Smart Meters - E.on says I have to have one

[Fluke]

FWIW, 1st gen meters (insofar as that means anything) are not in themselves the problem. The trouble we had in Blighty was not the technology itself, but the bizarre rules affecting its deployment here. More informed comment at http://itreallyisupsidedown.blogspot.co ... -mkay.html

It is indeed informative, thanks for the link. It was written a while ago, any ideas how you get to the next instalment? This bit was particularly interesting:

Incompatibilities
This is a real problem in the UK. It is not, however, a problem in New Zealand, even though our technology is not all that exciting. Because it's not a technological problem at all - it's a structural or organisational problem.

There are two big companies that provide metering in Auckland. (Actually there are about eight, but only two major players controlling well over 90% of the market - Metrix and AMS.) These companies fit and maintain the smart meters, and collect read data from them. They pass that data to us retailers in (reasonably) well defined file types. If you want to be a retailer in New Zealand, you learn those file types and love them - and that's all you have to do. Dealing with the fine detail of extracting raw data from the meter and translating it into this standard format - that's the meter owner's problem (and we, the retailer, pay them for the service). If you switch retailer, the same meter continues recording the same data and it's collected by the same company - the only thing that changes is who they send it to for billing.

From what I gather, in the UK, power companies are supposed to read their own meters. That's... well, let's just say that it looks very much like a racket got up by the big, established retailers to raise barriers to entry for competition. It needs to be fixed with a clawhammer.

[Slarti]

Eon said that I had agreed to a smart meter.

I hadn't so I told them to sod off!

I still haven't got one.

[Paupertas]

Onzo - the company that boasted that it will tag your appliances, build a profile on you and sell it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7Hct6atQOo

Stay free

[gryffron]

The only good reason for the govt to insisting on smart meters is variable tariffs. They serve no other useful purpose. As we move into an era of unreliable renewable generation and battery electric cars, variable tariffs will be the only way to sensibly balance supply and demand. Sure, they haven't mentioned it yet, but it will come. Those without smart meters will simply be charged a fixed high rate instead. Better get one while they are still free.

Gryff

[Nimrod103]

AIUI smart meters send usage info back to the supplier via the mobile phone network, and presumably when they become the tool of Govt to control our usage, those orders will arrive via the phone network. But in my area of southeast England, on the edge of a big town only 40 miles from London, the mobile signal at my house is down about a third of the time. With that coverage I just don't see how smart meters can operate as required.

[Paupertas]

Interesting article from The Guardian:

The government just admitted it will use smart home devices for spying...

...Many consumers are wholly unaware that the smart devices making their home more custom and responsive are making data that can be hacked or collected

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfr ... government

[DrFfybes]

Since renewing my tariff with E.on I've been receiving letters telling me that I "agreed" to have a smart meter put in and can I please tell them when would be convenient. I agreed to no such thing but no doubt legally I did if it was somewhere in the small print on an inaccessible Ts&Cs page somewhere on their website.

Thanks.

I thought I'd posted about this somewhere, but very visible in the T&Cs from most major suppliers these days is the requirement for a Smart Meter.

eg Eon Fixed tariffs it is line 4....
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home ... itions#a10
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home ... itions#b10

Some even go so far as to say you will go on their standard tariff if you refuse the Smart Meter.

Paul

[Fluke]

I thought I'd posted about this somewhere, but very visible in the T&Cs from most major suppliers these days is the requirement for a Smart Meter.

eg Eon Fixed tariffs it is line 4....
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home ... itions#a10
https://www.eonenergy.com/for-your-home ... itions#b10

Some even go so far as to say you will go on their standard tariff if you refuse the Smart Meter.

Paul

Thanks Paul, following your first link I clicked on the 'Fixed Online' button to reveal the T&C's (yes alright so they were visible). Anyway the only reference I can see in the blurb about smart meters is this:

1.4.2 Smart meters
We may contact you at any time to offer you a smart meter. Smart meters aren’t currently available for some properties.

What am I missing?

[NeilW]

There's a good reason why walls have cavities and to fill them up is asking for trouble.

Actually there isn't. Not any more with modern materials.

However if you do fill them up you have to ensure you replace the ventilation properly in your house and deal with the shift in thermal bridges. For example if you put foam into the cavity, it's very likely that your double glazed windows will start to steam up - because they are now the weakest link in the thermal layer, not your walls.

Similarly it will highlight any geometric thermal bridges you have - with a nice patch of damp and potentially mould.

[todthedog]

I live in wet and windy West Wales and have been strongly advised against CWI as it is not suitable despite manufacturers claims to the contrary.

[Arborbridge]

There's a good reason why walls have cavities and to fill them up is asking for trouble.

Actually there isn't. Not any more with modern materials.

I don't have your touching faith in modern materials, nor in the practical use of them. Bridging that gap is an unnecessary risk to take. Water will eventually find its way across, because that is what water does - then one has a rather expensive nuisance on one's hands. The costs of remedy hardly bare thinking about, and I'd rather spend a little extra energy.

Arb

[Arborbridge]

I live in wet and windy West Wales and have been strongly advised against CWI as it is not suitable despite manufacturers claims to the contrary.

So I've heard - and it's only a matter of degree. In the slightly less wet and windy parts, the same effect is bound to exist, though not so apparent. But it will still be a risk.

Arb.

[richlist]

CWI is part of building regs.....all new houses have it.

Don't hear of any problems.

[todthedog]

My advice came from the Building Research Establishment and a local builder.

As far as new builds are concerned it is possible to insulate and maintain a cavity, not so with retrofil. Hope this helps.

[Breelander]

Bridging that gap is an unnecessary risk to take. Water will eventually find its way across, because that is what water does...

The problem is not 'filling the gap', it is where the brickies have been careless and allowed cement to drop into the cavity while building the wall. The 'bridge' is the porous cement accumulated on the wire 'ties' that hold the two walls apart/together.

With no filling, water evaporates before it reaches the inner wall. With a foam filling there is effectively a cement-filled plastic tube bridging the gap - hence no evaporation is possible. With a rock-wool filling evaporation can still take place so the risk is low.

I had my cavity walls filled with rock-wool some 10 years ago. The effect on my comfort level (and heating bills) was significant, with no sign of any damp bridging the gap.

[Arborbridge]

Bridging that gap is an unnecessary risk to take. Water will eventually find its way across, because that is what water does...

The problem is not 'filling the gap', it is where the brickies have been careless and allowed cement to drop into the cavity while building the wall. The 'bridge' is the porous cement accumulated on the wire 'ties' that hold the two walls apart/together.

With no filling, water evaporates before it reaches the inner wall. With a foam filling there is effectively a cement-filled plastic tube bridging the gap - hence no evaporation is possible. With a rock-wool filling evaporation can still take place so the risk is low.

I had my cavity walls filled with rock-wool some 10 years ago. The effect on my comfort level (and heating bills) was significant, with no sign of any damp bridging the gap.

I agree, but I didn't want to go into such detail. Interesting about your rock-wool - I was only thinking of foam.

[NeilW]

With a foam filling there is effectively a cement-filled plastic tube bridging the gap

That's not how the physics of the system works. For there to be evaporation there has to be a differential in the humidity and air movement. Since insulation works by avoiding air movement that isn't how it works. It works by wicking - which wool does far more than closed cell plastic. If what you say is true then wool would be worse than plastic.

As you found there was no damp - because you didn't have a cold spot that crossed the dew point. Interstitial damp is the killer for older walls, when people end up causing a dew point on the wrong side of their insulation layer.

I've had older walls, with terrible ties and mortar snots everywhere filled with closed cell foam for five years - with the Pennine winds blasting water onto sandstone outer brickwork. Never a problem. If any did get through it diffused on the warmer inner leafs that was specifically left vapour open.

All I got was a reduction in noise in the house and 40% off the heating bills. And no solar driven moisture diffusion as the foam stops that dead.

You do have to understand the physics of your walls, and it's quite a learning curve.

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
The discussion of cavity wall insulation etc is off topic for this DAK thread. Please stick to the question asked by the OP.

If the OP wishes to request a move of the topic to a forum where wider discussion is allowed, please do so. (chas49)

[Fluke]

Moderator Message:
The discussion of cavity wall insulation etc is off topic for this DAK thread. Please stick to the question asked by the OP.

If the OP wishes to request a move of the topic to a forum where wider discussion is allowed, please do so. (chas49)

Thank you mod, yes it did go a bit off topic, interesting though. I had my wall cavities filled once in a previous house and had absolutely no idea if it had been done properly or made any difference whatsoever. Anyway yes agreed a bit off topic.

Re the smart meter question, I think I'm going to sit on the fence for a while longer and see what happens, if the government targets have been pushed back to 2024 that takes the pressure off the suppliers to meet them and they might stop hassling me. If nothing else the problem of porting seamlessly from one supplier to another might have been sorted out by then. We'll see.

Thanks all.

[pochisoldi]

Having reviewed a recent switch to Eon, the words used were along the lines of "you agree that Eon may contact you regarding the installation of a smart meter".

In other words, the condition has nothing to do with "smart meter enforcement", it is more to do with GDPR - you have agreed to let them contact you regarding a smart meter.

The upshot of this is that you don't have to change your metering arrangements, but you do have to put up with them asking you if you want to.

PochiSoldi