The Lemon Fool

Interesting video on sand batteries (13:18):

https://youtu.be/KVqHYNE2QwE?si=MXmqieHEk9yQgO6C

Look like they are becoming practical options for residential use.

Regards,

odysseus2000 wrote:Interesting video on sand batteries (13:18):

https://youtu.be/KVqHYNE2QwE

Look like they are becoming practical options for residential use.

Regards,

There, link sanitised for you.

odysseus2000 wrote:Interesting video on sand batteries (13:18):

https://youtu.be/KVqHYNE2QwE?si=MXmqieHEk9yQgO6C

Look like they are becoming practical options for residential use.

Regards,

Back of napkin, sounds to me that a 3x3x4 metres buried sand tank along with 30Kw solar panels to heat that could yield winter 3 months of continual 6Kw/h home heating. Front load cost of around 10 years. For me pay as you go (grid supplied) energy/heating appears to remain the more preferable choice. But interesting none the less. Thanks fr the pointer.

1nvest wrote:

odysseus2000 wrote:Interesting video on sand batteries (13:18):

https://youtu.be/KVqHYNE2QwE?si=MXmqieHEk9yQgO6C

Look like they are becoming practical options for residential use.

Regards,

Back of napkin, sounds to me that a 3x3x4 metres buried sand tank along with 30Kw solar panels to heat that could yield winter 3 months of continual 6Kw/h home heating. Front load cost of around 10 years. For me pay as you go (grid supplied) energy/heating appears to remain the more preferable choice. But interesting none the less. Thanks fr the pointer.

It beginning to look as though large scale energy storage might actually work with the low technology of thermal stores. It will all hinge on how effective we can make the insulation.

It might even lead to the general public coming to understand the concept of entropy.

Your 6Kw/h units grate though!

Mike4 wrote:Your 6Kw/h units grate though!

With a oldie, that in the thick of winter requires a 3 bar (kw) fire in just a single room, and even in a modest home heating can easily amount. Reception, livingroom, dinning-room, kitchen, bathroom, library, utilityroom, TV-room, giggleroom (well another TV room dedicated to the Parliament channel), gamesroom, boogieroom, munchieroom, merrimentroom. Excluding the conservatory and indoor swimming pool room.

1nvest wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Your 6Kw/h units grate though!

With a oldie, that in the thick of winter requires a 3 bar (kw) fire in just a single room, and even in a modest home heating can easily amount. Reception, livingroom, dinning-room, kitchen, bathroom, library, utilityroom, TV-room, giggleroom (well another TV room dedicated to the Parliament channel), gamesroom, boogieroom, munchieroom, merrimentroom. Excluding the conservatory and indoor swimming pool room.

No it was your "Kw/h" that grates, not the number of them!

I'm tempted to ask how many Kw/h is your 3 bar fire over say, two hours?

Mind your case. "Kw/h" is far beyond fubar on so many different levels.

It was interesting to hear Drake Landing Solar Community mentioned early in the video...

It's in a satellite community of Calgary, about 40km away. Yesterday it was in the national news because the community is considering moving to natural gas. Indeed some residents already have.

The context isn't that the technology doesn't work, because history shows it was successful. But residents are now impacted by the early failure of some system components and the high cost, service disruption and technical uncertainty of replacing them to restore the effectiveness of the system.

The lessons would seem to be:

• Components don't always last as long as you're promised - especially bespoke items used in novel applications
• But you have to have reasonable about how long these things last. An owner is quoted expressing disappointment at not achieving 25-30 years, but there's no indication whether that is an unfulfilled commitment or an unreasonable desire.
• Be prepared with a backup plan - which the community has always had, returning to gas heating if necessary
• Long-term viability of a communal energy system is dependent on the continued support of the non-residential stakeholders, whose interests may shift over time

Greg

9873210 wrote:Mind your case. "Kw/h" is far beyond fubar on so many different levels.

K is Kelvins - a measure of Temp equal to Celsius.
w is erm, don't think a lower W is anything.

So Kw/h is a change in temp at the rate of w degrees per hour.

Lower case k is the abbrev for kilo - ie thousands (not to be confused with k which is the Boltsman constant used to determine K.
Upper cas W is Watts, which is what we want.

However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what they meant.

vandefrosty wrote:It was interesting to hear Drake Landing Solar Community mentioned early in the video...

It's in a satellite community of Calgary, about 40km away. Yesterday it was in the national news because the community is considering moving to natural gas. Indeed some residents already have.

The context isn't that the technology doesn't work, because history shows it was successful.

Another factor is surely that Alberta has a ton of stranded gas so it's insanely cheap there, like <C$0.01 per kWh of gas.

Hallucigenia wrote:Another factor is surely that Alberta has a ton of stranded gas so it's insanely cheap there, like <C$0.01 per kWh of gas.

I wish...

Gas may or may not be stranded in Alberta, leading to low prices - though I don't think we're currently awash in unshippable gas - but these are never fully passed on to consumers...

Our latest gas bill levies a variable gas cost of CAD 0.6c/kWh, but multiplies it by 730% to set the final amount:

• Gas cost: 100%
• Admin charges: +100%
• Delivery cost: +315%
• Carbon Tax: +200%
• Plus GST (VAT) + 5% of all the foregoing

So the final amount is CAD 4.6c/kWh.

This doesn't feel insanely cheap, at least here, though the comparison may be different with other jurisdictions.

DrFfybes wrote:
However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what they meant.

How many people were posting about Kw/h? I only noticed one...

Mike4 wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:
However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what they meant.

How many people were posting about Kw/h? I only noticed one...

If no one complains the descriptivists will take over, everything will mean anything, and we'll literally be murdered in our sleep.

Mike4 wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:
However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what they meant.

How many people were posting about Kw/h? I only noticed one...

However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what he/she/they meant.

Better?

vandefrosty wrote:Our latest gas bill levies a variable gas cost of CAD 0.6c/kWh, but multiplies it by 730% to set the final amount:
So the final amount is CAD 4.6c/kWh.

This doesn't feel insanely cheap, at least here, though the comparison may be different with other jurisdictions.

Fair enough, I hadn't sussed the multiplier thing. But compare with current UK price cap (effectively the set price) of 7.42p/kWh (=CAD 12.72c/KWh) and 29.6p/day standing charge which effectively increases the /kWh cost by 10-15% for the average house. So we're about 3x Alberta gas price at the moment - and a year ago it was 17p/kWh for gas, so CAD 29.2c/kWh at current exchange rates.

DrFfybes wrote:

Mike4 wrote:
How many people were posting about Kw/h? I only noticed one...

However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what he/she/they meant.

Better?

By the way guys, how did your auditions for the part of Science officer on Star Trek go?

Steve

stevensfo wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:
However let's be honest, it was ^&*%* obvious what he/she/they meant.

Better?

By the way guys, how did your auditions for the part of Science officer on Star Trek go?

Steve

Won't know for a few hundred years. But we might get there if enough people know the difference between energy and what-ever-the-h*** that other thing was.

How's your audition for the dark ages?

9873210 wrote:

stevensfo wrote:

By the way guys, how did your auditions for the part of Science officer on Star Trek go?

Steve

Won't know for a few hundred years. But we might get there if enough people know the difference between energy and what-ever-the-h*** that other thing was.

How's your audition for the dark ages?

For Pete's sake! It was meant to be a light-hearted dig at two posters who have a sense of humour.


Steve

stevensfo wrote:

9873210 wrote:
Won't know for a few hundred years. But we might get there if enough people know the difference between energy and what-ever-the-h*** that other thing was.

How's your audition for the dark ages?

For Pete's sake! It was meant to be a light-hearted dig at two posters who have a sense of humour.


Steve

For Pete's sake! It was meant to be a light-hearted dig ...

GrahamPlatt wrote:

odysseus2000 wrote:Interesting video on sand batteries (13:18):

https://youtu.be/KVqHYNE2QwE

Look like they are becoming practical options for residential use.

Regards,

There, link sanitised for you.

The dude has misunderstandings about basic science concepts like "sand holds on to heat remarkably well" (it doesn't), contradicted just a few seconds later. The sand thing looks like a scam to me, he barely mentioned the insulation needed, and the stress on key parts from the high temperatures must surely demand higher maintenance than an equivalent capacity water system.

Not a convincing video for me (it's mainly there to sell the advertised product).

GS