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Coronavirus Health

Fitness tips, Relaxation, Mind and Body
Backache
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#322408

Postby Backache » June 28th, 2020, 11:14 pm

look wrote:
Snorvey wrote:
look wrote:PinkDalek built a link where i could read only a part. Then i searched about the issue and find this link:

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/03 ... oronavirus


I'll give it a month before they start clinical trials using leeches.



You can disagree, but i think you didn't read the article.
Here is an excerpt:

Vaccines generally raise immune responses specific to a targeted pathogen, such as antibodies that bind and neutralize one type of virus but not others. But BCG may also increase the ability of the immune system to fight off pathogens other than the TB bacterium, according to clinical and observational studies published over several decades by Danish researchers Peter Aaby and Christine Stabell Benn, who live and work in Guinea-Bissau. They concluded the vaccine prevents about 30% of infections with any known pathogen, including viruses, in the first year after it’s given. The studies published in this field have been criticized for their methodology, however; a 2014 review ordered by the World Health Organization concluded that BCG appeared to lower overall mortality in children, but rated confidence in the findings as “very low.” A 2016 review was a bit more positive about BCG’s potential benefits but said randomized trials were needed.

Or putting it into English the BCG vaccine might provide a bit of enhanced protection against other infectious diseases or it might not.
A review oranised by experts thinks it's improbable but to be sure you need more experiments.

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#322427

Postby look » June 29th, 2020, 1:09 am

Backache wrote:
look wrote:
Snorvey wrote:
I'll give it a month before they start clinical trials using leeches.



You can disagree, but i think you didn't read the article.
Here is an excerpt:

Vaccines generally raise immune responses specific to a targeted pathogen, such as antibodies that bind and neutralize one type of virus but not others. But BCG may also increase the ability of the immune system to fight off pathogens other than the TB bacterium, according to clinical and observational studies published over several decades by Danish researchers Peter Aaby and Christine Stabell Benn, who live and work in Guinea-Bissau. They concluded the vaccine prevents about 30% of infections with any known pathogen, including viruses, in the first year after it’s given. The studies published in this field have been criticized for their methodology, however; a 2014 review ordered by the World Health Organization concluded that BCG appeared to lower overall mortality in children, but rated confidence in the findings as “very low.” A 2016 review was a bit more positive about BCG’s potential benefits but said randomized trials were needed.

Or putting it into English the BCG vaccine might provide a bit of enhanced protection against other infectious diseases or it might not.
A review oranised by experts thinks it's improbable but to be sure you need more experiments.



I wrote 2 lines, the rest is an excerpt.
YOu wrote: In plain English...

It seems that you thought that I wrote all the text, he he

I give importance to the conclusion of the 2 danish.

I think that for coronavirus the all the doctors should try to use new treatments, as there is no official treatment.

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#322429

Postby look » June 29th, 2020, 1:28 am

It seems that very much people has confidence in the WHO and medical authorities. In this times of coronavirus, it would be good to read avout ideas of Venon Coleman.

I didn't read, but i think this writer is like other that i read.

I will tell you something of my personal life.
My father had cancer. He was angry very often, One night, i heard a strong noise and thought he has put down a big furniture in a room nearby. I didn't go to see what it was, I thought it could be dangerous because he was very angry. After a time of silence, i went into the room, he ask: why didn't you come to help me? he fell.

He was turning weaker, difficulty to walk, but i didn't expect that he was already in so bad shape.

Aprocimately 3 years after he died, i read t

hat a university was producing an experimental anti cancer drug since 20 years, and was giving it to a crowd of cancer victims. I watch some interesting thing at the TV. In 2 different channels, 2 different persons said that the remedy helped to walk, two guys that where in bed without movements could walk even in stairs after using the remedy.

Then i turn rebel. This remedy could help my father, and i couldn't give it to him, because of the bad people that rule the market.
The rules about medicines should be modified, and it's urgent.

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#322439

Postby johnhemming » June 29th, 2020, 7:41 am


redsturgeon
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#322478

Postby redsturgeon » June 29th, 2020, 9:55 am

look wrote:
Then i turn rebel. This remedy could help my father, and i couldn't give it to him, because of the bad people that rule the market.
The rules about medicines should be modified, and it's urgent.


Perhaps you are forgetting this:

https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/ ... regulation

They are not bad people, just cautious.

Trust me, the pharmaceutical companies would love it if they could skip much of the regulatory frameworks to rush drugs to market, delays cost them money and having a 10 year plus lead time for regulatory approval gives them a much smaller window in which to make their profits.

John

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323046

Postby Itsallaguess » July 1st, 2020, 6:11 pm

johnhemming wrote:
A bit more on T-cells

https://www.researchsquare.com/article/rs-35331/v1


There's a BBC story from earlier today that's discussing the potential impact of T-cells on this virus -

People testing negative for coronavirus antibodies may still have some immunity, a study has suggested.

For every person testing positive for antibodies, two were found to have specific T-cells which identify and destroy infected cells.

This was seen even in people who had mild or symptomless cases of Covid-19.

But it's not yet clear whether this just protects that individual, or if it might also stop them from passing on the infection to others.

This doesn't necessarily get us any closer to herd immunity, though, according to assistant professor Marcus Buggert, one of the study's authors.

More analysis needs to be done to understand whether these T-cells provide "sterilising immunity", meaning they completely block the virus, or whether they might protect an individual from getting sick but not stop them from carrying the virus and transmitting it.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-53248660

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323055

Postby johnhemming » July 1st, 2020, 6:48 pm

There are still lots of things that are "not clear". However, it is clear that some people (they said 66% in this article) who have been infected and defeated the infection have no antibodies. So take London's 17% figures and multiply it by 3.

To be honest, however, the best test really is deaths in particular locations. The notional R0 will be increased as a result of procedural changes. If the numbers of deaths don't go up in the urban areas then that is because so many people have already been infected combined with the weather. All the dancing around each other to keep a certain distance apart is then clearly futile (much that I will dance to keep people happy).

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323079

Postby Mike4 » July 1st, 2020, 8:26 pm

On Monday a vaccine in China was approved for use!

"China's military has approved a coronavirus vaccine developed by its own research staff and a Chinese biotech firm, it was announced on Monday. The vaccine was given the green light for use by troops after trials proved it was both safe and effective, said CanSino Biologics, the biotech firm involved."

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... -clinical/

Reading further it seems they are using it on the military initially, being a well controlled population well suited for further study, prior to eventual roll-out to the general population.

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323128

Postby look » July 1st, 2020, 11:56 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
look wrote:
Then i turn rebel. This remedy could help my father, and i couldn't give it to him, because of the bad people that rule the market.
The rules about medicines should be modified, and it's urgent.


Perhaps you are forgetting this:

https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/ ... regulation

They are not bad people, just cautious.

Trust me, the pharmaceutical companies would love it if they could skip much of the regulatory frameworks to rush drugs to market, delays cost them money and having a 10 year plus lead time for regulatory approval gives them a much smaller window in which to make their profits.

John



The problem of talidomide was the colateral effect. I don't think that because of this case the use of a medicine for different diseases should be prevented. The conclusion of that fact for me is that the colateral effects are more important
than effectiveness. Nowadays, I have seen several medicines with the warning that the colateral effects on pregnants was not studied and the recommendation is not to use it in pregnants.

The club of the bad guys include pharmaceuticals, doctors, authorities and the a part of the press. Difficult it is to know who does more bad actions.

I think if one wants to sell grass to cure some disease and if other wants to but it, it should be allowed. natural things shoud only be forbotten if is't clearly bad. Medicines without proof of effectibeness should be sold with a big warning.

Here a link for a text about the guy who distributed a cancer drug. I don't bet that it's all that for cancer, but I but this a miracoulos for help people to return to walk. It's in portuguese, there are references in English, but not with the other good work the guy does, a compound cheaper and better thatn silicone for fractured bones.

https://g1.globo.com/sp/sao-carlos-regi ... anos.ghtml

servodude
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323135

Postby servodude » July 2nd, 2020, 12:31 am

look wrote:I think if one wants to sell grass to cure some disease and if other wants to but it, it should be allowed. natural things shoud only be forbotten if is't clearly bad.


They can..

Shelves the world over are awash with cures, aids, powders, potions, pills, tinctures, crystals etc that are sold with the promise of helping your health
- there is nothing stopping anyone from doing that
- you just can't call it medicine

Personally I find it a bit exploitative to sell people things like water with bogus claims as to its efficacy for treatment of a problem

- sd

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323139

Postby look » July 2nd, 2020, 1:02 am

pharmaceutical companies are used to pay travels for the doctors that recommend their remedies. In Brazil, they pay travels for medical congresses in Miami and other touristic places that are in reality vacation travels , generally for all the family.
There's also a lobby of pharmaceutical companies.

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323149

Postby servodude » July 2nd, 2020, 3:07 am

look wrote:pharmaceutical companies are used to pay travels for the doctors that recommend their remedies. In Brazil, they pay travels for medical congresses in Miami and other touristic places that are in reality vacation travels , generally for all the family.
There's also a lobby of pharmaceutical companies.


yes that's commerce; that's how a lot of big businesses work
- the large homeopathy charlatans do the same, the difference is that their product is a scam

- sd

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323165

Postby Mike4 » July 2nd, 2020, 7:20 am

servodude wrote:
look wrote:pharmaceutical companies are used to pay travels for the doctors that recommend their remedies. In Brazil, they pay travels for medical congresses in Miami and other touristic places that are in reality vacation travels , generally for all the family.
There's also a lobby of pharmaceutical companies.


yes that's commerce; that's how a lot of big businesses work
- the large homeopathy charlatans do the same, the difference is that their product is a scam

- sd

Homeopathy works for sure. It uses the placebo effect. I never really understand why a benefit obtained by exploiting the placebo effect is rubbished by so many. Homeopathy fails double blind trials because these are designed to screen out the placebo effect.

There was a placebo effect trial I read about a few years ago where (IIRC) doctors told their patients they were prescribing a placebo (a sugar pill), and to take it if they wish because there is evidence the placebo effect is real. Some of those patients (not all) reported an improvement in their condition. More than the control group that was not offered a placebo.

Should those doctors have been stopped? Was it an unethical trial?

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323168

Postby johnhemming » July 2nd, 2020, 7:49 am

This is a good article, but probably requires a subscription.
https://www.newscientist.com/article/mg ... ys-so-far/

It discusses the different ways of fighting off Covid-19 and other coronaviruses and explains that immunity does not tend to last as long as say immunity to measles, but it does last. It also discusses the interplay between T and B lymphocytes.

Even if our immune memory of the coronavirus is short-lived, it is still a boon because we can improve on it. Functional immunity opens the door to vaccines to induce and strengthen immunity. “The kind of immunity you get from a vaccine is not necessarily going to be the same as natural immunity,” says Klenerman. “Vaccines are designed to generate really high levels of immune response. Hopefully we can do even better.”

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323171

Postby servodude » July 2nd, 2020, 8:15 am

Mike4 wrote:
servodude wrote:
look wrote:pharmaceutical companies are used to pay travels for the doctors that recommend their remedies. In Brazil, they pay travels for medical congresses in Miami and other touristic places that are in reality vacation travels , generally for all the family.
There's also a lobby of pharmaceutical companies.


yes that's commerce; that's how a lot of big businesses work
- the large homeopathy charlatans do the same, the difference is that their product is a scam

- sd

Homeopathy works for sure. It uses the placebo effect. I never really understand why a benefit obtained by exploiting the placebo effect is rubbished by so many. Homeopathy fails double blind trials because these are designed to screen out the placebo effect.

There was a placebo effect trial I read about a few years ago where (IIRC) doctors told their patients they were prescribing a placebo (a sugar pill), and to take it if they wish because there is evidence the placebo effect is real. Some of those patients (not all) reported an improvement in their condition. More than the control group that was not offered a placebo.

Should those doctors have been stopped? Was it an unethical trial?


No problem with placebo
Big problem with lies

-sd

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#323640

Postby look » July 4th, 2020, 1:31 am

look wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
look wrote:
Then i turn rebel. This remedy could help my father, and i couldn't give it to him, because of the bad people that rule the market.
The rules about medicines should be modified, and it's urgent.


Perhaps you are forgetting this:

https://helix.northwestern.edu/article/ ... regulation

They are not bad people, just cautious.

Trust me, the pharmaceutical companies would love it if they could skip much of the regulatory frameworks to rush drugs to market, delays cost them money and having a 10 year plus lead time for regulatory approval gives them a much smaller window in which to make their profits.

John



The problem of talidomide was the colateral effect. I don't think that because of this case the use of a medicine for different diseases should be prevented. The conclusion of that fact for me is that the colateral effects are more important
than effectiveness. Nowadays, I have seen several medicines with the warning that the colateral effects on pregnants was not studied and the recommendation is not to use it in pregnants.

The club of the bad guys include pharmaceuticals, doctors, authorities and the a part of the press. Difficult it is to know who does more bad actions.

I think if one wants to sell grass to cure some disease and if other wants to but it, it should be allowed. natural things shoud only be forbotten if is't clearly bad. Medicines without proof of effectibeness should be sold with a big warning.

Here a link for a text about the guy who distributed a cancer drug. I don't bet that it's all that for cancer, but I but this a miracoulos for help people to return to walk. It's in portuguese, there are references in English, but not with the other good work the guy does, a compound cheaper and better thatn silicone for fractured bones.

https://g1.globo.com/sp/sao-carlos-regi ... anos.ghtml



the article translated by google

https://translate.google.com.br/transla ... anos.ghtml

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health

#324485

Postby look » July 8th, 2020, 4:07 am

nterview with Venon Coleman.

Measures caused deaths.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdXXj1Q6jE

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#324486

Postby servodude » July 8th, 2020, 4:31 am

look wrote:nterview with Venon Coleman.
Measures caused deaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdXXj1Q6jE


His first couple of sentences include:
"a virus roughly the same as the flu"
"when the hoax, whatever you want to call it began"

I guess that sets the scene for the rest of it?

- sd

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#324547

Postby Mike4 » July 8th, 2020, 10:59 am

servodude wrote:
look wrote:nterview with Venon Coleman.
Measures caused deaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdXXj1Q6jE


His first couple of sentences include:
"a virus roughly the same as the flu"
"when the hoax, whatever you want to call it began"

I guess that sets the scene for the rest of it?

- sd


Yes this bloke has been peddling this line since the very start. I think Lord Sumption must have seen his early video. He says a lot of stuff that is right though in my opinion, if unpopular with Boris and Matt Hancock, starting at about 6 mins 30 sec in.

1) A lot of deaths have been caused by other treatments being stopped, e.g.cancer, due to gov't clearing the hospitals ready for the COVID patients.

2) A "huge percentage" of deaths were in care homes and caused by govt policies of "dumping all those patients into care homes". Those patients in his view "were murdered".

3) It isn't people who are old who should have been protected, it is those who are vulnerable. This includes the old, overweight, diabetes, BAME etc and been saying this since April.

4) 2m social distancing is a waste of time as virus is spread in aerosols that can travel 24ft from the sneezer. Social distancing if implemented, should therefore have be 24ft.

5) 2m is worst possible distance to choose as ineffective at preventing virus spread but highly effective at killing off business activity.

6) Sending untested people into care homes was either reckless and incompetent, or murder, and he cant understand why famous people aren't making a big issue out of this.

7) As many people have been killed by the lockdown as by the virus when you take into account cancer and other medical treatment withheld.

8) He forecasts this being used by the govt to get rid of cash and to make vaccination effectively compulsory. He also points out smart meters can be used to turn off electricity to your home if you say too much stuff the govt doesn't like. Just sayin', like.

9) BBC is the major source of lies and misleading info and the media as a whole has failed to challenge the govt on much of what they have done.

10) Members of the govt cannot possibly all be stupid and not realise all of the above, probably none of them are, so what is their ulterior motive for the way they have conducted this pandemic?


Broadly speaking I've done a near 180 degree turnaround In my opinion of him having listened to his views again (which I expected to find objectionable). I find myself agreeing with much of what he says. He gets very aerated in a very engaging way but goes a bit loopy at times. Even so, well worth listening to right to the end I suggest, despite being 42 mins long.

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Re: Coronavirus Health

#324567

Postby servodude » July 8th, 2020, 12:07 pm

Mike4 wrote:
servodude wrote:
look wrote:nterview with Venon Coleman.
Measures caused deaths.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvdXXj1Q6jE


His first couple of sentences include:
"a virus roughly the same as the flu"
"when the hoax, whatever you want to call it began"

I guess that sets the scene for the rest of it?

- sd


Yes this bloke has been peddling this line since the very start. I think Lord Sumption must have seen his early video. He says a lot of stuff that is right though in my opinion, if unpopular with Boris and Matt Hancock, starting at about 6 mins 30 sec in.

1) A lot of deaths have been caused by other treatments being stopped, e.g.cancer, due to gov't clearing the hospitals ready for the COVID patients.

2) A "huge percentage" of deaths were in care homes and caused by govt policies of "dumping all those patients into care homes". Those patients in his view "were murdered".

3) It isn't people who are old who should have been protected, it is those who are vulnerable. This includes the old, overweight, diabetes, BAME etc and been saying this since April.

4) 2m social distancing is a waste of time as virus is spread in aerosols that can travel 24ft from the sneezer. Social distancing if implemented, should therefore have be 24ft.

5) 2m is worst possible distance to choose as ineffective at preventing virus spread but highly effective at killing off business activity.

6) Sending untested people into care homes was either reckless and incompetent, or murder, and he cant understand why famous people aren't making a big issue out of this.

7) As many people have been killed by the lockdown as by the virus when you take into account cancer and other medical treatment withheld.

8) He forecasts this being used by the govt to get rid of cash and to make vaccination effectively compulsory. He also points out smart meters can be used to turn off electricity to your home if you say too much stuff the govt doesn't like. Just sayin', like.

9) BBC is the major source of lies and misleading info and the media as a whole has failed to challenge the govt on much of what they have done.

10) Members of the govt cannot possibly all be stupid and not realise all of the above, probably none of them are, so what is their ulterior motive for the way they have conducted this pandemic?


Broadly speaking I've done a near 180 degree turnaround In my opinion of him having listened to his views again (which I expected to find objectionable). I find myself agreeing with much of what he says. He gets very aerated in a very engaging way but goes a bit loopy at times. Even so, well worth listening to right to the end I suggest, despite being 42 mins long.


If you stop and think about it; do you really think that as many people have been killed by lockdown as the virus?
- really?

Consider Denmark, where net deaths dropped below average from the start of lock down; are Brits more sucidally miserable than Scandinavians? or more in to beating their family to death?
At best he's begging questions, but I suspect he's actually knowingly exploiting people's frustrations, disappointments and fears for his own gain.

Lockdown is shite; quarantine is shite; do you want to buy a really expensive lamp that will protect you from the virus?

-sd


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