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The Hand of God

Religion and Philosophy
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we are introducing this on a trial basis and that respect for other's views is important e.g. phrases like "your imaginary friend" or "you will go to hell" are not appropriate
taken2often
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Re: The Hand of God

#373207

Postby taken2often » January 4th, 2021, 11:33 pm

It seems that no one can accept the concept of one man standing between two corrupt parties. Chosen by a large number of people because they have lived with this corruption for years People go into the Senate or Congress with the best of intentions and are then corrupted. They go in with modest incomes and come out or are still in as Multi Millionair's. The Clinton's, Obama's, Biden's and many others. The process on how to do it is very simple and interesting.

You should only judge Trump on what has been done over these 4 years and not his past.

I stated it before, over the four years I have found no action by Trump that was against the interests of the majority of the United States people. You and half the United States do not have a clue about what he has achieved, as you are not allowed to be told that. The news always has to negative that is all that will be published or aired and its the same here. You have been conditioned to dislike , you repeat old news, if it is damaging because it is run out regularly, as is racial victim profiling to get the Democrat vote. Recently they have been dangling Reparation for slavery as an incentive to toe the line. It will just go away now that the vote is done.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373368

Postby BellaHubby » January 5th, 2021, 10:53 am

taken2often wrote:It seems that no one can accept the concept of one man standing between two corrupt parties. Chosen by a large number of people because they have lived with this corruption for years People go into the Senate or Congress with the best of intentions and are then corrupted. They go in with modest incomes and come out or are still in as Multi Millionair's. The Clinton's, Obama's, Biden's and many others. The process on how to do it is very simple and interesting.

You should only judge Trump on what has been done over these 4 years and not his past.

I stated it before, over the four years I have found no action by Trump that was against the interests of the majority of the United States people. You and half the United States do not have a clue about what he has achieved, as you are not allowed to be told that. The news always has to negative that is all that will be published or aired and its the same here. You have been conditioned to dislike , you repeat old news, if it is damaging because it is run out regularly, as is racial victim profiling to get the Democrat vote. Recently they have been dangling Reparation for slavery as an incentive to toe the line. It will just go away now that the vote is done.

If Trump had acted with a degree of class and dignity, he might be better judged,

If I gave you £100,000, but hurled abuse and insults in your face, dumped a pile of manure at your door and announced to the world that I'd slept with your wife and falsely accused you of having a drug addiction, would you just judge me on the £100,000 gift?

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Re: The Hand of God

#373423

Postby bungeejumper » January 5th, 2021, 12:51 pm

taken2often wrote:I stated it before, over the four years I have found no action by Trump that was against the interests of the majority of the United States people. You and half the United States do not have a clue about what he has achieved, as you are not allowed to be told that. The news always has to negative that is all that will be published or aired and its the same here.

Well, what's on the record today is that your man has actively demanded on tape that the head of the voting process in Georgia should deliberately falsify the November election result by "finding" 11,800 votes that weren't discovered in the original count, or in two additional recounts. And that he felt able to personally threaten that man, and his lawyer, with criminal actions because their three official vote checks had produced no basis for agreeing with him. You don't have to recount the votes, he said, you just have to "recalculate" the results you already have. ;)

Mr Trump is quite right about the criminal actions. Ordering a state official to pervert the result of an election is both a state and a federal offence which is punishable by an unlimited fine and a maximum of five years in jail. Not even a presidential self-pardon could get him off both of those charges, although he might possibly slip past the federal one.

Georgia goes to the polls today, and Mr T has opened the proceedings by threatening his own vice president if he doesn't lead the Senate campaign to get the November election result discounted. Trump's main Senate supporters, including Mitch McConnell, deserted to the side of sanity weeks ago. The man has not just run out of friends - he's finally abandoned what remained of his moral compass, and he seems to have no idea why anybody else should ever have bothered with one?

God is going to have his work out turning this sinner into the new salvation of the world. You'll understand that one day, but not for a while yet, I fear. Meanwhile, my bag of popcorn is still on the table for tomorrow.

BJ

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Re: The Hand of God

#373465

Postby taken2often » January 5th, 2021, 3:23 pm

What has class or dignity to do with anything. He is not there to be Mr Nice Guy. The States were in a desperate state by the old ways. But you are right he has done a very bad thing indeed. Promises Made Promises Kept. How despicable can you get, breaking the Politician code. Lie through your teeth to get in, then forget it.

His only main failure was Obama Care due to John McCain who scuppered it at the last moment, due to his hatred of Trump. The hatred was justified the action was not. The Republicans had been for years against Obama Care and had promised to do away with it first opportunity. Personal satisfaction more important than the people. Sounds like a politician to me.

As always the segment you are given is not the whole story. Although I have not listened to the conversation you can be assured you only heard what they wanted you to hear. The full transcript would but it into context, like the Ukranian telephone call. The very fact that the call was released tells you about the character of those involved. I think Trump is now threatening to stand against the Governor in 2022. That would be fun.

As to the Rats leaving what they think is a sinking ship, all they had to do was say nothing and wait for the events to unfold. The thing is we do not know why this posturing, its a signal to somebody. They keep trying to ignore the Constitution rules relating to voting. Still no one has been allowed an examination of actual votes, strange that, if they are all Kosher.

An official examination of the election by the Senate and Congress combined, may still happen if enough votes do not accept the current position. If they do not allow this and massive proof appears after inauguration lots of egg on lots of faces. It would only take about 10 days. We wait and see.

I have enjoyed this post so far and I await the Hand of God to strike or not. Fingers Crossed

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Re: The Hand of God

#373475

Postby XFool » January 5th, 2021, 3:50 pm

taken2often wrote:An official examination of the election by the Senate and Congress combined, may still happen if enough votes do not accept the current position. If they do not allow this and massive proof appears after inauguration lots of egg on lots of faces. It would only take about 10 days. We wait and see.

Ah, I see. Like many apocalyptic predictions, the 'deadline' will turn out, in the event, to be flexible.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373476

Postby bungeejumper » January 5th, 2021, 3:50 pm

taken2often wrote:As always the segment you are given is not the whole story. Although I have not listened to the conversation you can be assured you only heard what they wanted you to hear.

Any special reason why you didn't want to hear it? Maybe you'd be in a more informed position if you did?
The full transcript would but it into context, like the Ukranian telephone call. The very fact that the call was released tells you about the character of those involved.

I think you'll find it falls under the category of public interest, and it's a full legal defence if a newspaper can argue that it presents something illegal that shouldn't have been kept dark. Of course, Julian Assange (a Trumpist, as it happens) has used that libertarian argument too, but his public disclosures about US security have probably killed too many people, so it wasn't ever likely to fly in court. :|
They keep trying to ignore the Constitution rules relating to voting.

No they don't. You've been asked many times what you mean by that, and you've never yet produced a coherent argument. Constitutionally, each state is free to set its own practices, and as long as they're published X weeks before the election date, to serve for all votes and not just those of one side, then that's that. Maybe that's a weak part of the national devolution process - I rather think it is - but it isn't a licence for one party to twist things in its own favour. If it were, I'd have to remind you that Georgia, Arizona and Pennsylvania's voting systems had been set by the resident Republicans? :twisted:
I have enjoyed this post so far and I await the Hand of God to strike or not. Fingers Crossed

That's the nearest you've come yet to cracking a joke. Hope springs eternal. :|

BJ

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Re: The Hand of God

#373481

Postby XFool » January 5th, 2021, 4:11 pm

taken2often wrote:As always the segment you are given is not the whole story.

The "segment" I gave you in the link was the whole conversation, something over one hour.

taken2often wrote:Although I have not listened to the conversation you can be assured you only heard what they wanted you to hear.

May we then conclude that you want to hear nothing?

taken2often wrote:The very fact that the call was released tells you about the character of those involved.

I wonder who did release it and why? One point, that I have not yet seen mentioned in the media, is that the recording was made at Trump's end, not the Georgia end. So, if it was released by somebody in Georgia, as generally assumed, how did they get hold of the recording in the first place?

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Re: The Hand of God

#373570

Postby XFool » January 5th, 2021, 7:27 pm

"I Wanted To Scream"
Charlie Sykes

The Bulwark

There are no facts. Only the grift.

“One side has the facts, the other side has nonsense, deception, idiocy.”

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Re: The Hand of God

#373641

Postby taken2often » January 5th, 2021, 11:11 pm

I heard about the call, have had no time to listen to it. If the transcription comes out I will read it. The explanation from the right explains it. Is Trump having a conversation with a Republican Governor explaining that he has been advised that there were thousands of unconstitutional votes cast that effected the vote and he wanted the Governor to release the ballots for examination. I do not know if this is true or not. I do know that all six are sitting on the Ballots and not allowing examination. What is interesting is all the upset about it. If he is going to leave office who cares

As to Julian Assange I have heard that the US Government has confirmed that no one died due to the information released this was fake news . Perhaps you have proof to the contrary.

As to the Constitution. This is what I know. In each state the Legislature decide the voting rules within Federal rules correct, but in this election the Secretary of Sate and the Governor's have abused the delegated powers given to them. They changed the Rules without authority and made it easier to abuse the voting system. It is well documented by both parties that mail in ballots sent out in the way there were would be abused. They made changes as to how voters should be verified and a whole range of other rule changes. They started in March onward by not challenging very dubious court challenges to the voting system using Covid. There appears to be massive amount of irregularities in the Polling Stations and Ballot counting centre's

What is now happening is that there is provision in the Constitution that if the path to 270 Electoral Votes is not accepted by the Senate and Congress there has to be a debate in both houses and then a different type of vote takes place, which may make Trump the winner. The VP plays a very important part in the process and that is why there is a lot of pressure on him. The more reasonable position would be as I have laid out, is a 10 day investigation of the election by a mixed group from both houses. Which every one else has avoided. This is needed to give confidence to the Republican voters who keep saying the election was stolen. 70 odd million of them. So this should be an easy fix if every thing is above board. A not unreasonable request.

By this stage I think the VP will have been presented with a massive amount of evidence of voter fraud that he will be unable to deny it. This is why all this is so interesting. One side say that there is. The other side supported by the media say there is not. In the end the truth will out one way or another.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373651

Postby ursaminortaur » January 6th, 2021, 12:41 am

taken2often wrote:I heard about the call, have had no time to listen to it. If the transcription comes out I will read it. The explanation from the right explains it. Is Trump having a conversation with a Republican Governor explaining that he has been advised that there were thousands of unconstitutional votes cast that effected the vote and he wanted the Governor to release the ballots for examination. I do not know if this is true or not. I do know that all six are sitting on the Ballots and not allowing examination. What is interesting is all the upset about it. If he is going to leave office who cares

As to Julian Assange I have heard that the US Government has confirmed that no one died due to the information released this was fake news . Perhaps you have proof to the contrary.

As to the Constitution. This is what I know. In each state the Legislature decide the voting rules within Federal rules correct, but in this election the Secretary of Sate and the Governor's have abused the delegated powers given to them. They changed the Rules without authority and made it easier to abuse the voting system. It is well documented by both parties that mail in ballots sent out in the way there were would be abused. They made changes as to how voters should be verified and a whole range of other rule changes. They started in March onward by not challenging very dubious court challenges to the voting system using Covid. There appears to be massive amount of irregularities in the Polling Stations and Ballot counting centre's

What is now happening is that there is provision in the Constitution that if the path to 270 Electoral Votes is not accepted by the Senate and Congress there has to be a debate in both houses and then a different type of vote takes place, which may make Trump the winner. The VP plays a very important part in the process and that is why there is a lot of pressure on him. The more reasonable position would be as I have laid out, is a 10 day investigation of the election by a mixed group from both houses. Which every one else has avoided. This is needed to give confidence to the Republican voters who keep saying the election was stolen. 70 odd million of them. So this should be an easy fix if every thing is above board. A not unreasonable request.

By this stage I think the VP will have been presented with a massive amount of evidence of voter fraud that he will be unable to deny it. This is why all this is so interesting. One side say that there is. The other side supported by the media say there is not. In the end the truth will out one way or another.


The VP's only role is to open the certificates from the states stating what their certified electoral college votes were. Trump is trying to use an old precedent from the disputed 1876 presidential election to get an electoral commission setup. Although it is true such an electoral commission was setup in 1876 it didn't actually solve the problem which was solved with a deal between the Republicans and Democrats later. In order to prevent that happening again the 1887 electoral count act was passed and it is that which will be invoked in the event, as expected, that objections are raised by both a Senator and a House representative. The VP will have no role in that and since electoral votes can only be discarded if both houses agree which isn't going to happen since the House is Democrat controlled Trump isn't going to be able to over turn the vote.

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/january-6-electoral-vote-count-congress.html

As noted above, the Constitution merely specifies that the vice-president will “open” certificates from the states conveying the winning Electoral College slates. The Electoral Count Act obliges the veep to “announce” the electors from each state, as certified by the appropriate state executive official (usually the governor). There is no indication in either statute that the vice-president has the power to disregard state certifications, or, for that matter, to choose between competing certifications (avoiding that problem, which deadlocked the 1876 presidential election for months, was the main reason for passage of the Electoral Count Act in the first place). So according to law and precedent, Pence is confined to the merely administrative chore of opening the certifications state elected officials have sent to Congress, arranging for their tabulation and then noting any challenges to a given state’s announced electors from members of Congress.
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In a small wrinkle, the official position of the pro-Trump challengers in the Senate is that Biden’s election should be stopped pending the establishment of an “election commission” charged with investigating election-fraud allegations that will report its recommendations before Inaugural Day. As their statement of intent notes, that’s what Congress did in 1876 when the Hayes-Tilden presidential election went into overtime with four disputed states.

The problem with claiming the 1877 commission as precedent is that it did not in fact resolve the dispute: It voted on partisan lines to accept Hayes electors from all the dispute states. Only after a secretly negotiated deal known later as the Compromise of 1877 (in which Republicans agreed to end the last vestiges of military Reconstruction in the South in exchange for another four years of White House control) did Democrats accept the commission’s recommendation and end the crisis. But in any event, the commission preceded the Electoral Count Act of 1887, which was clearly intended to end serious electoral-vote challenges once and for all. In other words: The commission demand is a complete red herring.
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There is no chance either the Democratic-controlled House or the Senate controlled by Republicans who oppose the challenge categorically (20 of them have publicly announced opposition) will vote to reject any state’s Biden electors. If Pence does “go rogue” and change the dynamics by “announcing” Trump electors or leaving the choice between Biden and Trump electors to Congress, then a majority vote to overturn his determinations should not be any harder. So this whole exercise is a waste of time and attention, unless you consider a further effort to undermine confidence in our electoral system as time well spent.


And finally even if Trump were to somehow find a way of preventing Congress from confirming who was president before the 20th January then all he would have done is, under the provisions of the Presidential Succession act 1947, make the Speaker of the House of Representatives ie Nancy Pelosi President pro-temp until it could be sorted out.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373745

Postby bungeejumper » January 6th, 2021, 10:36 am

Well, today's the day, t2o. The celestial swingometer is in motion, and God's chosen instrument has lost one Senate seat by 55,000 votes, which is quite a lot more than the 12,000 vote losing margin in the November presidential election. And I gather that the other Dem candidate is ahead by 16,000 with several predominantly black constituencies still to count?

What's a poor saviour to do? Launch a Save My Sorry Ass demo in Washington, by the look of it, and invite the Proud Boys in with their assault rifles to instil a bit of respect. To quote that time-honoured slogan from the religious right, what would Jesus have done?

BJ

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Re: The Hand of God

#373880

Postby ursaminortaur » January 6th, 2021, 3:01 pm

It doesn't look like God is helping Trump much as it looks like the Republicans have just lost control of the Senate.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/georgia-senate-election-results-live-runoff-race-latest-b1782988.html

Democrat Jon Ossoff has declared victory in his Georgia Senate runoff against Republican incumbent David Perdue, a result that delivers the upper chamber of Congress back into the hands of his party, following on from Baptist pastor Raphael Warnock’s stunning win over Kelly Loeffler in the early hours of the morning.

Mr Ossoff, 33, becomes the youngest man to enter the Senate since president-elect Joe Biden did so in 1973 while Reverend Warnock becomes the first black senator to represent a former Confederate state, a development hailed as “the dawning of a new day” by Bernice King, daughter of slain civil rights leader Rev Dr Martin Luther King Jr.

Their wins mean that both parties have 50 senators each, leaving the deciding vote in legislative matters with vice president-elect Kamala Harris and seeing Mitch McConnell deposed as majority leader, a disastrous end to the Donald Trump administration for the Republican Party.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373930

Postby bluedonkey » January 6th, 2021, 4:16 pm

Not quite: Warnock is the first black Democrat senator for the south, there was a black Republican elected for the south previously.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373951

Postby ursaminortaur » January 6th, 2021, 4:50 pm

bluedonkey wrote:Not quite: Warnock is the first black Democrat senator for the south, there was a black Republican elected for the south previously.


Yes - soon after the Civil War Hiram Rhodes Revels served as a Republican Mississippi Senator though in those days the Senators were selected by the state rather than elected.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hiram_Rhodes_Revels

There have been a couple since then with the latest who was definitely elected being Timothy Eugene Scott as Republican Senator for South Carolina

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Scott

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Re: The Hand of God

#373995

Postby Heinous » January 6th, 2021, 5:57 pm

ursaminortaur wrote:It doesn't look like God is helping Trump much as it looks like the Republicans have just lost control of the Senate.

It could have been worse; they could have won.
Mr Trump is almost phobic about losing and losers. Imagine his pain if - after he lost in Georgia - mere candidates for the Senate had won. It would have really highlighted his new role as a loser. So I'm sure, deep down, he's happy with the results. A loser among losers is preferable to being the only loser.

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Re: The Hand of God

#374087

Postby ursaminortaur » January 6th, 2021, 10:07 pm

Is getting an armed mob to storm the Capitol the type of "Act of God" that taken2often was expecting ?

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Re: The Hand of God

#374130

Postby taken2often » January 6th, 2021, 11:59 pm

Well that certainly brought out some better informed comments. But still no one is addressing the problem, was there substantial fraud or not. Millions think there was, as I do. This is not a good position for any country to be in. This has caused the disruption in DC. What caused it none of the six disputed states are allowing a forensic audit, which would settle the question. None of the courts have heard any of the serious allegations. They left it to Congress. So without the audit this protest may just be the start of massive protest. It is a well known fact that all elections in the US has some form of fraud and it would not normally effect the result. But if you inject more than half a million dollars into the mix you will get some adverse results. Which you all want to ignore.

For the technical a group of mathematicians called The Data Integrity Group gave evidence at the Georgian Senate investigation. Three of them stated that after many hours of studying published data, they had found massive anomalies that could not be explained. They stated that they have published their workings to see if anyone else can explain them. They have also asked the SOS and Governor's of the six states for explanations. Still waiting, but so far no one has disputed there findings. They say they do not care who wins only that the election is fair.

One example was that in one area the number of Postal Ballots as a percentage of the votes needing adjudication was so great that it was not physically possible to do so and pass through the machine in the time that they processed them. The group also did an interview explaining their findings on a site called EPOCH TIMES.

Now I know you all have closed minds and do not even want to consider any possibility of Fraud and any way if there was that's OK to get Trump out.

The other problem they raised was that if the same systems were used in the Run Off and it is tight then that will mean another dispute. By the By The Georgian Senate voted to have a forensic audit of the Postal Ballots especially those found under a table. When will that happen who knows. Would you be happy if a President was voted in on a fraudulent vote.

Today in the house All Republican Congress voted to review election laws in the future. Not one Democrat voted for it. They like the system, strange that.

The only consolation is that Biden is a Politician hand hopefully will rat on the Very Left Wing supporters. Things will be desperate if they have all three positions and they try to implement their agenda. Wall Stree will regret their support. It was a little strange that BLM were very unhappy they seem to think they have done something to get a seat at the Big Table. I wonder what that could be.

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Re: The Hand of God

#374142

Postby ursaminortaur » January 7th, 2021, 12:26 am

taken2often wrote:Well that certainly brought out some better informed comments. But still no one is addressing the problem, was there substantial fraud or not. Millions think there was, as I do. This is not a good position for any country to be in. This has caused the disruption in DC. What caused it none of the six disputed states are allowing a forensic audit, which would settle the question. None of the courts have heard any of the serious allegations. They left it to Congress. So without the audit this protest may just be the start of massive protest. It is a well known fact that all elections in the US has some form of fraud and it would not normally effect the result. But if you inject more than half a million dollars into the mix you will get some adverse results. Which you all want to ignore.

For the technical a group of mathematicians called The Data Integrity Group gave evidence at the Georgian Senate investigation. Three of them stated that after many hours of studying published data, they had found massive anomalies that could not be explained. They stated that they have published their workings to see if anyone else can explain them. They have also asked the SOS and Governor's of the six states for explanations. Still waiting, but so far no one has disputed there findings. They say they do not care who wins only that the election is fair.

One example was that in one area the number of Postal Ballots as a percentage of the votes needing adjudication was so great that it was not physically possible to do so and pass through the machine in the time that they processed them. The group also did an interview explaining their findings on a site called EPOCH TIMES.

Now I know you all have closed minds and do not even want to consider any possibility of Fraud and any way if there was that's OK to get Trump out.

The other problem they raised was that if the same systems were used in the Run Off and it is tight then that will mean another dispute. By the By The Georgian Senate voted to have a forensic audit of the Postal Ballots especially those found under a table. When will that happen who knows. Would you be happy if a President was voted in on a fraudulent vote.

Today in the house All Republican Congress voted to review election laws in the future. Not one Democrat voted for it. They like the system, strange that.

The only consolation is that Biden is a Politician hand hopefully will rat on the Very Left Wing supporters. Things will be desperate if they have all three positions and they try to implement their agenda. Wall Stree will regret their support. It was a little strange that BLM were very unhappy they seem to think they have done something to get a seat at the Big Table. I wonder what that could be.


Do you condemn Trump as Republican Senator Mitt Romney has done for inciting an insurrection ?

https://twitter.com/SenatorRomney/status/1346958329906565120?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1346958329906565120%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fus-news%2Flive%2F2021%2Fjan%2F06%2Fgeorgia-election-latest-news-senate-ossoff-warnock-democrats-republicans-trump-biden

What happened at the U.S. Capitol today was an insurrection, incited by the President of the United States.

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Re: The Hand of God

#374164

Postby GoSeigen » January 7th, 2021, 7:44 am

taken2often wrote:Well that certainly brought out some better informed comments. But still no one is addressing the problem, was there substantial fraud or not. Millions think there was, as I do. This is not a good position for any country to be in.


We've known for years that millions of Americans are seriously deluded. Why should this issue be addressed now in particular?

EDIT: Interesting though that even Republicans are accepting what some of us have known for years: "Republican Representative Mike Gallagher of Wisconsin said the day’s events moved the U.S. into “banana republic territory.”"

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles ... in-arizona

GS

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Re: The Hand of God

#374283

Postby ursaminortaur » January 7th, 2021, 12:22 pm

Taken2often now seems to have his answer as to whether God would intervene as Congress have certified that Biden will now be president from the 20th.

See

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9mJF08RbdZc&feature=emb_rel_end

in particular from 1hr 14 minutes onwards.


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