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Smart Meters

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Andy46
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Smart Meters

#279906

Postby Andy46 » January 25th, 2020, 3:07 pm

Hi,

I'm considering letting my energy company install a smart meter in my property. Has anyone had this done? Do they remove your old meters? Anyone experienced any problems?

Thanks

PhaseThree

Re: Smart Meters

#279911

Postby PhaseThree » January 25th, 2020, 3:34 pm

I have refused - frequently. My concerns are as follows.
- What's in it for me - I can see advantages for my supplier but currently few/none for me.I already have a usage display in the house.
- Compatability - if I change suppliers does my smart meter still work ? (You need a SMETS2 meter installed to guarantee this).
- Data security - Who can see the transmitted data and under what circumstances. I don't want any arbitary person to be able to tell I'm on holiday by looking at my day to day usage.

Why have you decided it could be a good idea ?

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Re: Smart Meters

#279924

Postby JohnB » January 25th, 2020, 4:57 pm

I've rejected their advances. We have a "white meter" with a 9 hour off-peak tarrif, and I don't trust them not to convert that to economy 7 if they put a new meter in

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Re: Smart Meters

#279939

Postby PinkDalek » January 25th, 2020, 5:23 pm

Andy46 wrote:Hi,

I'm considering letting my energy company install a smart meter in my property. ...


Have you read this 48 post topic also on DAK?

Smart Meters - E.on says I have to have one
viewtopic.php?f=9&t=21065

It may contain something of interest.

gryffron
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Re: Smart Meters

#279974

Postby gryffron » January 25th, 2020, 9:17 pm

Just to answer the specific question. Mine were replaced a couple of weeks ago. Took about an hour.

He did manage to break the 100A fuse holder and had to call out the grid company (Western Power) to fix it. But the meter man sorted all this and it was still completed within his specified hour. Yes they removed the old meters.

Are the new meters any use. Not much. But I guess more convenient since I will never have to send a reading.

Oh, and I refused until they said I could have a SMETS2 meter, portable between suppliers.

Gryff

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Re: Smart Meters

#279991

Postby Nimrod103 » January 25th, 2020, 11:21 pm

AIUI smart meters need a reliable mobile phone signal in order that they can send readings back to the energy supplier. Certainly smart meters only really make economic sense if in future they can receive orders, over the phone network, to shut down certain appliances or even total usage at times of high demand.

In my house, the mobile signal is non-existant 50% of the time, and I don't live in an isolated place. I don't see how they could work properly without major upgrades to the mobile phone network.

Andy46
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Re: Smart Meters

#280049

Postby Andy46 » January 26th, 2020, 11:44 am

PhaseThree wrote:I have refused - frequently. My concerns are as follows.
- What's in it for me - I can see advantages for my supplier but currently few/none for me.I already have a usage display in the house.
- Compatability - if I change suppliers does my smart meter still work ? (You need a SMETS2 meter installed to guarantee this).
- Data security - Who can see the transmitted data and under what circumstances. I don't want any arbitary person to be able to tell I'm on holiday by looking at my day to day usage.

Why have you decided it could be a good idea ?


Because all the cheapest tariffs require you to have a smart meter.

PhaseThree

Re: Smart Meters

#280052

Postby PhaseThree » January 26th, 2020, 12:02 pm

Andy46 wrote:
PhaseThree wrote:I have refused - frequently. My concerns are as follows.
- What's in it for me - I can see advantages for my supplier but currently few/none for me.I already have a usage display in the house.
- Compatability - if I change suppliers does my smart meter still work ? (You need a SMETS2 meter installed to guarantee this).
- Data security - Who can see the transmitted data and under what circumstances. I don't want any arbitary person to be able to tell I'm on holiday by looking at my day to day usage.

Why have you decided it could be a good idea ?


Because all the cheapest tariffs require you to have a smart meter.


I'm currently on an EDF fix which doesn't have this condition, I guess I have yet to experience still to come.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280069

Postby DrBunsenHoneydew » January 26th, 2020, 12:55 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:AIUI smart meters need a reliable mobile phone signal in order that they can send readings back to the energy supplier. Certainly smart meters only really make economic sense if in future they can receive orders, over the phone network, to shut down certain appliances or even total usage at times of high demand.

In my house, the mobile signal is non-existant 50% of the time, and I don't live in an isolated place. I don't see how they could work properly without major upgrades to the mobile phone network.

In some areas smart meters use an old-style low-frequency radio signal which transmits more reliably than the mobile frequency in difficult conditions.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280105

Postby staffordian » January 26th, 2020, 3:45 pm

Andy46 wrote:
PhaseThree wrote:I have refused - frequently. My concerns are as follows.
- What's in it for me - I can see advantages for my supplier but currently few/none for me.I already have a usage display in the house.
- Compatability - if I change suppliers does my smart meter still work ? (You need a SMETS2 meter installed to guarantee this).
- Data security - Who can see the transmitted data and under what circumstances. I don't want any arbitary person to be able to tell I'm on holiday by looking at my day to day usage.

Why have you decided it could be a good idea ?


Because all the cheapest tariffs require you to have a smart meter.

Some, I believe, merely give the impression that their tariffs are conditional on the fitment of a smart meter, with wording along the lines of "we will contact you within x weeks of the tariff start date in connection with the fitment of smart meters".

Presumably they hope most will assume they have to have them.

No doubt some are conditional, but it's worth checking the details.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280151

Postby gryffron » January 26th, 2020, 7:18 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:AIUI smart meters need a reliable mobile phone signal in order that they can send readings back to the energy supplier. Certainly smart meters only really make economic sense if in future they can receive orders, over the phone network, to shut down certain appliances or even total usage at times of high demand.

They make economic sense if they can charge you a variable peak/daytime/middle-of-night tariff. Remember, energy companies already pay this. It makes perfect sense they would pass such difference in charges on to customers. And this is the only way govt will be able to balance supply and demand from unreliable renewable sources. I know there is no such tariff yet, but there will be!

And smart meters are... well... smart. So they don't need a reliable data connection to work. They only need an occasional data connection. They can remember usage and tariff rates for months, before uploading to HQ. It could be done from a vehicle driving round the neighbourhood every few months.

Gryff

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Re: Smart Meters

#280189

Postby Clariman » January 26th, 2020, 11:34 pm

I had a smart meter installed in a holiday home last November. It took and hour or so to I install. It is SMETS2 so should support a move to other suppliers if I want to shift.

I can view daily electricity costs remotely which is very useful for a holiday let. Combining it with a Hive system to control the heating means that I feel more in control.

I hope the in house electricity usage display might prompt guests to take a little more care in usage but I'm not betting on it!

C

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Re: Smart Meters

#280231

Postby wheypat » January 27th, 2020, 9:19 am

I've just switched to Octopus to take advantage of the 5p kwh overnight so I can charge the car for a lot less. Not possible without a smart meter.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280242

Postby gryffron » January 27th, 2020, 10:01 am

Aha! So there IS a variable rate consumer supply available already. I didn't think it would take long. Expect to see more of this as the difference in supply price between Peak rate (fossil fuel) energy, daytime renewables, and overnight nuclear, become ever more dramatic.

I expect nearly everyone will be on such variable rates fairly soon. Those without a smart meter simply paying a flat, and much higher, average price. Get one while they're free!

Gryff

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Re: Smart Meters

#280248

Postby wheypat » January 27th, 2020, 10:16 am

gryffron wrote:Aha! So there IS a variable rate consumer supply available already. I didn't think it would take long. Expect to see more of this as the difference in supply price between Peak rate (fossil fuel) energy, daytime renewables, and overnight nuclear, become ever more dramatic.

I expect nearly everyone will be on such variable rates fairly soon. Those without a smart meter simply paying a flat, and much higher, average price. Get one while they're free!

Gryff


Yes, I've also finally found a use for the delayed start on the dishwasher and washing machine.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280289

Postby taylor20 » January 27th, 2020, 12:39 pm

https://octopus.energy/agile/ they are definitely innovators in this area, so a taste of things to come for smart meter owners.

They have a number of different tarrifs, so if there is one that would suit your lifestyle/situation then probably worth getting a smart meter. They have one for solar panel owners, for example.

Not having to read the meter is not a very compelling reason for getting one installed. Nor is monitoring energy usage, there are other ways to do this if that is your focus.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280304

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 27th, 2020, 1:25 pm

wheypat wrote:Yes, I've also finally found a use for the delayed start on the dishwasher and washing machine.

Had that many years ago when my flat was on an Economy 7 tariff.

Economy 7 was a blunt instrument. I don't think it was any use to me, but it was before the era of switching, so I just accepted it and made small lifestyle changes to run some things overnight. If used intelligently (by suppliers and consumers), smart meters could offer a welcome refinement to that blunt instrument.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280305

Postby swill453 » January 27th, 2020, 1:30 pm

wheypat wrote:Yes, I've also finally found a use for the delayed start on the dishwasher and washing machine.

Of course the fire brigade would advise you not to use these while asleep in the house.

Scott.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280313

Postby JohnB » January 27th, 2020, 2:08 pm

What will be big is tie-ups between electricity suppliers and electric-car charging apps. You enter into the app when you next need the car, and for how many miles, and the app negotiates with the supplier for bursts of charge at convenient times. The electric car is both an opportunity and a problem for suppliers. More sales, but not at the right times of day for existing tarrifs. Once you have a smart meter, I wonder if you will lose grandfathered rights like Economy 7 or White Meter.

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Re: Smart Meters

#280561

Postby gryffron » January 28th, 2020, 12:01 pm

JohnB wrote:What will be big is tie-ups between electricity suppliers and electric-car charging apps. You enter into the app when you next need the car, and for how many miles, and the app negotiates with the supplier for bursts of charge at convenient times. The electric car is both an opportunity and a problem for suppliers. More sales, but not at the right times of day for existing tarrifs.

Also, it's entirely possible, with the right interface, electric car batteries could even be used to push power back INTO the grid at peak times. And soak up surplus power overnight.
But get it wrong, if everyone comes home from work at 6pm and plugs their electric car in at what is already peak time, then that's a nightmare for the grid operators.

So how do you persuade customers to make the right choice? A: Smart meters and variable charging.

Gryff


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