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Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

Fitness tips, Relaxation, Mind and Body
MarshalMcEachern
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346074

Postby MarshalMcEachern » October 8th, 2020, 9:12 am

I believe COVID belongs to the cold group of virus infections, which means that neither herd immunity, nor a vaccine, will have any impact.

sg31
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346210

Postby sg31 » October 8th, 2020, 2:29 pm

MarshalMcEachern wrote:I believe COVID belongs to the cold group of virus infections, which means that neither herd immunity, nor a vaccine, will have any impact.


Can you give any evidence that the SARS-CoV-2 virus is a 'cold group virus' and define what you mean by that term.

I'm not aware of it being classified as such by any reputable research but I'm not upto date on the latest papers.

Lanark
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346256

Postby Lanark » October 8th, 2020, 4:56 pm

Wired have just run an effective takedown of that very paper, the so called 'Barrington Declaration' created by a libertarian think tank.

There is no ‘scientific divide’ over herd immunity
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/great-b ... fic-divide

Whenever I see something being put out by Libertarians, I basically stop reading, you just know it's going to be presenting a completely dumb argument.

johnhemming
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346268

Postby johnhemming » October 8th, 2020, 5:34 pm

Lanark wrote:There is no ‘scientific divide’ over herd immunity

There are various views held by scientists relating to this issue. Hence that title is clearly wrong. There is a divide over whether lockdowns are a good idea.

Otherwise I am not inclined to go through the article to pick out the erroneous bits. Substantially people are wedded to particular views here. It is IMO worth bringing new actual research or new statistical information to the debate, but this particular article does not as far as I can see add anything to the debate.

Mike4
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346310

Postby Mike4 » October 8th, 2020, 8:47 pm

Dr John Campbell posted a rather scathing dismantling of the Barrington Declaration is a typically very restrained manner today too.

Two points he made jumped out at me particularly.

1) Eminent scientists such as the three authors tend not to get to the top of the tree by being good at the science, rather by being particularly good at 'working the system', by getting to know the right people and saying the right things. So he has little respect for the views or the three authors.

2) Unsupported claims. He points out they make a lot of statements and claims in the document, none of which are supported with any references or any evidence. Most unscientific and leading to lack of credibility.

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346630

Postby look » October 10th, 2020, 5:36 am

the covid virus has a very simple virus.

more simplicity causes more mutations.

so we can expect that a vaccine will work only a short time period.

77ss
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346678

Postby 77ss » October 10th, 2020, 10:09 am

Mike4 wrote:Dr John Campbell posted a rather scathing dismantling of the Barrington Declaration is a typically very restrained manner today too.

Two points he made jumped out at me particularly.

1) Eminent scientists such as the three authors tend not to get to the top of the tree by being good at the science, rather by being particularly good at 'working the system', by getting to know the right people and saying the right things......



Quite right. However, the identical point applies to our senior civil servants. Getting to the top of the greasy pole is one thing. Being able to apply independent judgement thereafter is quite another. As for standing up to political pressure - I think we can forget that.

feder1
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#346834

Postby feder1 » October 11th, 2020, 6:29 am

This is interesting concerning ethnicity and virus deaths.

This study might help in any decision about who should be shielding in future. It should surely be important for health guidance immediately?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54476259

Oddly there was no mention of smoking habits which I would have thought might be relevent.

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#347238

Postby look » October 13th, 2020, 4:26 am

oh, how bad is mankind!

people don't stop on think about shielding, imposing restriction on the population or part of the population.

this virus has turned a threat to freedom, liberty.

i stick that the capsules vanessa are important. OK in australia they have discovered something like. Perhaps it's better, perhaps not, but it seems none is used worldwide. In my state, there's no news that somebody has adopted the vanessa capsules. In the local newspaper, i posted more than 20 times about the issue.

Some guys in Brazil have build a automated reanimator, part of the program fasten vita. it seems it's very good to diminish the doctor's work. Around the world, certainly there are many inventions that are useful, but the leaders the politicians are negative.

servodude
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#347240

Postby servodude » October 13th, 2020, 4:54 am

look wrote:oh, how bad is mankind!
people don't stop on think about shielding, imposing restriction on the population or part of the population.
this virus has turned a threat to freedom, liberty.
i stick that the capsules vanessa are important. OK in australia they have discovered something like. Perhaps it's better, perhaps not, but it seems none is used worldwide. In my state, there's no news that somebody has adopted the vanessa capsules. In the local newspaper, i posted more than 20 times about the issue.

Some guys in Brazil have build a automated reanimator, part of the program fasten vita. it seems it's very good to diminish the doctor's work. Around the world, certainly there are many inventions that are useful, but the leaders the politicians are negative.


HI look

I get your frustration; try not to worry too much - there's only so much that any individual can do.

Stay well
- sd

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#347827

Postby look » October 14th, 2020, 11:34 pm

in brazil, a group of reserchears created an automatic reanimator. In seceral cases, the doctors and/or nurses must stay close to the pacient to help him. The automatic reanimator prevents this dangerous situations.

the link is in portuguese, google can help to translate. I suppose the majority don't will read the link, but if the issue was lockdown almost all would read...

https://www.emaisgoias.com.br/pesquisad ... -covid-19/

servodude
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#347828

Postby servodude » October 14th, 2020, 11:38 pm

look wrote:in brazil, a group of reserchears created an automatic reanimator. In seceral cases, the doctors and/or nurses must stay close to the pacient to help him. The automatic reanimator prevents this dangerous situations.

the link is in portuguese, google can help to translate. I suppose the majority don't will read the link, but if the issue was lockdown almost all would read...

https://www.emaisgoias.com.br/pesquisad ... -covid-19/


Thanks Look
Google did a decent job of translating for me
I wonder if they look some inspiration from https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/archiveofnew ... 82_en.html

- sd

AsleepInYorkshire
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Covid 19

#348281

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » October 16th, 2020, 3:20 pm

Does anyone know where these statistics come from or are they made up please?

Gyms have an infection rate of 0.35 per 100,000 visits.

The County of Lancashire has a suicide rate of 12.8 per 100,000 people.

Thank you

AiY

Midsmartin
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Re: Covid 19

#348286

Postby Midsmartin » October 16th, 2020, 3:39 pm

The thing is that you're comparing apples and oranges.

The suicide rate appears correct, and it is of course measured per year.
If someone goes to the gym roughly once a week, then their personal chances of infection is now 0.35*50=17.5 in 100,000 over the year.

If you attempt to compare the annual suicide rate to infection rates in gyms, you would need to calculate the infection rate per year's worth of hours spent in the gym.

It's still comparing apples and oranges, I feel.

dealtn
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Re: Covid 19

#348295

Postby dealtn » October 16th, 2020, 4:01 pm

Midsmartin wrote:The thing is that you're comparing apples and oranges.

The suicide rate appears correct, and it is of course measured per year.
If someone goes to the gym roughly once a week, then their personal chances of infection is now 0.35*50=17.5 in 100,000 over the year.

If you attempt to compare the annual suicide rate to infection rates in gyms, you would need to calculate the infection rate per year's worth of hours spent in the gym.

It's still comparing apples and oranges, I feel.


Well you should also look at deaths from going to the gym versus suicides, not infections. Alternatively look at mental illness, or depression versus Covid infections. Comparing the worst outcome of one disease with the entire range of outcomes of the other is just as disingenuous.

look
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#348412

Postby look » October 17th, 2020, 4:57 am

servodude wrote:
look wrote:in brazil, a group of reserchears created an automatic reanimator. In seceral cases, the doctors and/or nurses must stay close to the pacient to help him. The automatic reanimator prevents this dangerous situations.

the link is in portuguese, google can help to translate. I suppose the majority don't will read the link, but if the issue was lockdown almost all would read...

https://www.emaisgoias.com.br/pesquisad ... -covid-19/


Thanks Look
Google did a decent job of translating for me
I wonder if they look some inspiration from https://www.gla.ac.uk/news/archiveofnew ... 82_en.html

- sd


It's possible that they look some inspiration from this source.

otherwise, one guy that had the virus said that the anticoagulant heparin was the most useful remedy for him. He is married with a doctor.

XFool
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#348661

Postby XFool » October 18th, 2020, 2:38 pm

Lanark wrote:Wired have just run an effective takedown of that very paper, the so called 'Barrington Declaration' created by a libertarian think tank.

There is no ‘scientific divide’ over herd immunity
https://www.wired.co.uk/article/great-b ... fic-divide

Whenever I see something being put out by Libertarians, I basically stop reading, you just know it's going to be presenting a completely dumb argument.

Me too!

Also: "A Libertarian's view on Global Warming"; "A Catholic's view on abortion" - You really don't need to read them, do you? You already know what you are going to get.

OK. You may need to read them the first time you ever come cross such an item, but that is usually sufficient.

XFool
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#348666

Postby XFool » October 18th, 2020, 2:46 pm

johnhemming wrote:
Lanark wrote:There is no ‘scientific divide’ over herd immunity

There are various views held by scientists relating to this issue. Hence that title is clearly wrong. There is a divide over whether lockdowns are a good idea.

Whoa!

"lockdowns" are lockdowns, "herd immunity" is herd immunity.

johnhemming wrote:Otherwise I am not inclined to go through the article to pick out the erroneous bits.

I only spotted one comment I clearly disagreed with.

johnhemming wrote: Substantially people are wedded to particular views here. It is IMO worth bringing new actual research or new statistical information to the debate, but this particular article does not as far as I can see add anything to the debate.

I think it points out, very clearly, what the Barrington Declaration is - and consequently, what it is not (which I felt was already obvious).

Lootman
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#348669

Postby Lootman » October 18th, 2020, 2:49 pm

XFool wrote:
Lanark wrote:Whenever I see something being put out by Libertarians, I basically stop reading, you just know it's going to be presenting a completely dumb argument.

Me too!

Also: "A Libertarian's view on Global Warming"; "A Catholic's view on abortion" - You really don't need to read them, do you? You already know what you are going to get.

OK. You may need to read them the first time you ever come cross such an item, but that is usually sufficient.

The problem with that argument is that you can apply it to almost everyone, because almost everyone has a predictable set of biases and viewpoints and, by your criterion, can therefore be ignored. For you that might be libertarians, for me it is socialists, to someone else it is whoever you happen to agree with.

That quickly degrades into a situation where you only read things by people you know you will agree with. That may feel comfortable but is really just confirmation bias on a broader scale. There is a reasonable argument that you have stopped learning anything new when you have decided who is right and who is wrong, and read accordingly.

And if I followed your rule I would read almost nobody here, because almost nobody here is unpredictable. I could make a list of Lemons and their prejudices but I won't.

johnhemming
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Re: Coronavirus Health - Please don't start another one here on H&W

#348676

Postby johnhemming » October 18th, 2020, 3:10 pm

XFool wrote:
johnhemming wrote: Substantially people are wedded to particular views here. It is IMO worth bringing new actual research or new statistical information to the debate, but this particular article does not as far as I can see add anything to the debate.

I think it points out, very clearly, what the Barrington Declaration is - and consequently, what it is not (which I felt was already obvious).


So you don't think it adds anything to the debate. On that we agree.


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