House hunting 3

[brightncheerful]

Agent-accompanied viewing is something that our agents have suggested is best when we put our home on the market so it was interesting being on the receiving end when we were viewing some properties this week. We viewed 5 properties, three different agents. I found that the number of questions the agents couldn't answer without asking their sellers was frustrating. Because the agent had to contact the seller and convey each answer, there is no flowing dialogue on matters arising.

Mrs Bnc and I have discussed at length whether we should be present at accompanied-viewing or conduct viewing ourselves. We are not averse to agent-accompanied but I intend to be present, in the background, keep out of the way generally, I work from home and no way I'd risk strangers wandering/gazing around the room I use as my office, at commercially-sensitive information. It's going to be challenging enough that our 4 bed, 3 rec house isn't used as might a family. I don't think it's realistic to expect an agent to answer every question on the spot asked by a prospective buyer, Much better I think for a viewer to have a dialogue. Also, seller to viewer introduces personality. Every property I've bought and sold over the years has involved a rapport with the seller/buyer. The idea that privacy is protected by keeping the seller anonymous at least to begin with is laudable, but I think the process loses out. As for prospective buyers feeling they cannot speak their mind if the seller is present, all that's needed is to reassure them when they arrive not to be in any way concerned.

What do others think? Would you prefer agent accompanied viewing? The seller not present? Would it bother you that answers to your questions might not be given on the spot?

[swill453]

When we were viewing our current house the seller was doing it personally. However he came across as a bit of an ar*e, and made the experience uncomfortable. For the second viewing we specifically asked the agent that the owner not be present (having no qualms about hurting the feelings of the owner).

Scott.

[Howard]

You are employing professionals to sell your house. Presumably you chose them wisely?

Why not take their professional advice? Would you expect your clients to completely ignore your advice?

It's a few years since I purchased a house, but the presence of a keen owner, desperate to answer my every question, would put me off! And, from experience, it is too easy for a naive seller to slightly misunderstand a question and give the wrong answer. The agent is trained not to do this.

Analysing my own performance as a house seller, whatever my own view of my success in negotiating business transactions, every time we moved, I stayed out of the selling process, the sale was negotiated and confirmed in my absence (working hard at the office!).

My advice is: listen to your agent.

regards

Howard

[UncleEbenezer]

Agents, like other salesmen, are much better at lying selling than the average vendor. Ask the agent about a problem, they can gloss over it and make it seem unimportant without telling a direct lie. An untrained vendor might get into all kinds of trouble, and their attempts to deflect you may be more likely to backfire and just make you more suspicious. And they might let slip something relevant to their own negotiating position.

Then of course they also avoid potential "offend the vendor" situations where they've done something really stupid with the house: "Of course first thing I'd have to do is replace that swanky but ridiculously impractical freestanding bath". Or "Why the **** have they put in windows that only open at the bottom so that in winter you have nothing between no ventilation and a cold wind"? (which has been a distressingly common theme in my house-hunting).

I think the best is to be shown round by an agent, but for the vendor to be around to chat a little. I think those vendors generally come across as honest and open about their houses. I guess agents vet them, and advise being away if a vendor seems less than honest-and-open.

[DrFfybes]

We're looking at places 3+ hours away, so are tight on viewing times and try and fit 4 or so in a day, so go with who is available.

I find it really depends on the vendor and the agent. Many people also feel uncomfortable about showing people around, others are fine with it.

By meeting the vendor at the first viewing you can find more out about their circumstances, the area, any queries about the property, but I feel uncomfortable asking blunt questions like "how many viewings, any offers", etc. This can be particularly troublesome for probate sales of a beloved family home when you point out the neglect and work required. Also people have different standards, if they're happy living with something then they won't accept criticism.

I've also had some 'agents' who are just hired in to do viewings, some open the door and say "off you go" having read the sales brochure on the doorstep, others have more knowledge about interest and offers.

The advantage of an agent viewing is that when you get there and open the door and instantly decide "no thanks" then at least you don't waste their time.

Paul

[DrFfybes]

Then of course they also avoid potential "offend the vendor" situations where they've done something really stupid with the house: "Of course first thing I'd have to do is replace that swanky but ridiculously impractical freestanding bath". Or "Why the **** have they put in windows that only open at the bottom so that in winter you have nothing between no ventilation and a cold wind"? (which has been a distressingly common theme in my house-hunting)..

Firstly - I quite agree about the baths. A very impractical ornament.
The windows is to do with regs about means of escape. There seems to be some changes since but as I had a loft conversion it had to be done. Open plan is a PITA for it as my 'through room' was classed as 2 due to the opening in the middle only being 8 feet wide into the room with the outside door and I'd blocked the door into the hall when I opened the 2 rooms up. Had the windows gone in first then it would have been fine as there was an escape route into the hall.

https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/part-b-fire-safety/

Paul

[didds]

My single expereince of selling a p[roperty was almost 30 years ago, but wrt the agent beign poresent they may have well just given the keys to the prospective buyer(PB) becasue on the occassions I happened to be in the house the agent diod the sdquare root of FA - just stood in the kitchen while the PBs wandered around.

I ended up doing the "selling" in effect cos I would jump in and explain "things" and highlight the benefits/features etc... (all of which were already provided to the agency).

not very reprentative Id hope, particularly three decades down the line...

didds

[didds]

[quote="UncleEbenezer"Ask the agent about a problem, they can gloss over it and make it seem unimportant without telling a direct lie. An untrained vendor might get into all kinds of trouble, and their attempts to deflect you may be more likely to backfire and just make you more suspicious. .[/quote]

well that's just down to be hoonest/ If people arent honest then they deserve to get shafted themselves in other areas of life, because clesarly their standards are low.
Lets face it - if a vendoe outright lied about a structural problem it will come out in the survey.

If they lie about the neighbourhood that will become very ap[parent very quickly if (caveats here - like living 4 hours away!) the buyer returns at odd times of the day and night and week to check out the realities...

didds

[brightncheerful]

We're looking at places 3+ hours away, so are tight on viewing times and try and fit 4 or so in a day, so go with who is available.
I find it really depends on the vendor and the agent.

By meeting the vendor at the first viewing you can find more out about their circumstances, the area, any queries about the property, but I feel uncomfortable asking blunt questions like "how many viewings, any offers", etc.

Paul

We're also looking at places long-distance, where would take me about 4 hours to drive to, my professional driver does it in 2.5 hours. We are cash-buyers, subject to selling our current property; any offer we make would be subject to survey and contract. Agents are instructed but it won't be until next week that our property will be put on the market. I am told that's illogical: best we find a buyer for ours first (even if the buyer were to withdraw, apparently a buyer lined up is the done thing). We viewed a property that had only just come onto the market and made an offer at above the asking price (to cover their agent's commission and legal costs) in exchange for the seller taking the property off the market whilst we find a buyer for ours but the seller said not interested, the agent had forewarned us. I've withdrawn the offer to prevent the seller using it to extract more out of someone else. I suspect the property won't sell that quickly let alone at the asking price. if it's still available whether we'll have another go once we've a buyer for ours we haven't decided: if so then we'd offer less than the asking price.

The only seller we met was charming, answered my questions honestly. With one property, the photos on the agent's particulars misrepresent, wasted our time. Before we view and afterwards if considering making an offer, I get the title deeds and search online for anything about the seller. It doesn't matter to me why someone is selling, it's the property we'd be buying, not their personal circumstances. Whether the respective agents reasons for the selling were authentic I suspect not, volunteered to sound plausible. Only one reason made sense to us and that was where we met the seller.

[Steveam]

I will be putting my place on the market soon so these threads are very relevant. When I last sold I phoned my contents insurer and asked about giving the keys to the agents for unaccompanied viewings and they said that would invalidate the insurance (I had a few high value items). I decided that for all viewings I’d be present but keep out of the way.

It is awkward and you do want the agent to do their stuff (assuming they’re good at it) but the insurance issue was a killer for me.

Best wishes,

Steve

[sg31]

I have bought and sold a number of houses I've renovated, that's what I did for a living. In most cases the agents send relatively experienced staff to see the seller when they have the initial meeting. Unfortunately they send young inexperienced staff to conduct viewings.

I generally made sure I was around for viewings but only interacted with the purchasers when they arrived. It's easy to greet them and tell them you are happy to answer all their questions to the best of your ability. As the agent normally hasn't a clue about the house at some stage you will get the opportunity to have a discussion with the prospective purchaser.

Most people base their buying decision on a 10-15 minute viewing. When they leave most have already decided if they want it. The decision is often aspirational rather than purely logical.

[JohnB]

A key thing with a property transaction is knowing whether the other party is going to muck you around. Meeting them in the flesh gives a good indication of this. You don't need to like them or their tastes, you do need to know they will do paperwork correctly.

Estate agents have all the skills to make you like them, but unless you want to marry one, that isn't useful.

[bungeejumper]

Thanks for the memory. When we were house-hunting, many years ago, an agent fixed us up for an afternoon viewing with the vendor, and then disappeared hurriedly from view. We wondered why?

We went to the house, which looked quite nice in the photos. Shock horror, it was in the middle of a dual carriageway. Screaming great juggernauts hurtling past the east and west windows every five seconds - and we later learned that it was also on the cruise missile route from Greenham Common, which meant it had nuclear payloads passing every day or so, not to mention heavy military traffic seven days a week. (For those too young to remember, defence policy was to keep the cruise missiles permanently on the move so that the Russkies would never quite know where they were.)

Anyway, we took one look at this blighted location, and we were just about to turn tail and flee when the owner opened the door. A sweet little old lady, slightly batty, who should have taken the compulsory purchase money when they first built the road, but somehow hadn't. We said hello and made small talk, and explained that the road situation wouldn't really suit us at all, so sorry, we weren't stopping, must go, toodle pip.

I got one hell of an angry phone call from the agent, accusing us of disrespecting his client who had been baking biscuits especially for our arrival, and she'd been in tears to him, and how could we be so heartless?

Sorry? I nearly lent him a hanky. The lying toad.

BJ

[UncleEbenezer]

Thanks for the memory. When we were house-hunting, many years ago, an agent fixed us up for an afternoon viewing with the vendor, and then disappeared hurriedly from view. We wondered why?

Hehe.

Well, at least some things improve. These days you'd've been warned off by what you could very easily find on rightmove or zoopla (like the
map, satellite and streetview), regardless of an agent's efforts to hide it.

The lying toad.

I find your bufophobia quite shocking.

[Arborbridge]

What an interesting thread for people's experiences, views, fears and ever so slight paranoia.

When selling our house, we would let the agent do the work and would try to be out of the house. No point hanging around like a spare part and usually there was something we needed to pop out for. A second or thrid viewing might be a good time to meet, though.

These days, I believe "open house" is a way of doing it. One of our neighbours went out for the day and the agent had relays of people coming round - about 20 in all. It seemed to work well by concentrating every into a single day and they sold it immediately.

My viewings of houses to buy have sometimes had the seller in residence, sometimes not*. Quite honestly, I've never found any difficulty either way. It's nice to meet the owner, not in the least embarrassing and can sometimes yield interesting information about the house and local things. Likewise, if I happen to see a nearby neighbour, I will often chat to them using that useful phrase of Portillo's "D'you mind my asking....?"

As for asking why someone is moving, there's no point. You would never really find out even if it is something disastrous about the house, so don't waste the effort. Red herrings never do you any favours.

*I've found a very high percentage of dead sellers this past year. The market has been so slow that it is largely probate cases which have been coming on the market.

Arb.

[airbus330]

Having bought and sold 12 houses and having briefly been an estate agent years ago, I'd plump for escorted viewings. You may lose out on the odd occasion with the agent being unable to immediately answer a question (with the answer that they will have the info within a few hours) but gain massively from the buyer being able to express a free opinion whilst in the property. Particularly conversations between couples needs to be unrestricted. As someone said above, the general yes/no is made very quickly, the follow up visit will fill in the gaps. I'd also say how important it is to get an agent who knows the area really well. I recently sold a difficult house at the worst time of the year and I'm convinced that the agent choice was critical.

[DrFfybes]

We are cash-buyers, subject to selling our current property; any offer we make would be subject to survey and contract. Agents are instructed but it won't be until next week that our property will be put on the market. I am told that's illogical: best we find a buyer for ours first (even if the buyer were to withdraw, apparently a buyer lined up is the done thing). We viewed a property that had only just come onto the market and made an offer at above the asking price (to cover their agent's commission and legal costs) in exchange for the seller taking the property off the market whilst we find a buyer for ours but the seller said not interested, the agent had forewarned us.

I wouldn't class you as a cash buyer. The general definition is "A cash buyer is someone who has the cash available to buy a property outright without needing to secure a mortgage or sell something, such as another property." We had a sale fall through when the 'cash' buyer revealed (at exchange of contracts) that they couldn't complete the following week as the cash would come from the sale of their London flat, which wasn't even on the market yet.

We are "Cash Buyers".The money is in a mix of savings accounts, some with 30 days notice, which we can submit when an offer is accepted. We got to this lucky position by remortgaging our current property and coupling it with savings and an inheritance. The advantage of being a cash buyer is not being in a chain, so less likelyhood of it falling through.

Paul

[Howard]

We're looking at places 3+ hours away, so are tight on viewing times and try and fit 4 or so in a day, so go with who is available.
I find it really depends on the vendor and the agent.

By meeting the vendor at the first viewing you can find more out about their circumstances, the area, any queries about the property, but I feel uncomfortable asking blunt questions like "how many viewings, any offers", etc.

Paul

We're also looking at places long-distance, where would take me about 4 hours to drive to, my professional driver does it in 2.5 hours. We are cash-buyers, subject to selling our current property; any offer we make would be subject to survey and contract. Agents are instructed but it won't be until next week that our property will be put on the market.

With respect, you are not a cash buyer. I was a cash buyer when I bought our two previous houses. In both cases, once we had decided on our new house, we exchanged contracts with the seller in two weeks or less and completed very soon after.

For sellers who are business-like, people who pretend they are cash buyers are a pain. They pretend that they can go ahead, make an offer and then reveal that they haven't even sold their house, or worse haven't even put it on the market! It would be difficult to trust them while one waits for their house sale to go ahead. And they usually are upset when the seller points out that they aren't in a position to make an offer. No doubt if they can't sell their own house at the asking price, they'll come back with a lower offer having wasted everyone's time.

It's quite a different story if the buyer is honest and reveals that they are in the early stages of a search. Sometimes one hears of friends making an offer and the seller being prepared to wait.

regards

Howard

[brightncheerful]

[quote="Howard".

With respect, you are not a cash buyer. I was a cash buyer when I bought our two previous houses. In both cases, once we had decided on our new house, we exchanged contracts with the seller in two weeks or less and completed very soon after.

For sellers who are business-like, people who pretend they are cash buyers are a pain. They pretend that they can go ahead, make an offer and then reveal that they haven't even sold their house, or worse haven't even put it on the market! It would be difficult to trust them while one waits for their house sale to go ahead. And they usually are upset when the seller points out that they aren't in a position to make an offer. No doubt if they can't sell their own house at the asking price, they'll come back with a lower offer having wasted everyone's time.

It's quite a different story if the buyer is honest and reveals that they are in the early stages of a search. Sometimes one hears of friends making an offer and the seller being prepared to wait.

regards Howard[/quote]

--

I agree that I am not purely a cash buyer which is why I always say to agents that I am cash buyer subject to selling my existing property. When we bought our existing property I was a cash buyer in your sense of the term. Whether we would need to sell our house at the asking price to be able to buy, I am allowing in my figures a substantial margin if not.

This is my first experience in a very long time of what is likely to be a chain transaction. It seems to me that unless a seller is already suited, a seller is not really in a position to sell any more that we are not really in a position to buy. The reason I haven't wanted to put our home on the market before now was partly Brexit and General Election uncertainty, but mainly that not having found something to buy I wouldn't want to be under pressure to find something only to let down a purchaser for ours if we can't. Previously, I've avoided that situation by exchanging contracts on ours subject to 3 months completion. That didn't relieve the pressure on having to find somewhere suitable but at least it provided both me and the buyer certainty. Our agents however suggest that approach wouldn't work in our area - whether that's so or just concern at having wait months for their commission I don't know. I'd have thought it would suit buyers that are currently renting.

[richlist]

I once sold a flat to someone who said they were a cash buyer. When completion was taking a rather long time and we asked why .....it was because my cash buyers hadn't received their mortgage offer.

They were raising a mortgage extension against their existing London house in order to pay cash for my flat.

I won't get caught like that again hopefully.