Coronavirus – opening letters and parcels

[Hypster]

Yes I get your point. Do you get mine?

Hi Dealtn, yes and I completely agree. I just wanted to clarify my previous comment as to why I think washing hands is good advice.

[Howard]

I hardly dare ask for comments

Having the butler iron it should kill any germs surely?

Many a true word is spoken in jest.

If you are in a vulnerable group and would enjoy reading the paper when it's "fresh", why not, carefully, iron it (cotton setting?) front and back? That's probably a brilliant way of re-assuring yourself that no virus can survive.

As dealtn suggests, the risks are very low anyway. Best to check that the cord to the iron isn't frayed as, if it is, you are probably more likely to die from electrocution than Covid.

regards

Howard

[Itsallaguess]

If it is extremely unlikely for someone doing 1,000s of such interactions consistently throughout the lockdown period and through the time when the virus was at its peak in the community, it must be extremely, extremely unlikely for the recipient of a single transaction to be exposed, and as a result get infected through this medium.

Every postman around my area has been wearing gloves for months now, so I'd say that their own physical exposure risk is really quite low. They are wearing that PPE because there is a risk to not doing so.

Those gloves touch an awful lot of things on the outside of the gloves though...

Just to be clear - I'm not at all suggesting that the risk via our letterbox is high - I'm just trying to highlight that when we pick anything up with our hands from our letterbox, it's unlikely to have been touched by an un-gloved hand for quite a lot of time prior to that point, and the outside of the glove that puts it through our letterboxes has touched an awful lot of things that day, on the other side of our doors...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess (who's not altered his post-opening process one bit since this all started...)

[Mike4]

I don’t think I expressed my point clearly. Let me try again.

The fact that an Amazon parcel has taken two days to arrive, or that the postie is wearing gloves does not mean that the risk of picking up the virus from surfaces of the mail has diminished.

My point was that an infected person elsewhere can transmit the virus to you without the two of you ever meeting, via the posties gloved hands. And without the postie getting the virus themselves.

Yes I get your point. Do you get mine?

A person receiving such a parcel is just one of many millions taking place. Given there are many millions taking place, and that the people most exposed to this, such as postmen and Amazon delivery drivers who will have taken literally 1,000s of deliveries during the lockdown period, aren't regularly being seen on the news or being spoken about as being particularly exposed, getting infected, dying etc. unlike some groups, it isn't hard to justify the claim that infection through this medium is extremely unlikely.

If it is extremely unlikely for someone doing 1,000s of such interactions consistently throughout the lockdown period and through the time when the virus was at its peak in the community, it must be extremely, extremely unlikely for the recipient of a single transaction to be exposed, and as a result get infected through this medium. I would expect the same to apply to newspapers.

Your postman or Amazon delivery driver is more likely to be injured that day in a road accident delivering his parcels than catching the virus from your parcel. I doubt he even considers the possibility of that road accident risk as he goes about his work.

Firstly, you have no idea how many postal and Amazon workers have the virus, because some cases (many, some argue) are asymptomatic. So some workers at the post office could be shedding virus but be feeling fine. Point is, that no-one knows how many people are infected asymptomatically yet shedding virus. It could be 0.001% of the population, it could be 50% of the population.

Secondly, there was a case in the news today where a building firm tested all of their apparently fit and healthy workforce and 53% tested positive. So it is quite possible that postal workers and Amazon delivery bods fall into the same bracket, ARE infected asymptomatically and are cheerfully spreading the virus as they go about their work. How would you know?

[dealtn]

I don’t think I expressed my point clearly. Let me try again.

The fact that an Amazon parcel has taken two days to arrive, or that the postie is wearing gloves does not mean that the risk of picking up the virus from surfaces of the mail has diminished.

My point was that an infected person elsewhere can transmit the virus to you without the two of you ever meeting, via the posties gloved hands. And without the postie getting the virus themselves.

Yes I get your point. Do you get mine?

A person receiving such a parcel is just one of many millions taking place. Given there are many millions taking place, and that the people most exposed to this, such as postmen and Amazon delivery drivers who will have taken literally 1,000s of deliveries during the lockdown period, aren't regularly being seen on the news or being spoken about as being particularly exposed, getting infected, dying etc. unlike some groups, it isn't hard to justify the claim that infection through this medium is extremely unlikely.

If it is extremely unlikely for someone doing 1,000s of such interactions consistently throughout the lockdown period and through the time when the virus was at its peak in the community, it must be extremely, extremely unlikely for the recipient of a single transaction to be exposed, and as a result get infected through this medium. I would expect the same to apply to newspapers.

Your postman or Amazon delivery driver is more likely to be injured that day in a road accident delivering his parcels than catching the virus from your parcel. I doubt he even considers the possibility of that road accident risk as he goes about his work.

Firstly, you have no idea how many postal and Amazon workers have the virus, because some cases (many, some argue) are asymptomatic. So some workers at the post office could be shedding virus but be feeling fine. Point is, that no-one knows how many people are infected asymptomatically yet shedding virus. It could be 0.001% of the population, it could be 50% of the population.

Secondly, there was a case in the news today where a building firm tested all of their apparently fit and healthy workforce and 53% tested positive. So it is quite possible that postal workers and Amazon delivery bods fall into the same bracket, ARE infected asymptomatically and are cheerfully spreading the virus as they go about their work. How would you know?

But even if they were, they would be doing so consistently. If that has been for the case for the months we have been locked down, and they have been working, has anything happened in the last few days to make them, as a group, suddenly much more infectious, and those who come into contact with their letters and parcels more at risk. I can't conceive of anything.

So, either they have been spreading the virus as they go about their work, as you say, and lots of people have become infected, but given the lack of media coverage of postman/amazon delivery drivers/paper boys, and their customers becoming ill and dying in meaningful numbers it is likely that infections from this source aren't harmful, or more likely there are very few infections occurring through this medium. Either way I don't see it as anything other than a very low risk activity.

If its 0.01% of the population, it is low risk, if it is 50% of the population, yet cases/deaths/R number have all fallen considerably, it is low risk. In many ways it would be better if it was 50% because if the level of infections/deaths we have had is associated with a current 50% infection fewer extra infections/deaths will occur to get to herd immunity and/or virus disappearing. I doubt it is 50% though.

[dealtn]

Those gloves touch an awful lot of things on the outside of the gloves though...

Including the face/nose/eyes of the posties!

[Itsallaguess]

Those gloves touch an awful lot of things on the outside of the gloves though...

Including the face/nose/eyes of the posties!

I hope you'll take my point though, that it's not quite as simple as saying 'there's a very low risk of opening your letters, because if there was a risk then we'd be hearing of all the postmen dying', because the post-men are wearing gloves...

They are mitigating risk themselves, and keeping any bad stuff on the outside of their gloves...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[didds]

are they using a separate set of gloves for each household? if not, and they have eg one set of gloves for an entire round, that's no different than not wearing gloves wrt spreading CV19 AIUI?

[Itsallaguess]

are they using a separate set of gloves for each household?

if not, and they have eg one set of gloves for an entire round, that's no different than not wearing gloves wrt spreading CV19 AIUI?

But that's the whole point....

It is different to not wearing gloves, because it's still protecting the wearer, but it's not necessarily protecting anyone else further downstream in the post-delivery process...

Earlier it was suggested that because the nation's posties aren't dropping like flies, then the risk of picking up our post must be minimal, because we're only picking ours up, and they're handling the post from the whole of their round.

But I've said that this isn't a fair assumption to make, because they are using PPE to protect themselves, and that PPE gives very little protection to the person picking up their own post, as the gloves used to deliver it is likely to have touched many, many things on any particular postal round...

The lack of postal-service deaths does not, therefore, accurately reflect the risk-vector that our own individual post might carry...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess (no change to post-opening habits....)

[didds]

are they using a separate set of gloves for each household?

if not, and they have eg one set of gloves for an entire round, that's no different than not wearing gloves wrt spreading CV19 AIUI?

But that's the whole point....

It is different to not wearing gloves, because it's still protecting the wearer, but it's not necessarily protecting anyone else further downstream in the delivery process...

ah, yes, got you.

Unless of course the postie sticks his gloved hands in his mouth etc ...

didds

[Jonetc15]

Very many belated thanks for everyone's time and trouble writing all the replies/comments. My wife has decided that she's not sorry to find that she's saving a lot of time glancing through them online!

Which brings me, with belated thanks, to:

Alternative thought on newspapers.

Does tired of reading them online actually mean tired of staring at a computer screen to read them?

If so, you might benefit from switching to an e-ink screen. Those are mostly found on e-readers, and many people find them easier on the eyes than a regular screen. Just take care what you get: some devices have blurred the distinction between e-reader and multimedia entertainment, so for example the kindle fire is just a small tablet without the advantages of a reader.

A typical (if I may say so) bit of lateral thinking. In fact I'm happy reading the papers online, but until lockdown/Covid-19 we used to read the papers together, especially at weekends, in a companionable way, occasionally commenting etc. I rather miss this decades-old habit, and am likely to get the papers delivered and see what happens - with a glass or two of wine from noon onwards...

All the best to all

Jon