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My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 3:56 pm
by MDW1954
Same caveats as with the previous posting, here:
https://www.lemonfool.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=87&t=33178Anyway, enjoy! What is most instructive about this version of the spreadsheet is to see what has changed, eg the complete reversal with Tritax Big Box.
MDW1954
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 5:09 pm
by funduffer
Great spreadsheet, and timely - I am looking at REITs for my HYP currently. I have British Land, which doesn't seem to be on the spreadsheet for some reason. Maybe I am confusing REITs and property companies?
I see that the premia and discounts vary massively, I assume due to the nature of the type of property held - in or out of favour? Presumably city commercial property is out, and warehouses and logistics are in? Quite honestly, I don't know enough about property to know how the market is behaving currently. I am sure the high rats of inflation are affecting REITs, I am just not sure how!
I am tempted by Tritax. I was a bit put off by its high premium last time, but now it as at a good, but not excessive discount. 3.29% yield though is hardly HYPish.
I think I need to do more in depth research to understand a bit more about each company.
FD
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 5:15 pm
by BullDog
Thanks. At around 7% discount but a yield around 3%, I don't see much attraction towards BBOX myself at the moment.
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 5:36 pm
by MDW1954
funduffer wrote:I have British Land, which doesn't seem to be on the spreadsheet for some reason. Maybe I am confusing REITs and property companies?
FD
It simply means that British Land isn't a member of the AIC. If they don't quote the data, I can't use it!
MDW1954
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 5:40 pm
by dealtn
MDW1954 wrote:funduffer wrote:I have British Land, which doesn't seem to be on the spreadsheet for some reason. Maybe I am confusing REITs and property companies?
FD
It simply means that British Land isn't a member of the AIC. If they don't quote the data, I can't use it!
MDW1954
You chose not to use it - it is available elsewhere.
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 9:08 pm
by MDW1954
dealtn wrote:MDW1954 wrote:funduffer wrote:I have British Land, which doesn't seem to be on the spreadsheet for some reason. Maybe I am confusing REITs and property companies?
FD
It simply means that British Land isn't a member of the AIC. If they don't quote the data, I can't use it!
MDW1954
You chose not to use it - it is available elsewhere.
I didn't "choose not to use it", dealtn. As a data-scraping novice, I chose to match my online real-time automatic data extraction capabilities with data sources that were meaningfully usable.
Feel free to post your own spreadsheets from all these sources that are so readily available elsewhere.
Rather than carp at others' efforts, I chose to post what I could. Oh, I'm sorry, that's not your style.
MDW1954
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 9:57 pm
by Dod101
Well MDW, fact is that you did not say where your data came from. What it shows of course is that those REITs in favour are at a premium and those not are at a discount, but the other fact is that this list is far from a comprehensive view of the REIT universe so it does throw into question just how useful the spreadsheet is. Most of the big property companies, although REITs, are missing, for instance. Just because they are not members of the AIC, should not disqualify them.
Dod
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 10:50 pm
by monabri
Dod101 wrote:Well MDW, fact is that you did not say where your data came from. What it shows of course is that those REITs in favour are at a premium and those not are at a discount, but the other fact is that this list is far from a comprehensive view of the REIT universe so it does throw into question just how useful the spreadsheet is. Most of the big property companies, although REITs, are missing, for instance. Just because they are not members of the AIC, should not disqualify them.
Dod
Didn't MDW's post outline his source ( Google Finance & AIC) ?
MDW said..
"Same caveats as with the previous posting, here:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=33178"
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 11:00 pm
by Dod101
monabri wrote:Dod101 wrote:Well MDW, fact is that you did not say where your data came from. What it shows of course is that those REITs in favour are at a premium and those not are at a discount, but the other fact is that this list is far from a comprehensive view of the REIT universe so it does throw into question just how useful the spreadsheet is. Most of the big property companies, although REITs, are missing, for instance. Just because they are not members of the AIC, should not disqualify them.
Dod
Didn't MDW's post outline his source ( Google Finance & AIC) ?
MDW said..
"Same caveats as with the previous posting, here:
viewtopic.php?f=87&t=33178"
Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 5th, 2022, 11:47 pm
by MDW1954
Dod101 wrote:Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
I really don't know what I can do here. I find a way to data-scrape useful-looking data of interest to HYPers, and post it.
Instantly up pop a host of people carping that that I've not posted the right data, or that I've got some kind of agenda, through exhibiting biased selection.
In vain, I trawl the forum for their own data-scraping exercises, but draw a strange blank...
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.
MDW1954
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 7:12 am
by Dod101
MDW1954 wrote:Dod101 wrote:Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
I really don't know what I can do here. I find a way to data-scrape useful-looking data of interest to HYPers, and post it.
Instantly up pop a host of people carping that that I've not posted the right data, or that I've got some kind of agenda, through exhibiting biased selection.
In vain, I trawl the forum for their own data-scraping exercises, but draw a strange blank...
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.
MDW1954
Well I have tried to be helpful in my quoted comments and cannot add much more to what I have already said. I am sorry you have reacted the way you have but I guess I can understand it.
Dod
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 7:19 am
by Wasron
Thanks for posting this MDW.
Tritax Big Box and Eurobox are looking interesting to me, the latter even more so as I understand that online retail is far less developed in the rest of Europe (than the UK).
Wasron
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 8:19 am
by 77ss
Wasron wrote:Thanks for posting this MDW.
Tritax Big Box and Eurobox are looking interesting to me, the latter even more so as I understand that online retail is far less developed in the rest of Europe (than the UK).
Wasron
A number of logistics REITS are interesting. SGRO and LMP as well as the above two.
For general comments on this sector (and others), the recent finals from the broad-based property investment trust TRY are worth a browse:
https://www.investegate.co.uk/tr-proper ... 00104820N/
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 8:51 am
by dealtn
MDW1954 wrote:Dod101 wrote:Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
I really don't know what I can do here. I find a way to data-scrape useful-looking data of interest to HYPers, and post it.
Instantly up pop a host of people carping that that I've not posted the right data, or that I've got some kind of agenda, through exhibiting biased selection.
In vain, I trawl the forum for their own data-scraping exercises, but draw a strange blank...
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.
MDW1954
I'm sorry you feel like that, and I wasn't denigrating your efforts to supply something in an easy form for those unable, or unwilling, to do so themselves.
My comment was merely to point out the data exists, and were you to wish to use it for that altruistic purpose of sharing it, you could do so. Similarly others could find it. Otherwise what is provided is an incomplete data series, which might not be obvious to its intended audience. Presumably the reason for the first reply.
I have no interest (or ability) in data scraping. My data is either paid for (and therefore unable to be shared) or manual, in which case I do share it via other means on boards such as Company Share news, or Stocks and Share Dealing Discussions.
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 9:25 am
by funduffer
Out of interest, I downloaded the top yielding 'Property Investment Trusts' from ShareCast (not the easiest of websites to navigate!). Working out the premia/discounts for these would take a bit more work, unless they are on the AIC website.
Regional REIT Limited 7.81%
Civitas Social Housing 6.48%
Ground Rents Income Fund 6.10%
Triple Point Social Housing Reit 5.75%
Highcroft Investment 5.74%
Ediston Property Investment Company 5.58%
Impact Healthcare Reit 5.15%
Residential Secure Income 5.04%
Land Securities Group 4.83%
Primary Health Properties 4.26%
British Land Company 4.21%
Warehouse Reit 4.10%
LXI Reit 3.85%
BMO Commercial Property Trust Limited 3.69%
PRS Reit (The) 3.68%
LondonMetric Property 3.65%
Hibernia Reit (CDI) 3.39%
Tritax Big Box Reit 3.35%
Secure Income Reit 3.23%
Big Yellow Group 3.19%
The ones in bold are not on the AIC website (and therefore not in MDW's list). My conclusion is that selecting property company investments is quite difficult, and involves looking around a few websites for information.
Thanks to MDW for posting. I am always grateful to people who take the time and trouble to post investment selections, as it generates new ideas.
FD
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 9:35 am
by funduffer
The BPF website is quite helpful regarding property investment (
https://bpf.org.uk/about-real-estate/pr ... nvestment/ )
In terms of the different types of investments they state this:
Property investors use a variety of different legal entities to own property depending on who their investors are and what their investment aims are, including:
Limited companies – like those used by businesses across the economy. These can be public (i.e. listed on a stock exchange) or private.
REITs – these are listed property companies subject to special tax rules that mean they pay no corporation tax. In exchange, they have to comply with a number of conditions like distributing most of their income to investors every year and withholding tax on those distributions.
Open-ended property funds – these funds can issue new shares or units at any time. This means that the process of raising new capital for investment is much easier than it is for listed companies and REITs. However, like REITs, they are subject to special rules of their own.
Closed-ended property funds – these funds typically require investors to commit to a minimum holding period and offer only limited opportunities to sell their shares or units. This gives the fund long term certainty about the capital available to it and this model is often used by private equity real estate (PERE).
Limited companies are typically managed “internally”, i.e. by employees of the company or group of companies that owns the property investments. Many REITs are also internally managed.
Open-ended and closed-ended funds (and also some REITs) are typically “externally” managed, i.e. by a specialist property fund manager with whom they have a contract for fund management services.
As I said in my last post - quite diifficult to look for data in one place.
FD
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 10:17 am
by CryptoPlankton
MDW1954 wrote:Dod101 wrote:Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
I really don't know what I can do here. I find a way to data-scrape useful-looking data of interest to HYPers, and post it.
Instantly up pop a host of people carping that that I've not posted the right data, or that I've got some kind of agenda, through exhibiting biased selection.
In vain, I trawl the forum for their own data-scraping exercises, but draw a strange blank...
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.
MDW1954
That's a shame, but completely understandable. FWIW, I for one find such contributions far more interesting and informative than the abundance of bumptious opinions and criticisms that some posters scatter across these boards. Sadly, I am sure you aren't alone in feeling deterred in this way, and I feel the appeal of the site is slowly becoming diminished as a result.
P.S. To me, constructive responses like that just made by funduffer are a great example of how to build a more cooperative and enjoyable community. Maybe there's hope yet...
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 11:40 am
by Dod101
CryptoPlankton wrote:MDW1954 wrote:Dod101 wrote:Thanks. You are much more attentive about these matters than I am, apparently. That caveat does though remove quite a lot of the usefulness of the spreadshheet as it misses swathes of REITs (or at least quite a number of the important ones) The result for me at least is to doubt the usefulness of using it as a guide to REITs in general.
Dod
I really don't know what I can do here. I find a way to data-scrape useful-looking data of interest to HYPers, and post it.
Instantly up pop a host of people carping that that I've not posted the right data, or that I've got some kind of agenda, through exhibiting biased selection.
In vain, I trawl the forum for their own data-scraping exercises, but draw a strange blank...
Forget it. That will be be the last of my REIT spreadsheets posted here.
MDW1954
That's a shame, but completely understandable. FWIW, I for one find such contributions far more interesting and informative than the abundance of bumptious opinions and criticisms that some posters scatter across these boards. Sadly, I am sure you aren't alone in feeling deterred in this way, and I feel the appeal of the site is slowly becoming diminished as a result.
P.S. To me, constructive responses like that just made by funduffer are a great example of how to build a more cooperative and enjoyable community. Maybe there's hope yet...
My comment, if it is relevant to your remarks, was addressed to monabri, not to MDW anyway. However if we are to look at REITs, we need to look at all of them, not just those which happen to be members of the AIC. As it happens the two REITs that I hold are not on MDW's list of scrapings anyway, Segro and Primary Health Properties. That is why commented as i did.
Dod
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 1:13 pm
by MDW1954
Dod101 wrote:However if we are to look at REITs, we need to look at all of them, not just those which happen to be members of the AIC. As it happens the two REITs that I hold are not on MDW's list of scrapings anyway, Segro and Primary Health Properties. That is why commented as i did.
Dod
So, Dod:
Where would you go for (say) discount and yield information?
Let's take the two you mention, Segro and PHP, temporarily overlooking Segro's minusule yield. Where DO you go?
MDW1954
Re: My REIT spreadsheet at 01-06-2022
Posted: June 6th, 2022, 2:48 pm
by Dod101
MDW1954 wrote:Dod101 wrote:However if we are to look at REITs, we need to look at all of them, not just those which happen to be members of the AIC. As it happens the two REITs that I hold are not on MDW's list of scrapings anyway, Segro and Primary Health Properties. That is why commented as i did.
Dod
So, Dod:
Where would you go for (say) discount and yield information?
Let's take the two you mention, Segro and PHP, temporarily overlooking Segro's minusule yield. Where DO you go?
MDW1954
I go to the Companies' websites and my own records. Where do you go for those company's records? Clearly the AIC site is of no use, and the fact is that Segro has done me proud both in terms of income, but more especially total return. Not everything has to be seen through the eyes of a HYPer and anyway this is the general REITs and Property Companies' Board.
Dod