Church of England

[bruncher]

I realise religion seen by many here as somewhat wacky and outdated. But I feel little sad about the imminent extinction of the church of England. Having been brought up in it (and methodist), and attended on and off over my adult life.

The decline now seems certain given the attendences in the pews are largely very elderly, except family services, which often I think is basically childminding. Once this generation passes on, I guess churches will convert to housing and museums.

I think secularisation is largely the reason, with society at large being un-religious, and un-churched now. But the Liberal bishops and Welby have to take blame too.

If the bloke/woman at the front thinks it's clap trap, why should I bother? Indeed.

The woke/climate change/lgbt+/politically correct version of christianity is a turn off for those in the pews. I think even if they don't believe themselves, they'd be better preaching a biblical christianity, if they were genuinely interested in saving the CoE.

As it is I guess extinction in a generation is inevitable ,and the bishops know this so just hanging on to their palaces and pensions long enough before the game's up. Do you agree, or even care?

The secularisation of the church is, for me, the problem. I don't want to listen to preaching that is trying to be 'relevant' by referring to some popular TV show that the congregation is assumed to be familiar with. In a church I want to hear a spiritual discourse - hard to define, but I know when I hear it. And I want informed adults reading the lesson, not children or illiterates.

[kernelthread]

The church is still trying to do what it's there for - preaching the messages that those in charge want the masses to believe. In the old days that was "The King is God's representative on Earth" and general submission to authority. These days they add the "woke" stuff - "tolerance" etc. (of course only the right people are tolerated) and de-emphasize God. But now it's redundant because people get those messages from the mass media and the internet so they don't need to go to church and see it as a waste of time.

[bungeejumper]

....These days [the church] add the "woke" stuff - "tolerance" etc. (of course only the right people are tolerated) and de-emphasize God. But now it's redundant because people get those messages from the mass media and the internet so they don't need to go to church and see it as a waste of time.

Hmmm, you're losing me. Are you saying that the mass media have usurped the church's traditional role as the guardians of morality and the protectors of royal privilege?

I'm no kind of a christian (I have no beliefs either way, but I do believe in humanity). A large part of the reason why I don't often watch TV is that so much of it is vapid, aimlessly hedonistic, violent, and generally riddled with all the stuff that the ten commandments tried so hard to banish because they were bad ideas in the late bronze age, and they're not much better now.

What would a Wednesday night be without a few grisly murders, an hour of Celebrity Love Island, a rape drama, another long hour of some cheap and predictable hospital drama, or (yawn) all of these things at once on East Enders? More interesting, probably.

What could the church do to get its congregations back? Well, until the Reformation it was normal for churches to serve beer. It didn't teach the medieval yokels anything much, but at least it got them together to socialise, and maybe that wasn't such a bad thing?

BJ

[servodude]

....These days [the church] add the "woke" stuff - "tolerance" etc. (of course only the right people are tolerated) and de-emphasize God. But now it's redundant because people get those messages from the mass media and the internet so they don't need to go to church and see it as a waste of time.

Hmmm, you're losing me. Are you saying that the mass media have usurped the church's traditional role as the guardians of morality and the protectors of royal privilege?

I'm no kind of a christian (I have no beliefs either way, but I do believe in humanity). A large part of the reason why I don't often watch TV is that so much of it is vapid, aimlessly hedonistic, violent, and generally riddled with all the stuff that the ten commandments tried so hard to banish because they were bad ideas in the late bronze age, and they're not much better now.

What would a Wednesday night be without a few grisly murders, an hour of Celebrity Love Island, a rape drama, another long hour of some cheap and predictable hospital drama, or (yawn) all of these things at once on East Enders? More interesting, probably.

What could the church do to get its congregations back? Well, until the Reformation it was normal for churches to serve beer. It didn't teach the medieval yokels anything much, but at least it got them together to socialise, and maybe that wasn't such a bad thing?

BJ

and wasn't that guy.... you know the one, hippy Jewish chap.. with the woodworking thing!?
Anyways wasn't he like reallly in to "tolerance" like in a big way

He was all "she's cool... don't worry she's a prostitue" and "hey leper hang with me" or "don't worry guys I've got some fish and bread to go round... more wine?"

You can say whatever you want about the successive muppets that have enacted atrocities in his name but the guy himself was a super tolerant dude

...unless you were a money lender or obscenely rich obvs.

[kernelthread]

....These days [the church] add the "woke" stuff - "tolerance" etc. (of course only the right people are tolerated) and de-emphasize God. But now it's redundant because people get those messages from the mass media and the internet so they don't need to go to church and see it as a waste of time.

Hmmm, you're losing me. Are you saying that the mass media have usurped the church's traditional role as the guardians of morality and the protectors of royal privilege?

"Morality" is a loaded word. The church was one of the ways the people in charge used to get the masses to believe what they wanted them to believe. Now they have the mass media for that. You can argue about whether the mass media are guardians of "morality" or not, but they determine the acceptable range of opinions. Express any opinion outside that range and you get ridiculed or labelled a "conspiracy theorist", "loon", "far right" or any other pejorative term you can think of. You also run the risk of losing your job, being shunned or even being prosecuted and thrown in jail.

The church is still trying to remain relevant in this climate. They realise the old messages don't sell so well these days and are now pushing the new message. But the people who believe in the new message don't have much use for the church, so it's gradually disappearing.

[Harry23]

The church is still trying to remain relevant in this climate. They realise the old messages don't sell so well these days and are now pushing the new message. But the people who believe in the new message don't have much use for the church, so it's gradually disappearing.

Quite. And it's even more of a challenge for the C of E because they are so visibly split over many issues, especially on an international scale of the Anglican communion where for example the African dioceses, evangelicals and anglo-catholics are holding a traditionalist line compared with the liberal church's progressivism. It's all the archbishop can do to keep the church from splitting up. But perhaps the fact that it's still the national church keeps them together, just about. The synods and Lambeth conferences are always a rather painful outpouring of the schisms bubbling under the surface of the broad church - reminiscent of the infighting for the soul of our 'broad church' political parties.