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Zoloft

Fitness tips, Relaxation, Mind and Body
bjmarren
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Zoloft

#431381

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 9:50 am

Hi All,

My wife has been prescribed Zoloft, to help with her anxiety issues. This is accompanied with sleeping problems. As always she reads the accompanying documentation that goes with all medicines, that mainly deals with the possible side effects that may occur as a result of using the medicine. This always worries her, although I do explain that pharmaceutical companies list these possible side effects, to ensure that they are covering their corporate butts in case someone suffers badly or even dies from using the medicine, as they can say that it was listed as a possible consequence, even if the possibility is very, very slight.

My question was has anyone had dealings with Zoloft, either directly or indirectly, and what were their impressions of it? Also, does anyone know of alternatives. Here in Bulgaria, my impressions of Level 1 and 2 Healthcare, i.e. GPs and Specialists are fairly negative. Even when asking for more Homopaethic options, the response is usually, "I'm not aware of such options". We've even had responses of "There aren't alternatives". We're looking at Lifestyle changes, such as Yoga, Meditation etc, but at the moment we still need medicine to cope with things.

Would be grateful for anyone's thoughts or advice.

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431382

Postby swill453 » July 30th, 2021, 9:56 am

bjmarren wrote:Also, does anyone know of alternatives. Here in Bulgaria, my impressions of Level 1 and 2 Healthcare, i.e. GPs and Specialists are fairly negative. Even when asking for more Homopaethic options, the response is usually, "I'm not aware of such options". We've even had responses of "There aren't alternatives".

Fairly similar situation here.

"In 2017 NHS England said it would no longer fund homeopathy on the NHS as the lack of any evidence for its effectiveness did not justify the cost. This was backed by a High Court judgement in 2018.". https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/homeopathy/

Scott.

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Re: Zoloft

#431383

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 9:58 am

As an addition to the above, she's using "Clonareks" to help her to sleep, as an interim measure until Zoloft really kicks in which is meant to be a couple more weeks. However, Clonareks main function is dealing with Epilepsy, according to the accompanying documentation, despite strong denials from a Neurologist and her current Psychiatrist.

Angry and frustrated!

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431385

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 10:04 am

[quote][Fairly similar situation here.

"In 2017 NHS England said it would no longer fund homeopathy on the NHS as the lack of any evidence for its effectiveness did not justify the cost. This was backed by a High Court judgement in 2018.". https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/homeopathy/

Scott./quote]

Thanks for that Scott, interesting. I should add that when I said "homeopathic", I should have specified "herbal" more specifically.

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431387

Postby swill453 » July 30th, 2021, 10:11 am

bjmarren wrote:I should add that when I said "homeopathic", I should have specified "herbal" more specifically.

Ah, so completely different then. Sorry for diversion.

Scott.

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Re: Zoloft

#431486

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 2:11 pm

Hi Scott,

No problem. My failure to translate accurately was the diversion!

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431496

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » July 30th, 2021, 2:48 pm

I personally take citalopram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citalopram which seems (from the wiki) to be quite similar to Zoloft. That is both are SSRIs.

It's very good (in combination preferably with CBT) for anxiety, OCD, sleep issues (as many such ultimately are rooted in anxiety). I have taken these for several years. Citalopram takes about 6-12 weeks to get used to and get over the side effects. At least it did for me. Same deal for most SSRIs I think.

Anyway AFAIC the benefits outweigh the side effects, and neurological alternatives are at times grim.

HTH
Matt

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Re: Zoloft

#431510

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 30th, 2021, 3:51 pm

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:I personally take citalopram https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citalopram which seems (from the wiki) to be quite similar to Zoloft. That is both are SSRIs.

It's very good (in combination preferably with CBT) for anxiety, OCD, sleep issues (as many such ultimately are rooted in anxiety). I have taken these for several years. Citalopram takes about 6-12 weeks to get used to and get over the side effects. At least it did for me. Same deal for most SSRIs I think.

Anyway AFAIC the benefits outweigh the side effects, and neurological alternatives are at times grim.

HTH
Matt

Having taken SSRIs myself - to treat depression - for some time quite a few years ago, I am sceptical about their widespread usage although some people do find them useful. According to this (slightly out of date):

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/prescribed-medicines-review-report/prescribed-medicines-review-summary

about 17% of the adult population take them. It is rather disturbing that such a high proportion of the population needs to take them IMHO. I'm glad that Psilocybin is getting more attention - and losing some of the taboo that surrounds it.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/apr/14/magic-mushroom-psilocybin-show-promise-treatment-depression-clinical-trial-finds

Psilocybin has been used for thousands of years and according to some researchers (by analysis of pottery) may have played a part in the Greek Mysteries, possibly the main role. Some trials by David Nutt and others have shown Psilocybin to be vastly superior to SSRIs for treating depression and other neurological problems. Although Psilocybin is unfortunately illegal (to dry or prepare) in the UK, grow-your-own mushroom kits can be bought from the Netherlands.

RC

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Re: Zoloft

#431527

Postby kempiejon » July 30th, 2021, 5:06 pm

bjmarren wrote:Thanks for that Scott, interesting. I should add that when I said "homeopathic", I should have specified "herbal" more specifically.

Brendan


By herbal did you mean medical cannabis? For anxiety, agoraphobia and insomnia I understand there's some clinical and anecdotal evidence it works but for paranoia not so much...

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Re: Zoloft

#431555

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 6:43 pm

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply and the link to Wiki, which is full of information. Could I ask if it has generally worked for you and what if any are the regular side effects. I appreciate you may not want to discuss this on a forum, so no problem.

An issue my wife has is that although all the Doctors say there is alack of seretonin, there doesn't seem to be a way of measuring a person's seretonin level. Info on Wiki seems to suggest that my wife has General Anxiety Disorder, according to the symptoms associated with this.

We'll be talking to her Psychiatrist tomorrow and have a number of questions for her.

Keep safe and well.

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431557

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 6:49 pm

Hi RC,

Thanks for your reply.

May I ask if the SSRI's worked for you, despite your scepticism about their worldwide usage. Hope you are fully recovered now.

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431560

Postby bjmarren » July 30th, 2021, 6:52 pm

Hi kempjohn,

Thanks you for your reply.

By herbal I wasn't specifically thinking of medical cannabis, but it helped to reduce some of the side effects that are always listed with SSIRs the I think many people, including my wife would be interested in it.

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431619

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » July 31st, 2021, 8:38 am

bjmarren wrote:Hi Matt,

Thanks for your reply and the link to Wiki, which is full of information. Could I ask if it has generally worked for you and what if any are the regular side effects. I appreciate you may not want to discuss this on a forum, so no problem.

An issue my wife has is that although all the Doctors say there is alack of seretonin, there doesn't seem to be a way of measuring a person's seretonin level. Info on Wiki seems to suggest that my wife has General Anxiety Disorder, according to the symptoms associated with this.

We'll be talking to her Psychiatrist tomorrow and have a number of questions for her.

Keep safe and well.

Brendan

Hi Brendan,

Citalopram has most definitely worked for me! The science behind SSRIs is very logical and having one's Serotonin level is key to so many of our brain and bodies functions.

To fully have my heart on my sleeve, I suffered from OCD since my early 20s. OCD is rooted in anxiety and an unsatisfied continuous need for ontological security. However, many neurological issues are kinda circular, so to speak, and feedback loops can form where depression, anxiety, OCD, intrusive thoughts, insomnia fuel each other. I was first prescribed citalopram in about 2011, by a Doctor to alleviate what he saw as anxiety/depression. It eventually made me feel somewhat better once the dosage was increased from 10, then 20 then 30mg. In 2013 a house move precipitated a whole change in perspective and later that year I weaned myself off citalopram. In early 2016 various events triggered a new spiral into anxiety/depression. This time in addition, to seeing the Doctor and being re prescribed citalopram, I self-referred for mental health therapy.

The therapy sessions (I had about 16) blew my mind. The shrink quickly diagnosed OCD as being the root of all the issues. Stemming from anxiety creating situations, you've guessed it, encountered in childhood. The therapy (talking) sessions helped me expose those past events. I learnt more about OCD, CBT, and after those 16 weeks quit the therapy since my shrink was very pleased with the outcome expressing her opinion that my rational mind had helped me see my way through many of the thoughts. I'm sure however, that this occurred very much in combination with elevated serotonin levels, since OCD can be a really tough nut to crack I found, especially when one is also trying manage all of the other stress raisers in life, family, job, house etc.

In addition to the above I also taught myself mindful meditation, which I do every single night just before bed. Sometimes I'll do the odd bit in the day time too, but not that often, it's generally a night time thing for me. So for me it was/is the combination of successful therapy, SSRIs and regular mindfullness that cracked it.

Finally, side-effects. For me I'd say they were minimal. For the first few weeks, I'd suffer a slightly tight tummy and heartburny feeling for an hour or so after taking the meds. I always have the meds first thing in the morning and always have a light breakfast. However these slight, some call it nausea feelings, went away very soon, within the first month IIRC. The other side-effect, is that SSRIs seem to work "almost against you" while you get used to the effects. I think that one isn't used to the extra serotonin flying around and sometimes this makes you a little bit "edgy" a first. That's probably why practitioners will err on starting a low dosage and gradually increasing it over time. I now have 40mg/day (the maximum is 60mg I believe). And I have zero noticeable side effects, and if there are any "unnoticeable" ones, I'll disregard those, since the health effects of the alternative, being in a permanent state of anxiety/alertness, are far worse IMHO.

One final point. I sincerely believe SSRIs are only part of the cure. For any sufferer the trick, IMO, is to unlock the childhood/early life events which have helped to create the situation in the first place. That's why therapy and an open mind also have a part to play.

Matt

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Re: Zoloft

#431638

Postby ReformedCharacter » July 31st, 2021, 10:11 am

bjmarren wrote:Hi RC,

Thanks for your reply.

May I ask if the SSRI's worked for you, despite your scepticism about their worldwide usage. Hope you are fully recovered now.

Brendan

They may have worked a bit, but I cannot honestly say because there was no 'I don't feel so depressed anymore' feeling. I certainly suffered from some of the side-effects such as sexual dysfunction and when I stopped taking them (I took them for about 5 years) I had some fairly unpleasant withdrawal symptoms, commonly called the 'zaps' which lasted for about 6 months. In my case, the sexual dysfunction is permanent despite having stopped taking the SSRI (Citalopram in my case) about 15 years ago. To be honest I wish I'd never taken them at all. However, that's just my experience and I know that they do work for some people and I'm very glad to read that they work for TheMotorcycleBoy because I know how devastating depression can be. One of my objections to SSRIs is the way they are prescribed. For example, my wife is menopausal and has suffered from some hormonal issues, she went to see her GP who suggested a SSRI despite the fact that she wasn't suffering from depression. My wife eventually found a doctor, privately, who understands women's hormones and prescribed some hormone replacements. So, it seems that GPs find it very convenient to prescribe them without looking at the underlying cause of depression, and given their widespread use I would guess that my wife's experience is not unusual. There's plenty of discussion about both depression and SSRIs on Youtube and I would recommend watching some of the videos with Johann Hari who talks about both subjects. Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hfl3Yh7fS4g

I wouldn't say that I am 'fully recovered' because I think I have a general disposition towards depression and I don't expect that to change, it's the way I'm made. But the treatment I mentioned in my previous post which I take 3 or 4 times a year has been been profoundly helpful to me.

RC

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Re: Zoloft

#431661

Postby GrahamPlatt » July 31st, 2021, 11:04 am

If you are looking for a herbal remedy instead of mainstream drugs, you might consider St John’s Wort.

Be advised NOT to use it in addition to an SSRI etc.

Useful links here:

https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/st-joh ... n-in-depth

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals ... 0CBDC30C3A

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/28064110/

Lots more where they came from, but the basic message is that it is about equal in effect to SSRIs, although both are barely better than placebo.

FWIW I’d suggest you stick with the Zoloft for a few months and see if it helps.

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Re: Zoloft

#431704

Postby bjmarren » July 31st, 2021, 4:37 pm

Hi Matt,

Thanks for your very frank and open reply,

My wife has always been anxious and a bad sleeper from an early age, but lock-down last year exacerbated things, as it did for many people. We see the problem, at the moment, as more related to not being able to sleep as it seems as bedtime approaches, she has thoughts about not being able to sleep and this brings on even more anxiety. Your comments on therapy sessions certainly struck a chord and it's something we need to investigate, but as people were locked away for such things here, in the not too distant past, I'm pessimistic about finding professional help for her in this field, but we'll persevere. Your comments on mindful meditation also stood as we've discussed this but didn't really know where to start.

Any advice here?

As regards side effects, my wife religously reads all the accompanying literature with the medicine and this only serves to increase her anxiety about the medicine.

We really appreciate you taking the time to pass on your experience and thoughts about this, as you have real and personal knowledge, whereas the Doctors/Psychiatrists do not always have this.

Best regards,

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431715

Postby bjmarren » July 31st, 2021, 4:59 pm

Hi RC,

Thanks for your very honest reply.

Your comment about how Doctors/GPs prescribe SSRIs struck a chord as it seems to be their catch all for a number of things. We believe my wife's condition is General Anxiety Disorder, but her inability to actually sleep during the night is the main reason she suffers from anxiety at the moment, although general anxiety has always been a problem with her. She's been prescribed Zoflot, a SSRI, whereas she actually needs some medication to actually sleep. Another example of the Doctor failing to understand the real problem. It was good your wife found someone who really understood her situation and was able to prescribe something appropriate. This is the 3rd Psychiatrist we're trying in addition to a Psychologist! As I mentioned in an earlier email, my opinion of GPs and Specialists here in Bulgaria is very low.

Once again thank for the time you have given in replying and passing on your experience and thoughts, it has been extremely helpful.

Keep healthy,

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431721

Postby bjmarren » July 31st, 2021, 5:09 pm

Hi GrahamPlatt,

Thank you for your reply and links, we'll definitely take a look at them.

Coincidentally, "kempjohn" in an email, made reference to medicinal cannabis as a source of medicine, and below is a link to a BBC article about 3 rugby players who make us of "Cannabidiol" for a number of medical reasons, including helping to sleep at night.

https://www.bbc.com/sport/rugby-union/57415192

Brendan

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Re: Zoloft

#431733

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » July 31st, 2021, 5:55 pm

As one or two are aware I've had an interesting journey with my health over a considerable part of my life. And I'm currently still working on issues connected with my condition. Frustrating.

It's always deeply saddening to hear of anyone's health problems.

Hopefully I'll be forgiven for thinking that because I've endured 46 years of sleep issues and the mental health problems that go with it that I am an expert on the subject. The reality is I'm not.

Offering support and help over the internet has extreme limitations. So I'm not going to labour my response.

A lack of sleep will lead to feelings of anxiety. That's only one of the symptoms. I'd suggest you keep an open mind regarding your wife's sleep issues. Until the underlying cause is identified and treated correctly then any immediate treatments may be short term management of the symptoms and not the cause.

I'd like to offer a couple of areas that may be worth ruling out as you move forward, if they haven't already been
  • Perimenopause
  • Thyroids
  • Diabetes
  • Obstructive or central sleep apnea
  • Non celiac gluten hypersensitivity
  • Lactose intolerance
  • SAD
You may not have been told that SSRI's should be taken in the morning not at night. Taken at night they can disrupt sleep.

AiY

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Re: Zoloft

#431805

Postby bjmarren » August 1st, 2021, 9:47 am

Hi AIY,

Thank you for your post, and so sorry to hear about your struggles over such a long period of time.

The list of areas to look a,t as we deal with things, was very illuminating and whilst none of them flagged up an immediate potential problem, we will certainly look into them, and thank you again for highlighting them, and we'll certainly keep an open mind about these. We're more and more convinced that her lack of sleep is the main factor beyond the increased feelings of anxiety, certainly at the moment. At the moment we're particularly concentrating on the period leading up to preparing to go to sleep, as this period seems to increase her anxiety, as she worries about not being able to get anywhere near a decent nights sleep. Last night saw an improvement, but it was only one night out of many bad ones.
She is only taking the SSRI in the morning and at lunchtime, but thank you for the heads up about not taking them at night.

I really hope you see an improvement in your condition as only people who have struggles in this area can fully appreciate how debilitating it can be to a person's daily well being.

Regards,

Brendan


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