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Wood-burning pollution

Fitness tips, Relaxation, Mind and Body
JohnB
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387635

Postby JohnB » February 18th, 2021, 8:58 am

If you don't burn the wood, what would happen to it? For you and your neighbours the environmentally best thing would be a gently rotting woodpile, but if you would just have a bonfire of wet wood, that would be worse. The same applies to much non-commercial wood, pallets etc. And without a market, commercial forestry would cease and the woodland wouldn't be managed, to the detriment of wildlife.

I worry that a ban on wood-burning stoves would become a ban on bonfires, which would be an environmental disaster near me in Outer London. Boroughs charge to collect garden waste, and reject stuff thicker than your thumb, so any bonfire ban would generate a huge flytip problem in the local nature reserves. And I do a lot of work in those reserves, where bonfires are vital part of woodland management, as you can only have so many wood and brash piles.

There is a market for waste wood, a power station near Ramsgate thinks its worth driving 60 miles to coppice sweet chestnut from here, but without joined up thinking a ban will have ripple consequences.

JohnB
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387639

Postby JohnB » February 18th, 2021, 9:06 am

Mike4 wrote:
I was delighted to be able to contradict him and explain that despite his exalted status it was definitely a Norman arch, as they were lovingly hand-made in our joinery department, by our joiner, Norman.


I trust you also employed some Goths, and an Old English bloke, and had an Arthur doing inspections.

Arborbridge
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387640

Postby Arborbridge » February 18th, 2021, 9:10 am

JohnB wrote:If you don't burn the wood, what would happen to it? For you and your neighbours the environmentally best thing would be a gently rotting woodpile, but if you would just have a bonfire of wet wood, that would be worse. The same applies to much non-commercial wood, pallets etc. And without a market, commercial forestry would cease and the woodland wouldn't be managed, to the detriment of wildlife.

I worry that a ban on wood-burning stoves would become a ban on bonfires, which would be an environmental disaster near me in Outer London. Boroughs charge to collect garden waste, and reject stuff thicker than your thumb, so any bonfire ban would generate a huge flytip problem in the local nature reserves. And I do a lot of work in those reserves, where bonfires are vital part of woodland management, as you can only have so many wood and brash piles.

There is a market for waste wood, a power station near Ramsgate thinks its worth driving 60 miles to coppice sweet chestnut from here, but without joined up thinking a ban will have ripple consequences.


As you say, a ban would be full of unintended consequences and even if "thought though" would be open to a few surprises.

However, I'm not sure about "detrimental to wildlife" having much weight. It seems to me that anything which humans do is detrimental to that, and the best way of improving the lot of wildlife is a cull of humankind.

Arb.

vrdiver
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387642

Postby vrdiver » February 18th, 2021, 9:11 am

We built an outside pizza oven and fuel it with locally sourced wood, donations from neighbours' gardens and so on, so none of it is dried or aged before it gets to us. I age it for a couple of years in a stacked pile (pallet underneath and airspace between top of logs and the wooden "roof" that keeps the rain off, so they do dry out a bit before use.

Even so, the oven would belch smoke until it got properly warmed up, which can be embarrassing, if not downright antisocial. My solution was to connect a diving cylinder via an extended pipe so as to force air into the fire, similar to the results achieved by a blacksmith's bellows. The result is no more smoke and a shorter time to reach cooking temperature. Once the fire is "roaring" the extra air can be switched off as the fire creates its own draw.

That experience makes me wonder whether the internal fires that are generating particulates might also benefit from a better airflow, especially when first lit? A fan (or even bellows!) might make more sense than an air cylinder though!

VRD

swill453
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387643

Postby swill453 » February 18th, 2021, 9:17 am

vrdiver wrote:We built an outside pizza oven and fuel it with locally sourced wood, donations from neighbours' gardens and so on, so none of it is dried or aged before it gets to us. I age it for a couple of years in a stacked pile (pallet underneath and airspace between top of logs and the wooden "roof" that keeps the rain off, so they do dry out a bit before use.

Even so, the oven would belch smoke until it got properly warmed up, which can be embarrassing, if not downright antisocial. My solution was to connect a diving cylinder via an extended pipe so as to force air into the fire, similar to the results achieved by a blacksmith's bellows. The result is no more smoke and a shorter time to reach cooking temperature. Once the fire is "roaring" the extra air can be switched off as the fire creates its own draw.

That experience makes me wonder whether the internal fires that are generating particulates might also benefit from a better airflow, especially when first lit? A fan (or even bellows!) might make more sense than an air cylinder though!

I went for lunch at a quaint Greek tavern in the mountains of Crete. Their specialism was barbecued goat.

I noticed in the outside kitchen area the chef got the barbecue going with a big chrome-plated hair drier...

Scott.

JohnB
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387646

Postby JohnB » February 18th, 2021, 9:29 am

I believe liquid oxygen is thought to be the fastest way to light your BBQ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sab2Ltm1WcM

88V8
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387655

Postby 88V8 » February 18th, 2021, 10:04 am

vrdiver wrote:makes me wonder whether the internal fires that are generating particulates might also benefit from a better airflow, especially when first lit?

There is a fundamental incompatibility between a 'draught-free' house and an open fire or woodburner.
Fires need a good air supply to burn well.
Houses sealed up tight as a drum by insulation obsessives are completely unsuited to burning wood or coal, indeed anything except toast.
Woodburners over 5kw nominal need a permanent air vent, but smaller ones don't. At least according to the regs.

JohnB wrote:I believe liquid oxygen is thought to be the fastest way to light your BBQ. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sab2Ltm1WcM

Mmm, liquid oxygen, and flame. What could go wrong....
Mind you, I bet people wouldn't moan about woodburners if the smoke smelt of rump steak :)

V8

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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387740

Postby PinkDalek » February 18th, 2021, 2:44 pm

JohnB wrote:... Boroughs charge to collect garden waste, and reject stuff thicker than your thumb ...


It might depend on thumb size.

Ours permits branches up to 8" diameter and 24" length.

Keeps me fit chopping the stuff up!

Nimrod103
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387848

Postby Nimrod103 » February 18th, 2021, 9:50 pm

88V8 wrote:There is a fundamental incompatibility between a 'draught-free' house and an open fire or woodburner.


Not entirely true. We have an open fire with ash pans sunk below floor level, and an air intake at that level, so drawing air in from under the floorboards. So not much air is drawn in from the room. It has Baxi written on it. I guess it was installed in about 1980.

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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387862

Postby Dod101 » February 18th, 2021, 11:49 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
88V8 wrote:There is a fundamental incompatibility between a 'draught-free' house and an open fire or woodburner.


Not entirely true. We have an open fire with ash pans sunk below floor level, and an air intake at that level, so drawing air in from under the floorboards. So not much air is drawn in from the room. It has Baxi written on it. I guess it was installed in about 1980.


I had one of those in my previous house and I think your date is about right. They were popular at the time.

Dod

88V8
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Re: Wood-burning pollution

#387934

Postby 88V8 » February 19th, 2021, 11:45 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
88V8 wrote:There is a fundamental incompatibility between a 'draught-free' house and an open fire or woodburner.

Not entirely true. We have an open fire with ash pans sunk below floor level, and an air intake at that level, so drawing air in from under the floorboards. So not much air is drawn in from the room. It has Baxi written on it. I guess it was installed in about 1980.

Good.
In our previous house I put vents in the skirting adjacent to the fires, they communicated with the underfloor.
But that's rare. Few people think about a fire's need for air, they just vaguely assume it will take its air from the room and then wonder why the chimney smokes.

And in the bathroom where I installed a DGF, I made a vent to the outside. But it did have a shutter for when the fire was not in use. Masochism only goes so far.

V8


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