"Allahu Akbar"

[WickedLester]

Yes but which god? There are thousands of religions and most think their god is the only real one and all the others are heretical and to be stamped out. The chances are overwhelmingly that your belief is in the wrong deity. Probably worse than being a misguided agnostic?

I believe in God.

Isn't that good enough?

[ReformedCharacter]

Someone in my family took part in the D-Day landings. He said it was surprising how many non-believers started to pray as they approached the beach.

RC

[Tedx]

Someone in my family took part in the D-Day landings. He said it was surprising how many non-believers started to pray as they approached the beach.

RC

Same as old folk suddenly going to church. Its just an insurance policy / comfort blanket.

[bungeejumper]

Same as old folk suddenly going to church. Its just an insurance policy / comfort blanket.

Or, as the old student joke used to go, cramming for finals.

BJ

[WickedLester]

"Allahu Akbar" translates as "God is Great". That may be true but he ain't half as great as a council house and child benefit for 9 kids. Narmeen bruv.

[1nvest]

Ricky Gervais said 'There are over 3000 gods. You follow one of them. I follow one less.

In the name of one of those gods has historically killed far more people than cigarettes. Should be outright banned. Cults one and all.

My god is better than your god na-nana-naa-nah childish chants/taunts by insignificant specs on a insignificant spec (world) in our galaxy - that is a insignificant spec in the universe. Much like fleas arguing over which flea owns the dog.

[gryffron]

As society developed those in power whether chieftains/kings or high priests had a vested interest in keeping good order since maintenance of that order kept them in power. Religion was the marketing tool for maintaining that good order backed up by threats of punishment in this or the next life if you disobeyed the rules of the god(s). Religions and the moral codes they promoted were the creation of human societies.

But the Chinese managed to have moral codes without gods. Despite no-one to punish them, the Chinese developed a stable and (mostly) peaceful society. And without the need to launch crusades to convert everyone else.

Compare with, for example, the Arabs. Single powerful God. Endless strife about who worships him correctly.
Indeed, European christians managed several centuries of wars over the same matter.

Gryff

[ursaminortaur]

As society developed those in power whether chieftains/kings or high priests had a vested interest in keeping good order since maintenance of that order kept them in power. Religion was the marketing tool for maintaining that good order backed up by threats of punishment in this or the next life if you disobeyed the rules of the god(s). Religions and the moral codes they promoted were the creation of human societies.

But the Chinese managed to have moral codes without gods. Despite no-one to punish them, the Chinese developed a stable and (mostly) peaceful society. And without the need to launch crusades to convert everyone else.

Compare with, for example, the Arabs. Single powerful God. Endless strife about who worships him correctly.
Indeed, European christians managed several centuries of wars over the same matter.

Gryff

The Chinese emperor's rule was always under the "mandate of heaven" hence all the various changes of dynasty through its long history were religious wars. In some ways this was similar to what happened in the middle east (if you ignore the invasions from Europe which were the Christian crusades) as different Islamic empires succeeded one another. China broke apart on a number of occasions but unlike Europe after the fall of the western Roman empire a new dynasty would arise claiming the "mandate of heaven" and reconquer/rebuild it sometimes even extending the empire to some extent.

However China pretty much reached the limits of how big a territory could be centrally controlled (rather as Rome had when Hadrian decided to build his wall in Britain and other defensive barriers, Limes, were built defending other empire borders). Western europe in contrast split into a miriad of tribal territories after the fall of Rome which even when they later converted to Christianity and were thus supposedly united under Catholicism still fought each other incessantly - the later split creating Protestantism didn't really change that much (except internally to each territory where the ruler either became Protestant or remained Catholic and tended to persecute those of the opposite creed in his territory).

[CliffEdge]

Did God create satan?

[kempiejon]

The big man created all of the universe, 6 days I think was estimated time for delivery though actual dates are unclear. After he'd breathed human life into clay He ordered the angels to bow down to Adam one of them refused, Stan the man.

[ReformedCharacter]

If you take the"omnipotence" position then he must have
If you take some other position you're not really engaging in the traditional Judeo-Christian "God /Satan" dichotomy

In Christianity, the Devil is the personification of evil. He is traditionally held to have rebelled against God in an attempt to become equal to God himself. He is said to be a fallen angel, who was expelled from Heaven at the beginning of time, before God created the material world, and is in constant opposition to God...Early scholars discussed the role of the devil. Scholars influenced by neoplatonic cosmology, like Origen and Pseudo-Dionysius, portrayed the devil as representing deficiency and emptiness, the entity most remote from the divine. According to Augustine of Hippo, the realm of the devil is not nothingness, but an inferior realm standing in opposition to God. The standard Medieval depiction of the devil goes back to Gregory the Great. He integrated the devil, as the first creation of God, into the Christian angelic hierarchy as the highest of the angels (either a cherub or a seraph) who fell far, into the depths of hell, and became the leader of demons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity

RC

[CliffEdge]

If you take the"omnipotence" position then he must have
If you take some other position you're not really engaging in the traditional Judeo-Christian "God /Satan" dichotomy

In Christianity, the Devil is the personification of evil. He is traditionally held to have rebelled against God in an attempt to become equal to God himself. He is said to be a fallen angel, who was expelled from Heaven at the beginning of time, before God created the material world, and is in constant opposition to God...Early scholars discussed the role of the devil. Scholars influenced by neoplatonic cosmology, like Origen and Pseudo-Dionysius, portrayed the devil as representing deficiency and emptiness, the entity most remote from the divine. According to Augustine of Hippo, the realm of the devil is not nothingness, but an inferior realm standing in opposition to God. The standard Medieval depiction of the devil goes back to Gregory the Great. He integrated the devil, as the first creation of God, into the Christian angelic hierarchy as the highest of the angels (either a cherub or a seraph) who fell far, into the depths of hell, and became the leader of demons.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity

RC

So God created satan? Saw how bad he was at this creation lark. Went on to create the material world, nevertheless. Pretty incompetent (at best) then isn't he.

You'd have to be insane to believe that nonsense and then worship such a God.

[servodude]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Devil_in_Christianity

RC

So God created satan? Saw how bad he was at this creation lark. Went on to create the material world, nevertheless. Pretty incompetent (at best) then isn't he.

You'd have to be insane to believe that nonsense and then worship such a God.

You are not wrong!!! (Welcome to your stopped clock moment?)
The whole Satan thing is MENTAL!
BUT.. It did give us the Lucifer comics which are really very good... or go back and start with Sandman (surely there must be some upside price wise to the Gaiman betrayal of our support?)

[ReformedCharacter]

So God created satan? Saw how bad he was at this creation lark. Went on to create the material world, nevertheless. Pretty incompetent (at best) then isn't he.

You'd have to be insane to believe that nonsense and then worship such a God.

These are very old debates which you choose to characterise as cheaply as possible. There's plenty more intellectual and informative discourse available if you are actually interested in why people believe what they do but I think you prefer to make cheap shots instead. As I posted on another thread, try Carl Jung if you actually want to try to understand why people think the way they do. Since so many people profess religious belief you might find it worthwhile trying to find out why they do rather than insulting them.

RC

[Gerry557]

Obviously God exists and he's British


https://youtu.be/Scz6zd1WDRs?si=G_Wc1CSvJhWBsQHH

[CliffEdge]

So God created satan? Saw how bad he was at this creation lark. Went on to create the material world, nevertheless. Pretty incompetent (at best) then isn't he.

You'd have to be insane to believe that nonsense and then worship such a God.

These are very old debates which you choose to characterise as cheaply as possible. There's plenty more intellectual and informative discourse available if you are actually interested in why people believe what they do but I think you prefer to make cheap shots instead. As I posted on another thread, try Carl Jung if you actually want to try to understand why people think the way they do. Since so many people profess religious belief you might find it worthwhile trying to find out why they do rather than insulting them.

RC

Sophistry won't cut it, sonny. But hey look, I don't wanna rain on your comfort blanket so I'll bow out.

[ReformedCharacter]

Sophistry won't cut it, sonny. But hey look, I don't wanna rain on your comfort blanket so I'll bow out.

Sensible, you're just making a fool of yourself.

RC

[1nvest]

So God created satan? Saw how bad he was at this creation lark. Went on to create the material world, nevertheless. Pretty incompetent (at best) then isn't he.

You'd have to be insane to believe that nonsense and then worship such a God.

Bored, a creation for entertainment and boy is it entertaining. Where for instance on a spec of dust on the outskirts of just one galaxy (Milky Way) there are beings called mankind that war with each other over versions of their interpretation of god. Yes mankind is insane - you only have to look at electoral systems and who are elected as leaders to see that.