CV-19 Shopping assistance - payment method?

[onthemove]

Hope this question is OK on this board ...

Just been on phone with mum (>70yrs old) who lives on her own, and too far away for me to get away with being able to make a round trip with groceries - it's Cumbria and Cumbria police are making it very clear outsiders aren't welcome.

I believe the current advice is that people in that age group shouldn't go out at all, not even the supermarket(?) Though knowing my mum, I bet at some point she's going to try! But assuming for now that she does follow the advice...

She had a leaflet from some group or other offering shopping assistance etc.
She's OK for now, but certainly won't have enough in to last 12 weeks!

What the leaflet didn't say, nor have I heard, hence my DAK - how is the question of money dealt with?

The main question my mum had was the practicality of how do you pay?

She has the money in the bank - having the money is not the issue - it's just the practical aspects on effecting the payment, safely for all concerned in all aspects (fraud and virus transmission). I don't think she'd have enough in actual physical cash in the house without going out to get it, but then if she went out, she'd just go to the supermarket herself.

She doesn't actually know the group, or individuals within it, who put the leaflet through the door, though we guess they're probably genuine. But is there anything - official ID that she should ask to see, or protocol, etc - in place to help people avoid falling prey to fraudsters?

Hopefully the supermarkets will sort out their online delivery capacity, so she (or more likely me, or a friend nearer to her, on her behalf while discussing with her on the phone) could arrange an online delivery by the time she needs it, though with what I'm hearing of online deliveries at the moment that doesn't look likely, and I'm not even sure whether any supermarket delivery services cover her area, even in normal times.

But in the meantime, just so my mum knows what to expect just incase, does anyone know how the money side is being handled if she does need to use the assistance?

Thanks

[Dod101]

That is a very interesting and practical point because although I am perfectly healthy I am over 70 and we are discouraged from shopping instore. I cannot get a delivery slot and I too have had one leaflet through my door from a church group offering similar shopping or at least picking it up. Our local butcher will take online or telephone orders; you pay by card and they will deliver or someone could collect it on my behalf. I have heard of small independents, grocery/general stores, who will do the same but I am stuck as we have just al local Co-op and that is it. They are obviously not geared up for it and we can hardly expect someone to go and do the shopping and pay for it then bring it up to me for me then to reimburse them. I am not handing over my bank card possibly with a PIN to pay for it. I am therefore going to make one shopping trip per week and will try to pick a quiet time which I can tell by how busy the car park is.

So sadly I have no answer for you but I gather that shops are now actively encouraging 'social distancing by limiting the number of customers in the shop at any one time.

I will be interested to see if nay other ideas are posted.

Dod

[Alaric]

What the leaflet didn't say, nor have I heard, hence my DAK - how is the question of money dealt with?

The main question my mum had was the practicality of how do you pay?

She has the money in the bank - having the money is not the issue - it's just the practical aspects on effecting the payment, safely for all concerned in all aspects (fraud and virus transmission).

One straightforward method would be that the people doing the shopping settle the bill using their own debit or credit card. They present the bill on delivery and the recipient settles with them by electronic banking. A variant on that would be where the shop gives temporary credit for an hour or two, so the recipient settles directly with the shop when the amount is known.

[Itsallaguess]

She doesn't actually know the group, or individuals within it, who put the leaflet through the door, though we guess they're probably genuine.

But is there anything - official ID that she should ask to see, or protocol, etc - in place to help people avoid falling prey to fraudsters?

Is there a telephone number on the leaflet?

You could give them a ring and explain your mum's situation, and perhaps see what they have to say regarding payment options?

If they offer some form of bank-transfer of funds, then you might be able to sort that out yourself once any receipts are received, and if there is a simple method of non-contact payment like that available, then that would at least enable you to know that any further 'fact-finding' steps that you take, to verify how genuine the people involved are, will be worthwhile if you were to then get a satisfactory answer regarding their validity...

You might also consider making one shopping-loaded trip yourself, and once there, maybe knocking on the doors of a few neighbours (ask your mum which ones smile and say hello...), and perhaps getting a sort-code and bank-account number for payments that way might also be an option, with your mum leaving a list out for them to pick up on the way for their own shopping once a week.

I would personally imagine any risks of police issues to be minimal given your circumstances, and would hope that some level of pragmatism can be applied for someone wanting to care for their isolated 70+ year-old mum..

I hope you're able to find a good solution. There are lots of kind people out there who will want to help out here, I'm sure, but you're quite right to want to verify who might be available..

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[onthemove]

That is a very interesting and practical point because although I am perfectly healthy I am over 70 and we are discouraged from shopping instore. I cannot get a delivery slot and I too have had one leaflet through my door from a church group offering similar shopping or at least picking it up. Our local butcher will take online or telephone orders; you pay by card and they will deliver or someone could collect it on my behalf. I have heard of small independents, grocery/general stores, who will do the same but I am stuck as we have just al local Co-op and that is it. They are obviously not geared up for it and we can hardly expect someone to go and do the shopping and pay for it then bring it up to me for me then to reimburse them. I am not handing over my bank card possibly with a PIN to pay for it. I am therefore going to make one shopping trip per week and will try to pick a quiet time which I can tell by how busy the car park is.

So sadly I have no answer for you but I gather that shops are now actively encouraging 'social distancing by limiting the number of customers in the shop at any one time.

I will be interested to see if nay other ideas are posted.

Dod

Thanks... I hadn't thought of the click and collect.. my mum doesn't drive, so the thought didn't cross my mind, but now you mention it, obviously that might be a feasible way the assistance could operate - you buy via click and collect, and they just do the collection for you.

Since posting, I've also just checked on Sainsbury's website... it looks like they do actually cover my mums postcode area now (I'm sure when we've looked in the past, none seemed to cover that area), though I've not yet registered to see if they have any slots - based on what I'm hearing at the minute, I presume not right now, but maybe in a week or so-ish by the time my mum is starting to run low on stocks, they may have been able to bring on more staff and more deliveries.

I also just found this which mentions the over 70s can apply for priority slots with them by phoning a freephone number https://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/gr ... ormation--

I think one of my mum's friends (also >70yrs old) might already be registered with them for home delivery, so I'll mention it to my mum, and see if they can arrange things.

Your click and collect idea did also give me another idea - my mum is a fairly regular customer with her local butcher which is only a short walk for her, and they do also sell a small selection of veg. While they don't offer any official click and collect, she's a regular customer that they know very well, I'm pretty sure if my mum phoned them, they'd be able to put an order together for her to collect at a quieter time and watch out for her at their window so she didn't need to enter the store itself. And I think she knows them well enough to trust them to take her card in store and run the payment through on contactless while she waits outside. (Might even be empty enough to go inside if she picks the right time).

Thanks

One straightforward method would be that the people doing the shopping settle the bill using their own debit or credit card.

You could give them a ring and explain your mum's situation, and perhaps see what they have to say regarding payment options?

I guess really, my mum is just thinking through options at the minute.

In terms of explaining the situation to them, I'm not sure there's anything particular special about her situation - isn't it the same situation all people self isolating are going to find themselves in, and really the question is just how is it intended to work?

One thing about first asking independently (like me asking on here), is that if she does then contact the group, then if we already know there's an official way that payment should (rather then simply 'could') be handled in these CV-assistance situations, then that would provide an extra degree of reassurance if the group then inform her of the same payment protocol - or vice versa, raise alarm bells if they try to do things differently.

You might also consider making one shopping-loaded trip yourself,

The thought did cross my mind, but notwithstanding the risk of being stopped by the police, it's a long drive from where I live, normally visits involve an overnight stay... so it would be really awkward to go all the way up there, only to stay 2 meters away at the front door chatting to my mum for a while, and dropping off a large delivery, without going inside (even just to use the loo), etc, and then driving back.

Additionally, I had enough of an issue earlier last week just trying to buy my normal one-person shop just for myself, and as a result I haven't yet plucked up the courage to go to the supermarket again even just for myself (nothing to do with fears about getting the virus myself, more to do with the current social situation re. supermarket shopping and me not really being very socially suited to handling it).

Realistically though, if there are local alternatives instead of me driving up, it probably is best for me not to do so. The Cumbrian police are right - I don't think anyone really wants anyone else driving long distances if they absolutely don't need to at the minute - the last thing anyone wants is an unidentified outbreak in one area unwittingly spread into another area by a journey that could have been handled by local resources.

I think to be honest, in all probability my mum will anyway end up going to the supermarket herself anyway, even if alternative help is available... she really is not the sort of person who likes being inside at all... she's already still going out for the occasional walk for exercise even though that isn't advised. And the supermarkets still seem to have the first hour for the elderly and vulnerable so presumably it's at least accepted that some will ignore the advice to stay indoors. I very much expect as her freezer starts to run low, and she gets fed up of being cooped up inside, she'll probably crack and just go to the supermarket herself - using that as the excuse to get out!

Anyway thanks for the responses...

My mum still has quite a bit in her freezer yet, so really just thinking through the options and practicalities at the moment and thinking ahead, she doesn't actually need to act just yet.

At the moment we were just thinking ahead, and with a lot being mentioned on TV and in the papers about all this help for people self isolating, we just wondered how the 'paying' part was expected to operate.

[JohnB]

I expect TPTB are working on the trust issue, with official websites and authentication, but you wouldn't risk much doing the first few for cash and then a £100 one off bank transfer and wait You could post you Mum notes too, again at minimal risk. Provided she's got her marbles and asks your opinion she shouldn't be at risk of scams..

[77ss]

That is a very interesting and practical point because although I am perfectly healthy I am over 70 and we are discouraged from shopping instore. I cannot get a delivery slot and I too have had one leaflet through my door from a church group offering similar shopping or at least picking it up. Our local butcher will take online or telephone orders; you pay by card and they will deliver or someone could collect it on my behalf. I have heard of small independents, grocery/general stores, who will do the same but I am stuck as we have just al local Co-op and that is it. They are obviously not geared up for it and we can hardly expect someone to go and do the shopping and pay for it then bring it up to me for me then to reimburse them. I am not handing over my bank card possibly with a PIN to pay for it. I am therefore going to make one shopping trip per week and will try to pick a quiet time which I can tell by how busy the car park is.

So sadly I have no answer for you but I gather that shops are now actively encouraging 'social distancing by limiting the number of customers in the shop at any one time.

I will be interested to see if nay other ideas are posted.

Dod

Hi Dod,

I'm in the same position as you. If you aren't already aware, you my be interested in the following (I haven't tried it out yet, but will make a foray at 10 today:

https://www.coop.co.uk/coronavirus#stores

Not too sure about the wisdom of mixing 'vulnerable customers' with NHS workers though!

[Dod101]

Thanks. Just been down to my co op and got everything I need for another week I think. The store was quiet but not very well stocked although had all I needed.

That was very helpful thank you.

Dod

[AF62]

That is a very interesting and practical point because although I am perfectly healthy I am over 70 and we are discouraged from shopping instore. I cannot get a delivery slot and I too have had one leaflet through my door from a church group offering similar shopping or at least picking it up. Our local butcher will take online or telephone orders; you pay by card and they will deliver or someone could collect it on my behalf. I have heard of small independents, grocery/general stores, who will do the same

I think those are the solutions for the time being - local stores and local groups you can trust. I have heard of unscrupulous people offering to do shopping for elderly people and then taking advantage (disappearing with the cash, overcharging, etc.) - my view on what we should do with such people would likely get me banned if I wrote it here.

Personally I think the bosses at the big supermarket chains need a strong talking to for allowing the situation to develop so badly and then not having considered processes to deal with the situation.

Why on earth hadn't they considered the possibility of people hoarding and empowered their store managers to say "no" when someone wants to buy 50 of an item, before the shelves were empty and they finally introduced purchase limits?

Why did they not consider the possibility that everyone was going to jump onto online shopping, meaning that existing customers who relied on the service were stuffed when all the slots disappeared. My 86 year old mother has been having Tesco deliveries for the last 8 years or so, as she can't get out and my 85 year old dad can't drive. Now, no delivery slots for the next month. For god's sake Tesco boast about how much it knows about its customers through its clubcard, so it damn well knows my parents fall into a group that would be relying on them.

Additionally, I had enough of an issue earlier last week just trying to buy my normal one-person shop just for myself, and as a result I haven't yet plucked up the courage to go to the supermarket again even just for myself (nothing to do with fears about getting the virus myself, more to do with the current social situation re. supermarket shopping and me not really being very socially suited to handling it).

My experience in my area over the last few days with the supermarkets has been that for the most part stock is returning to normal levels, although still with some gaps and a more restricted choice.

I haven't ventured to the nearby Tesco megastore but the smaller Waitrose had a lengthy queue because they had 'bouncers' enforcing a strict limit on numbers with a 'one in / one out' policy. Whereas at the same time of day the Lidl/Aldi stores just have a notice by the door staying that they are restricting the maximum number of customers but no apparent enforcement.

Anyway at 8am this morning I was in and out of Lidl in 15 minutes. Only around 10 other customers in store. Not everything I wanted, but enough until next week. And the bonus is they now seem to be opening new checkouts if there are more than 2 people queuing!

[JohnB]

40 min queue at Sainsbury's so I went to a small LIDL which had a doorman enforcing 10 in the shop, 1 minute queue, shelves full. Do online supermarket accounts ask for age? If they did I'd probably have lied when they asked. Its rather unfair criticising companies scrambling to define policies in an unprecedented situation, there are too many unintended consequences to model in a panic meeting

[AF62]

Do online supermarket accounts ask for age? If they did I'd probably have lied when they asked. Its rather unfair criticising companies scrambling to define policies in an unprecedented situation, there are too many unintended consequences to model in a panic meeting

And the unintended consequences of telling someone to put back the trolley full of baked beans before the shelves were stripped vs telling them now they can only have four cans? And as soon as the hoarding started, did nobody at the big supermarkets think "umm, what stock have we got coming in so we can serve all our other customers"?

And sure, asking a customer's age now is pointless as too many would not tell the truth - but I bet if you looked at my parent's online shopping order you would be pretty damn certain of their age. But putting that to one side, as soon as the increase new customers who had never done online shopping started, did nobody at the big supermarkets think "what about our existing long standing customers"?

Of course they didn't because they were deafened by the noise of the tills going 'beep' and the money pouring in.

[Alaric]

Of course they didn't because they were deafened by the noise of the tills going 'beep' and the money pouring in.

The first items that had empty shelves were loo rolls and pasta. A limited range of pasta has now reappeared in a local supermarket, but there's a continued absence of loo rolls and now eggs. The usually well stocked wine shelves were looking a bit depleted as well.

[XFool]

40 min queue at Sainsbury's

Oh dear. I will be going tomorrow for Pensioner's Happy Hour.

Do online supermarket accounts ask for age?

Nope.

Might be the case with loyalty cards - I don't know, I don't have one.

Somebody mentioned that Sainsbury's number to 'register'(?) if over seventy...

[DrFfybes]

40 min queue at Sainsbury's

Oh dear. I will be going tomorrow for Pensioner's Happy Hour.

Do online supermarket accounts ask for age?

Nope.

Might be the case with loyalty cards - I don't know, I don't have one.

Somebody mentioned that Sainsbury's number to 'register'(?) if over seventy...

Obviously shops can age check, but usually only for alcohol

One thing I have heard is all those eligible turn up for the 'wrinklies' 8am slot, and by 9pm there is virtually no queue. This was true here last week, and at the S-I-L's local in Wales, and I suspect i'll find out again on Friday morning.

Back to the OP - it is difficult as there are a few scammers making the most of this. You could hand a card over and they can do contactless to limit the risk, or ask for driving licence style ID from the person shopping for you, or if you have cash handy that is best.

Paul

[gnawsome]

One straightforward method would be that the people doing the shopping settle the bill using their own debit or credit card. They present the bill on delivery and the recipient settles with them by electronic banking. A variant on that would be where the shop gives temporary credit for an hour or two, so the recipient settles directly with the shop when the amount is known.

That seems sensible unless Santander is involved and the customer does not have a mobile number without which one cannot establish a payee. It would work with Nationwide. But does not demand a mobil number.Based on my own experiences...