prompted them to visit? Oh wait, that was the plot of Galaxy Quest, a really excellent film.

Personally I concur with Stephen Hawking who thought it was very ill advised to stir up contact with aliens. If they come they would, by definition, be scientifically far further advanced than us, and the laws of natural selection would mean a considerable danger of them wanting to take over the planet and get rid of us human infestations.

UAP phenomenon exist everywhere, most governments have or had secret programs. Uk declassified reports indicate many thousands of uap in uk skies.

What ever Hawkins thought it looks to be too late, aliens or some new & unknown natural phenomenon are here.

Regards,

[Itsallaguess]

Can anyone give a rational explanation based on currently known physics.

No matter what the explanation, I just want to say that I'm glad that we live in a world where we don't know all the answers, and that there's enough mystery in enough interesting areas to keep us all wondering just that little bit...




Source - https://shortquotes.cc/arthur-c-clarke-quotes-either-we-are-alone/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[CliffEdge]

Maybe they're here to see if any civilization has solved the problems of self driving cars?

[XFool]

For now I am just trying to reconcile experimental data with interpretation & not worry about anything else.

I set out in my journey in this believing it was all fake, but after over a year of intense study I can not find any way, save for a mass international hoax. The more I study the more it seems real.

I rather suspect there are lots of potential tricks & traps awaiting people who study abnormal phenomenon. Many of these being to do with the vagaries of human perception and psychology.

To give just one very simplistic example - Look at a typical, classic type, UFO sighting human report: "I saw a UFO. It was a bright light in the sky, it must have been travelling at, ooh at least 25,000 mph and I reckon it was at a height of around 2 miles. But moving like that is impossible! It's against the laws of physics - I can only think it must have been from another world."

And we're off! It's now been framed as a mysterious "UFO" phenomenon and we must now consider explanations in terms of little green men etc.

But wait. It was described as a "UFO" (now UAP - better) so it has not been identified. So... if not identified you don't know what it is, so you can't know its size, so you cannot know how far away it was, so you cannot know or have any idea what "speed" it was moving at. Now that's the "laws of physics"!

So what have we got? A "bright light in the sky" - which may or may not have been moving. That is no explanation, of course. I don't mean it to be. But do you see (some) of the problems in this area?

Long, long ago I reckon I (retrospectively?) 'identified' a UFO siting for someone, this was in the 1970s. Someone I knew at the time told a tale how he and a friend were camping out in the Nevada region of the USA. He woke up at night to go to the loo and afterwards paused to look at the magnificent night sky. As he did so something passed overhead, he felt it was quite low, a bit like an aircraft but not and it had a sort of glow behind it but was otherwise seemingly silent. He asked what I thought: At the time the only thing I could come up with was possibly some kind of target drone on a test flight at night.

Nowadays one would of course jump quickly on the suggestion of a night test flight of an early cruise missile. We will never know...

[stevensfo]

For now I am just trying to reconcile experimental data with interpretation & not worry about anything else.

I set out in my journey in this believing it was all fake, but after over a year of intense study I can not find any way, save for a mass international hoax. The more I study the more it seems real.

I rather suspect there are lots of potential tricks & traps awaiting people who study abnormal phenomenon. Many of these being to do with the vagaries of human perception and psychology.

To give just one very simplistic example - Look at a typical, classic type, UFO sighting human report: "I saw a UFO. It was a bright light in the sky, it must have been travelling at, ooh at least 25,000 mph and I reckon it was at a height of around 2 miles. But moving like that is impossible! It's against the laws of physics - I can only think it must have been from another world."

And we're off! It's now been framed as a mysterious "UFO" phenomenon and we must now consider explanations in terms of little green men etc.

But wait. It was described as a "UFO" (now UAP - better) so it has not been identified. So... if not identified you don't know what it is, so you can't know its size, so you cannot know how far away it was, so you cannot know or have any idea what "speed" it was moving at. Now that's the "laws of physics"!

So what have we got? A "bright light in the sky" - which may or may not have been moving. That is no explanation, of course. I don't mean it to be. But do you see (some) of the problems in this area?

Long, long ago I reckon I (retrospectively?) 'identified' a UFO siting for someone, this was in the 1970s. Someone I knew at the time told a tale how he and a friend were camping out in the Nevada region of the USA. He woke up at night to go to the loo and afterwards paused to look at the magnificent night sky. As he did so something passed overhead, he felt it was quite low, a bit like an aircraft but not and it had a sort of glow behind it but was otherwise seemingly silent. He asked what I thought: At the time the only thing I could come up with was possibly some kind of target drone on a test flight at night.

Nowadays one would of course jump quickly on the suggestion of a night test flight of an early cruise missile. We will never know...

As he did so something passed overhead, he felt it was quite low, a bit like an aircraft but not and it had a sort of glow behind it but was otherwise seemingly silent.

Fireflies? We have them in Italy in the summer. Large, harmless, very quiet and have a glow. The enzyme producing the light is called luciferase. They usually fly in a rather haphazard way, but occasionally in a straight line overhead. If you don't know about them, they could easily be mistaken for much higher and larger objects.

Steve

[odysseus2000]

Yes, many things could be misidentified, that is why I am interested in credible witness like military pilots whose observations are confirmed by other eyeballs & with radar & preferably other wavelengths too.

Some unidentified object seen by a pilot trained to identify things, then moving in ways that current planes can not. There are some examples & suggestions that the military have much better data, but what has been released is inconsistent with current science as I understand it.

The big recent news was of medical changes in people who claimed to have been abducted as measured by investigating medics. These medical results show that something unexpected happened to these folk giving their stories more weight. If this is true it is one of the most amazing discoveries ever made.

Regards,

[9873210]

What I find rather significant is the fact that many years ago, we had all these reports of sightings, yet today, with everyone holding a smartphone with excellent camera and video, we see pretty much nothing.

https://xkcd.com/license.html

[odysseus2000]

As he did so something passed overhead, he felt it was quite low, a bit like an aircraft but not and it had a sort of glow behind it but was otherwise seemingly silent.

Fireflies? We have them in Italy in the summer. Large, harmless, very quiet and have a glow. The enzyme producing the light is called luciferase. They usually fly in a rather haphazard way, but occasionally in a straight line overhead. If you don't know about them, they could easily be mistaken for much higher and larger objects.

Steve

In terms of pilot sightings, they are reporting structures that are about 17 m (50 ft across) and capable of near instant acceleration to extremely high velocity and the ability to then stop similarly quickly. Some fireflies!

Regards,

[GoSeigen]

As he did so something passed overhead, he felt it was quite low, a bit like an aircraft but not and it had a sort of glow behind it but was otherwise seemingly silent.

Fireflies? We have them in Italy in the summer. Large, harmless, very quiet and have a glow. The enzyme producing the light is called luciferase. They usually fly in a rather haphazard way, but occasionally in a straight line overhead. If you don't know about them, they could easily be mistaken for much higher and larger objects.

Steve

In terms of pilot sightings, they are reporting structures that are about 17 m (50 ft across) and capable of near instant acceleration to extremely high velocity and the ability to then stop similarly quickly. Some fireflies!

Regards,

What's the point of the OP when your mind is already made up?

I suggest you go and visit one of these 15.24m (50ft) "structures" and post some decent photos on here and we'll give our "scientific" opinions!

If the UK had 600 murders per year and not a single body found I might also believe in alien abductions.


GS

[Itsallaguess]

The big recent news was of medical changes in people who claimed to have been abducted as measured by investigating medics.

These medical results show that something unexpected happened to these folk giving their stories more weight.

If this is true it is one of the most amazing discoveries ever made.

So if we consider the number of global 'unexplained medical changes in people' at any given time Ody, what percentage of those global cases are also likely to be associated with claims of alien abduction?

Do you think it's a high number, or a low number...?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess *

* (Interested in this thread, but convinced that at some point in it, Ody will claim that if his theory is correct then it's clear that the aliens will want to contact the most intelligent human on the planet, and there can be no doubt that this will be Elon Musk, and the effect that will then have on the market value of Tesla is likely to be stratospheric, what with the swapping of alien battery technology etc...etc... )

[servodude]

The big recent news was of medical changes in people who claimed to have been abducted as measured by investigating medics.

These medical results show that something unexpected happened to these folk giving their stories more weight.

If this is true it is one of the most amazing discoveries ever made.

So if we consider the number of global 'unexplained medical changes in people' at any given time Ody, what percentage of those global cases are also likely to be associated with claims of alien abduction?

Do you think it's a high number, or a low number...?

Cheers,

Itsallaguess *

* (Interested in this thread, but convinced that at some point in it, Ody will claim that if his theory is correct then it's clear that the aliens will want to contact the most intelligent human on the planet, and there can be no doubt that this will be Elon Musk, and the effect that will then have on the market value of Tesla is likely to be stratospheric, what with the swapping of alien battery technology etc...etc... )

I wonder if the "medical changes" in those claiming to have been abducted bear any similarity to those observed at the onset of delusion?