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The Hand of God

Religion and Philosophy
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we are introducing this on a trial basis and that respect for other's views is important e.g. phrases like "your imaginary friend" or "you will go to hell" are not appropriate
XFool
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Re: The Hand of God

#371498

Postby XFool » December 30th, 2020, 11:33 pm

taken2often wrote:The courts have avoided inspecting any evidence of unconstitutional voting irregularities and that's why you do not hear of them, and there is plenty. They want to keep out of this mess if possible, but they are doing themselves a lot of damage. So evidence is true or its not.

Indeed. This is why Trump is getting nowhere.

taken2often wrote:You need to appreciate that both parties are corrupt. This time it is the Democrat party, but they go overboard, as the leftists/socialist that they now are the means justify the end, and anything goes. Next time it may be the Republican party who may develop a strong right wing and be prepared to do the dirty on some Democrats. Who knows.

"Next time"? :?

Do you think Trump is "corrupt"?

taken2often wrote:There are many never trumper's within the Republican party and they are starting to show up.

Yes. There are some traditional Republicans left. I do not know what their role will be in whatever becomes of the GOP. They will hardly pass Trump's 'loyalty test'.

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Re: The Hand of God

#371682

Postby ursaminortaur » December 31st, 2020, 2:52 pm

taken2often wrote:I prepared a reply but it wiped out. So I will try again, but in separate replies.

The whole point of the Hand of God is to debunk your very firm statement that there is zero chance. I would like to see your face if he did pull it off.

The courts have avoided inspecting any evidence of unconstitutional voting irregularities and that's why you do not hear of them, and there is plenty. They want to keep out of this mess if possible, but they are doing themselves a lot of damage. So evidence is true or its not.


Lower courts have heard what little evidence has been presented and ruled against Trump and his lawyers. Appeal courts and the Supreme court have then often ruled that the appeals are either without merit or in some cases such as the Texas case at the Supreme Court that the complainant has no standing. The problem is that although Trump and his Lawyers make a lot of noise outside court they have thus far failed to present any convincing evidence to any court. Even when the judges in the courts have been republican or even Trump appointees they have ruled against Trump since the evidence isn't there for them to do otherwise.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/judges-trump-election-lawsuits/2020/12/12/e3a57224-3a72-11eb-98c4-25dc9f4987e8_story.html

But conservative jurists are among those who have balked at the sweeping attempts by Trump and his allies to throw out millions of votes after they were cast — rejecting claims of irregularities as unfounded and challenges to the voting process as belated.

The Post found that 38 judges appointed by Republicans dealt blows to such suits, with some writing searing opinions.

The latest example came Saturday, when federal District Judge Brett H. Ludwig, a Trump nominee who took the bench in September, dismissed a lawsuit filed by the president that sought to throw out the election results in Wisconsin, calling the request “extraordinary.”

“A sitting president who did not prevail in his bid for reelection has asked for federal court help in setting aside the popular vote based on disputed issues of election administration, issues he plainly could have raised before the vote occurred,” he wrote. “This Court has allowed plaintiff the chance to make his case and he has lost on the merits.”

Trump asked for the rule of law to be followed, Ludwig noted, adding: “It has been.”
.
.
.
As of Friday, more than 50 of their cases had failed or been tossed out of court. Just one minor suit — which shortened the period of time in which Pennsylvania voters could fix errors on certain mail ballots — was successful.

Judges consistently found there was no substantive evidence to support claims of fraud and irregularities — that Biden’s votes were, in fact, legal votes.


As to the 6th January, Congress has to follow the rules which have been laid down which means that it is pretty much a formality that Biden will be confirmed as president. Theoretically yes you could have your act of God conferring the presidency on Trump but to do so God would need to get the Democrat controlled House to vote for Trump which would be a tall order unless God overruled his own rules on allowing people free will.

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Re: The Hand of God

#371764

Postby Stonge » December 31st, 2020, 6:21 pm

This has been a very interesting, if somewhat terrifying, thread.

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Re: The Hand of God

#371842

Postby taken2often » December 31st, 2020, 11:10 pm

Thank for your reply. The problem to my understanding is that the Supreme Court had the opportunity before the election to fix the problems relating to the illegal changes to the voting rules in various states. This was the signal for no other court to touch this. They would all stand back and let Congress and the Senate sort it out. The media and Big Tech are actively blocking the news as what is happening. The statements that there is no evidence is very wrong and as time passes more and more is coming out and the pressure is increasing on the 6 swing states to cancel the certification of there votes due to the proof being present unconstitutional voting irregularities.

Today I may have seen the smoking gun as they say, and it is worth the watch, because you are unlikely to hear about.

Youtube Georgia State Senate Holds Meeting on 2020 Election Fraud. There has been a small selection selection of witnesses there is just too many that they do not have the time. So they have picked what they think is the most important. The Gun one was the most interesting. He claimed that he is an expert in scanners and has hundreds of patents and his scanning codes are used all over the world including most mobile phones that can do this.

So he states that the voting system quality is miles below the requirements of large Supermarkets and banks etc. He then states he has no interest in the machines, the code all he is interested in the the actual paper vote. They have a story to tell and his systems can detect whether the Ballot is real or not. But he has screenshots of certain anomalies that he found. He shows two ballot papers one sent to a known Democrat area points to the top right hand corner and said no bar code, points out the target at the bottom left hand side and there is a cross in the centre of the target. This is for the scanner to be set. He then shows another ballot being sent to a known Republican area. He points to the top right hand corner there is now a bar code. He points to the bottom left of the paper and the cross is halfway out of the target. The machine will reject this ballot and it is sent to Adjudication. This is where the vote can be changed. There is supposed to be a Democrat and a Republican to process these in many cases this did not happen and the watchers were not allowed to watch.

He then goes on to explain that the mail in ballots should always have folds, his scanners can check for this. They can also check the paper and the water marks, whether the ballot has been machine marked or human hand and check the numerical numbers for duplicates, there is supposedly other tests as well

He offered free of charge, to test the ballots in the most controversial county. This is where it get interesting all six state Secretary of States have been more than reluctant to have the votes tested even though by Federal Law they are obliged to keep them for 2 years for inspection.

So if there is no problem why not let them be tested. There were other very interesting video's Remember the 4 cases of votes brought out from under a table after the regular staff and watchers departed. This one showed a different angle which showed three operators re-feeding the same ballots through the machine 2,3 or 4 times. This was the night of the massive spike for Joe Biden.

Other evidence was very interesting As I said well worth the watch but time consuming. By the way the above witness started about 1h.13min in

Things are hotting up

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Re: The Hand of God

#371968

Postby XFool » January 1st, 2021, 11:11 am

taken2often wrote:Today I may have seen the smoking gun as they say, and it is worth the watch, because you are unlikely to hear about.

I had a look at your "smoking gun".

https://5townscentral.com/2020/12/30/live-georgia-state-senate-holds-meeting-on-2020-election-fraud/

taken2often wrote:Georgia State Senate Holds Meeting on 2020 Election Fraud. There has been a small selection selection of witnesses there is just too many that they do not have the time. So they have picked what they think is the most important. The Gun one was the most interesting. He claimed that he is an expert in scanners and has hundreds of patents and his scanning codes are used all over the world including most mobile phones that can do this.

He sure is "interesting"! :)

https://jovanhuttonpulitzer.org
https://celebpie.com/jovan-pulitzer/
https://www.dallasobserver.com/news/crystal-clear-6399274

Jovan Hutton Pulitzer birth name Jeffry Jovan Philyaw

https://goldiis.org/mission

Gold Institue for International Strategy
"The purpose of the Gold Institute for International Strategy is to actively engage in the discussion of these issues by those who have not only thought deeply about them, but who have actively participated in efforts to affect them."

Right. :?

To me, he came across as an expert in using a very large number of words in order to say rather little. The rest of his 'evidence'(?) consisted of a cross between a rant and a political campaign speech.

There are undoubtedly some very unusual people in the USA.

taken2often wrote:So he states that the voting system quality is miles below the requirements of large Supermarkets and banks etc. He then states he has no interest in the machines, the code all he is interested in the the actual paper vote. They have a story to tell and his systems can detect whether the Ballot is real or not. But he has screenshots of certain anomalies that he found. He shows two ballot papers one sent to a known Democrat area points to the top right hand corner and said no bar code, points out the target at the bottom left hand side and there is a cross in the centre of the target. This is for the scanner to be set. He then shows another ballot being sent to a known Republican area. He points to the top right hand corner there is now a bar code. He points to the bottom left of the paper and the cross is halfway out of the target. The machine will reject this ballot and it is sent to Adjudication. This is where the vote can be changed. There is supposed to be a Democrat and a Republican to process these in many cases this did not happen and the watchers were not allowed to watch.

He then goes on to explain that the mail in ballots should always have folds, his scanners can check for this. They can also check the paper and the water marks, whether the ballot has been machine marked or human hand and check the numerical numbers for duplicates, there is supposedly other tests as well

Bear in mind this was not a court or a forensic investigation, none of these 'witnesses' were challenged or their claims subject to serious scrutiny.

This whole business seems to come down to matters of belief, evidence, illusion, reality, trust and truth. So, certainly philosophical if not religious!

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Re: The Hand of God

#372000

Postby bungeejumper » January 1st, 2021, 12:26 pm

taken2often wrote:The media and Big Tech are actively blocking the news as what is happening. The statements that there is no evidence is very wrong and as time passes more and more is coming out and the pressure is increasing on the 6 swing states to cancel the certification of there votes due to the proof being present unconstitutional voting irregularities.

Well, the media and Big Tech are reporting today that V-P Mike Pence has come out against Trump's campaign to get the certification cancelled. And there's nobody quite so sure as the Vice President about whose side God is on. ;)

According to the FT (and the Washington Post, though I don't have a subscription), Pence has called on a federal judge to throw out a lawsuit filed against him by a handful of nutcase Republican congressmen, who claim that he is obliged to front another lawsuit seeking to scrap the rules on how Congress certifies presidential elections.

Yeah, right. Just overturn the constitution on the say-so of a handful of minor politicos who happen to be in a temporary fix, and never mind the central point. If the most prominent diehard Christian figure in US politics won't get behind this scandalous campaign, then I wouldn't reckon on God backing it either. Still, I doubt that anybody will convince you otherwise? See you on the 6th.

BJ

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Re: The Hand of God

#372089

Postby XFool » January 1st, 2021, 3:49 pm

Is this the way forward?

Veteran Republican criticizes Trump and suggests US may need new party for ‘moderate conservatives’

The Independaent

Former Maine senator also compared Trump’s congressional backers to circus elephants under his control

"A former Republican senator and defense secretary has suggested it may be time for moderate conservatives to form a new political party as he launched a withering attack on the lawmakers supporting Donald Trump's bid to overturn the election result."

Perhaps God is showing his Hand at last? ;)

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Re: The Hand of God

#372227

Postby taken2often » January 1st, 2021, 11:12 pm

Very interesting , but I note the usual no mention of the technical aspects the witness pointed out. No mention of the offer to run a check on the ballot papers. Just his strongly felt opinion. This is a typical pivot. What about the video evidence, no we will just ignore that. It is true that the witnesses are not under oath but most are producing Affidavits sworn under oath and the threat of perjury. But we just ignore that.

Who knows what the VP Mike pence will do on the 6th. He was not happy about having a legal challenge trying to force him into something. One thing though he is is honorable and if the amount of evidence is overwhelming he will do the right thing. This fraudulent voting is far bigger than a partisan difference between two parties. If this proves to be true this will be the destruction of the voting principal in a free country. If it works in the US it could work anywhere.

We wait and see

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Re: The Hand of God

#372304

Postby taken2often » January 2nd, 2021, 11:08 am

I thought we may be finished with this, but no one has raised the moral question. If voting fraud has taken place and mostly among 6 states how could this be possible. This a question I had to ask myself. In general the conspiracy theory is laughed out of court. Then you think this would have to be a conspiracy. So you go through the list. You would need a big cause. Trump has to go. With 4 years of indoctrination. The Cause has always been present in the abuse of power, especially in all the ISMS. Do they see themselves as soldiers needing to do their duty for the Cause.

When authority gives the nod that uncivil action will be ignored, this tends to bring out the activists, who can then be recruited. Now we have seen this with the rioting and looting with no real action from the Sate Executives all Democratic run. Who else can give the Nod. Union management. Civil Service mostly Democrats according to donation statistics and Education. Another Trump period is going to cause them big problems due to their education failure especially relating to black children. All people who would be associated with with voting administration as a rule.

There is still one big element missing. The Glue how do you combine 6 states to follow one path. Then it turns up. Mark Zuckerberg Founder of FaceBook donates Half a Billion Dollars ( 500 Hundred Thousand dollars) think about that. This is to go to a number of organisations who will assist with the voting procedures. One of these was to change the legislation to allow unsupervised Vote Drop Boxes. More in Democrat areas than Republican strange that.

If you wish to get more detail go to the Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society. Election Funding from Facebook Founder Mark Zuckerberg

Now the camera operator is not to good initially as the narrator keeps referring to a screen which you cannot see, but they start to get it right. This project explains what has been happening since March last year and the preparation that has gone into fixing the vote.

A lot of money can grease a lot of hands. If you are an unemployed activist this could be the answer to their prayers, if they do such a thing.

So it all comes together, but who would want to believe that such an evil entity could exist in a democratic country. People go there to get away from this.

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Re: The Hand of God

#372351

Postby XFool » January 2nd, 2021, 1:16 pm

taken2often wrote:I thought we may be finished with this, but no one has raised the moral question.

Oh they have! Questions of morality have been repeately raised regarding Trump and his general behaviour, plus the morality of he and his supporters actions over the presidential election. But you seem to want to give him a free pass, taken2often. The "moral question" mysteriously only applies to the other side. Is God then a right-wing Republican?

taken2often wrote:If voting fraud has taken place and mostly among 6 states how could this be possible.

"If", "how", "possible" - these words keep cropping up, don't they?

So, if there has been fraud, that fraud can only be in those six marginal Democratic states? i.e. Fraud is being defined as 'Democratic fraud'. Has 'Republican fraud' then been defined as non-existent? Now I have to ask myself: "How could this be possible?"

taken2often wrote:There is still one big element missing.

There is - Evidence. As opposed to freewheeling speculations.

taken2often wrote:If you wish to get more detail go to the Amistad Project of the Thomas More Society. Election Funding from Facebook Founder Mark Zuckerberg

Yes, to quote Wikipedia: "The Society launched the Amistad Project, which sought to file claims of fraud in the 2020 US presidential election and thus overturn the voting tabulations in several states that had been tabulated as voting for Democratic presidential candidate Joe Biden. The project is under the direction of former Kansas Attorney General Phill Kline, whose law licensed has been suspended."

taken2often wrote:A lot of money can grease a lot of hands. If you are an unemployed activist this could be the answer to their prayers, if they do such a thing.

"If". Ah yes! If I were The Last King of Scotland, I'd be sitting on a throne in Edinburgh castle. IF.

taken2often wrote:So it all comes together, but who would want to believe that such an evil entity could exist in a democratic country. People go there to get away from this.

It has certainly "all come together" in your mind, taken2often. But I feel that you have been psychologically 'captured'.

As far as democracy in America is concerned, great harm is being done and that is accurately described as an "evil".

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Re: The Hand of God

#372394

Postby XFool » January 2nd, 2021, 3:33 pm

Facts won't fix this: experts on how to fight America's disinformation crisis

The Guardian

Trump’s false claims about the election and coronavirus are taking a dangerous toll. Can the divide be healed?

“Nobody anywhere likes to feel like they’ve been duped,” said Shafiqah Hudson, an author and researcher who has studied online disinformation campaigns. “We will fight tooth and nail as humans to avoid feeling foolish. That’s why you see people double down. Nobody wants to feel like they’ve been taken, but a lot of the country’s really been taken.”

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Re: The Hand of God

#372499

Postby taken2often » January 2nd, 2021, 10:53 pm

So once again you pivot. Have a go at me and ignore the Zuckerberg money. So you think 500 hundred million inserted into the voting system is ok ,would have no effect. Its a dead cert you did not watch the news conference. This was not the only funding inserted into this election.

Anyway in this election it is the Democrats who have to win at all costs. They have moved so far left that I think they are in Socialist territory, where anything goes and the end justifies the means. Whether you like it or not, and even if Trump does not win. This is going to be a massive scandal.

You do not even care if news and facts are concealed from you. That's just the way of the world, they have got to protect the narrative. Electing a crooked family to the Presidency no problem. They would have told me if this was they case.

I only support what is right and truthful and I have watched the Democrats and media scrapping the bottom of the barrel for four years, to try and damage Trump.

Oops he got 10 million more votes than the last election. Something not right there.

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Re: The Hand of God

#372537

Postby servodude » January 3rd, 2021, 6:32 am

taken2often wrote:I only support what is right and truthful and I have watched the Democrats and media scrapping the bottom of the barrel for four years, to try and damage Trump.

Oops he got 10 million more votes than the last election. Something not right there.


Sounds like this Trump guy really has grabbed some by the pussy and it appears he's held them in his grip ;)

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Re: The Hand of God

#372574

Postby bungeejumper » January 3rd, 2021, 10:19 am

taken2often wrote:Oops he [Trump]got 10 million more votes than the last election. Something not right there.

Sounds okay to me. But tell me, what is it about a nationally higher voter turnout than usual that bothers you? (It was the best since 1900, apparently.)

Overall, there were 22 million more votes cast in November's poll than in the 2016 election. So if Trump's vote increased by 10.1 million, I daresay you can do the maths on how many more votes went to the Dems?

- Who had already beaten Trump's popular vote back in 2016 by nearly three million (65,844,954 votes for Clinton, versus 62,979,879 for Trump).

Once again, let us know if you're having trouble with the maths? But do bear in mind that, if you continue to insist that too many votes were counted in 2020, your man appears to have got ten million more too. Damn, those corrupt voting machines must have been pretty even-handed. :lol:

There's a pretty well-considered analysis of where Trump's additional votes came from at https://www.refinery29.com/en-us/2020/1 ... 20-vs-2016. Granted, the author doesn't like Mr T, but she doesn't stoop to calc-mangling of the kind that we're seeing from the far right.

Anyway, you've said that you expect the Hand of God to have finally intervened by three days from now. I have my bag of popcorn ready and waiting. See you then.

BJ

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Re: The Hand of God

#372840

Postby XFool » January 3rd, 2021, 9:12 pm

Well, it looks like taken2often was right all along. A clear case of somebody trying to sabotage the US election has been found:

US election: Trump tells Georgia election official to 'find' votes to overturn Biden win

BBC News

US President Donald Trump has been recorded telling Georgia's top election official to "find" enough votes to overturn the election result.

The Hand of God?

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Re: The Hand of God

#372867

Postby taken2often » January 3rd, 2021, 11:06 pm

Quoting the BBC and the Guardian how low can you go. Two massive left wing entities. Still no acknowledgement of any evidence whether you believe it or not Cannot exist. Biden managed to get more votes than Obama. A miracle on its own. As you know the popular vote is not the decider. The majorities are relatively small to overturn the six states. Now there may be problems with the Dominion machines. You heard the expression rubbish in rubbish out so the machine should balance. One problem was they did an audit on 5000 votes through a machine and got five different answers. Even the Dominion tech could not explain it. If this fraud did take place it was illegal votes going through. Remember the four suit cases. That video was presented to a Senate Committee and has been described by the Secretary of States Office as normal procedure. One of the smoking guns.

There has been private audits of the vote and large anomalies found across a range of votes that should have not been processed,Then we have vote harvesting, legal in some states and Drop Boxes you can stuff with any old vote. No verification The big one appears to be the claims of votes being shipped in by truck from New York State. A driver has stated that he wasted a day in a post office transit warehouse trying to get this load of ballots off. Then told to leave the trailer and go home. Came back the next day and the trailer had disappeared. There has been some confirmation from his New York Depot that there had been a number of shipments. But who knows we are grasping at straws you know. Although it does tie in with reports of ballots being processed in the middle of the night without supervision and it was these spikes that swung the vote, so who knows.This is where a forensic audit of the ballot papers would answer the question. Such as no crease from folding , water mark, paper and machine marked. You know all thing the six states are avoiding.

I like the Pivot about the Pussy. Have you actually heard the tape. A really good example of Fake news. Did Donald have unfortunate conversation unknowingly taped. He was asking about the current social behaviour, of the Hollywood entertainment executives. He was from New York and could not believe that the girls would allow themselves to be touched up so easily. Obviously a signal shortcut for busy possibly married executives. The Media turned this into something that he does or did. A distortion of the truth and they have been doing this every week for the past four years. But that's OK its only Trump Trump, anything goes.

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Re: The Hand of God

#372898

Postby XFool » January 4th, 2021, 1:31 am

taken2often wrote:Quoting the BBC and the Guardian how low can you go. Two massive left wing entities.

So that's your usual "pivot", shoot the messenger, ignore the message. As I am sure you know, "the BBC and the Guardian" are not the only messengers, but it's all the same message: a recording of Donald Trump attempting to corrupt the presidential election.

"There are none so blind..."

taken2often wrote:Still no acknowledgement of any evidence...

The "evidence" is a recording of Trump's phone call.

taken2often wrote:But that's OK its only Trump Trump, anything goes.

That much, at least, is true!

The clock is ticking. Is God planning to show his hand at the last moment? We shall see.

Jeremiah 5:21
Hear now this, O foolish people, and without understanding; which have eyes, and see not; which have ears, and hear not:

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Re: The Hand of God

#372944

Postby argoal » January 4th, 2021, 10:20 am

Lots of biblical passages referring to Trump and his followers.
This is just a small sample of them.

Timothy 2:26
..and they may come to their senses and escape from the snare of the devil, after being captured by him to do his will.

or..

John 12:31
Now is the judgment of this world; now will the ruler of this world be cast out.

This is nice..

Corinthians 11:13-15
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.


Jeremiah 14:14
The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I did not send them, nor did I command them or speak to them. They are prophesying to you a lying vision, worthless divination, and the deceit of their own minds.

Lamentations 2:14
Your prophets have seen for you false and deceptive visions; they have not exposed your iniquity to restore your fortunes, but have seen for you oracles that are false and misleading.

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Re: The Hand of God

#373031

Postby XFool » January 4th, 2021, 3:03 pm


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Re: The Hand of God

#373105

Postby XFool » January 4th, 2021, 5:49 pm

No Party for Godfearing Men?

Worse Than Treason
Tom Nichols

The atlantic

No amount of rationalizing can change the fact that the majority of the Republican Party is advocating for the overthrow of an American election.

"People of goodwill across the United States want some sort of road map to oppose this cold-blooded attack on the Constitution, but none exists. As James Madison warned us, without a virtuous people, no system of checks and balances will work. The Republicans have gone from being a party that touted virtue to being the most squalid and grubby expression of institutionalized self-interest in the modern history of the American republic."


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