BBC R4 FM

[XFool]

Is it just me, or my elderly equipment (no, not that!)?

I currently listen to BBC R4 FM from two transmitters (another story...), Wrotham or Crystal Palace. Recently I have noticed an annoying, continuous, underlying, background 'tone' or noise, regardless of what programme is being transmitted. I have not noticed this on other channels. I don't know how to establish if this originates on my side or the signal/distribution/studio* side.

Is anyone having a similar experience?


* Before anyone says: "This cannot possibly be from the BBC" - Years ago, BBC 2 TV, Newsnight studio went for MONTHS with an annoying sound of a fan(?) broadcast alongside their then late night arts programme (with Mark Lawson) from a corner of the same studio.

[GrahamPlatt]

They (the BBC, I think it was on the World Service I heard it) recently asked for listener feedback as to whether anyone was getting “mechanical” noises with their reception.

[malkymoo]

I have not noticed any problem. FM (Gloucestershire, Churchdown I guess) and DAB.

Have you tried checking here:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/reception/issues- ... /undefined

[XFool]

...Unspecified fault shown on Crystal Palace transmitter. Will have to investigate further.

One theory I had: Could it be related to coronavirus?

Programmes are being made and sourced - and likely controlled - by novel means, perhaps the technology is the problem?

[XFool]

Stopped.

Who knows?

[XFool]

Back again...

[XFool]

It seems to vary in intensity over time. On headphones, curiously, it is if anything less noticeable than loudseaker. I have also listened on headphones to R4 on a small portable battery DAB/FM radio. It was not present on DAB, it was on FM - though difficult to hear due to stereo hiss (no mono/stereo switch on radio). I listened via headphones to BBC Radio 4 on DTV, I could not hear noise.

So it is definitely just on VHF FM. The question remains: Is it a local artefact, or come with the BBC signal feed?

It has gone again now!

('Any Questions?' - noise. 'Any Answers?' - no noise.)

[88V8]

It's not your neighbour's television, is it?

V8

[XFool]

...I have no idea. I feel not, but don't really know.

There it was again this morning, during the Archers. I checked again with headphones and the DAB/FM portable, this time with a stronger FM signal. It was still there on FM, not there on DAB. Once again, on headphones surprisingly, less audible than on speakers. But still just audible on R4 FM.

It sounds like a vague, continuous, steady, background whirr. Or even a bit like gas flowing through a pipe. I can hear it right now at 17:45 R4, VHF FM. It really is a very low level noise and I suspect, on most small speaker radios, it would be inaudible to most listeners. I have yet to find any reference to it online.

I must take the DAB/FM portable + headphones some way from where I live and try it there.

[Arborbridge]

...I have no idea. I feel not, but don't really know.

There it was again this morning, during the Archers. I checked again with headphones and the DAB/FM portable, this time with a stronger FM signal. It was still there on FM, not there on DAB. Once again, on headphones surprisingly, less audible than on speakers. But still just audible on R4 FM.

It sounds like a vague, continuous, steady, background whirr. Or even a bit like gas flowing through a pipe. I can hear it right now at 17:45 R4, VHF FM. It really is a very low level noise and I suspect, on most small speaker radios, it would be inaudible to most listeners. I have yet to find any reference to it online.

I must take the DAB/FM portable + headphones some way from where I live and try it there.

I haven't noticed anything down in Sussex.

[Stompa]

Perhaps there's something here:

https://www.radioandtvhelp.co.uk

that might help?

[csearle]

Tinnitus?

[XFool]

Perhaps there's something here:

https://www.radioandtvhelp.co.uk

that might help?

Thanks. My mind has been turning in such directions - also contacting the Beeb.

Meanwhile.

Both Crystal Palace & Wrotham are currently a no go on my old 1980s NAD Synthesised tuner. Both gone to dreadful 'tearing' impulsive interference. On FM that sounds like adjacent channel interference. Tuning off channel sounds dreadful. But VHF today sounds more like SW did decades ago. Perhaps receiver is just not selective enough for today's environment?

So! I am now listening to BBC R4 FM on my Grundig Party Boy 'Tranny'.

That takes me back to circa ~1971. Perhaps next week I will be listening to Hilversum on a mains powered, octal valved radiogram? Anyone know where I can get one? I am starting to wish I hadn't disassembled my old crystal set in the 1950s.

BTW - I CAN STILL HEAR THAT FLAMING NOISE ON R4.

[didds]

Just a thought... have you had the jab yet? maybe its Bill Gates trying to connect with his transponders via the BBC ?

[Grumpsimus]

XFool,

You haven't told us how away from the transmitter you are, this is very important for radio reception. What you are hearing sounds to me very like interference as a result of a weak signal.

First a little bit of history. When the BBC set up the VHF transmission network in the 1950s it was planned on the basis of the signal being picked up by an aerial mounted on the roof of the house, normally at a height of 30ft. The BBC engineers did a pretty good job and VHF coverge was over 99%.

Then radios became more sensitive and could work with much lower signal levels. So people became used to using small portable radios, with telescopic aerials. One consequence of this that they are also better at picking up interference, i.e. a radio signal you don't want.

I suspect that you have fairly weak signal and are picking up some interference.

I doubt that there is anything wrong with the broadcast signal. I am 40 miles from the Wrotham transmitter and Radio 4 FM sounds find to me. If there was something seriously I am sure that thousands of people would have complained by now.

[Mike4]

XFool,

You haven't told us how away from the transmitter you are, this is very important for radio reception. What you are hearing sounds to me very like interference as a result of a weak signal.

First a little bit of history. When the BBC set up the VHF transmission network in the 1950s it was planned on the basis of the signal being picked up by an aerial mounted on the roof of the house, normally at a height of 30ft. The BBC engineers did a pretty good job and VHF coverge was over 99%.

Then radios became more sensitive and could work with much lower signal levels. So people became used to using small portable radios, with telescopic aerials. One consequence of this that they are also better at picking up interference, i.e. a radio signal you don't want.

I suspect that you have fairly weak signal and are picking up some interference.

I doubt that there is anything wrong with the broadcast signal. I am 40 miles from the Wrotham transmitter and Radio 4 FM sounds find to me. If there was something seriously I am sure that thousands of people would have complained by now.

This interference suggestion is also supported by the fact XFool does not hear it on DAB, where interference has a completely different effect on the signal. i.e. turning it ON or OFF (or the bitratew up and down) rather than adding extraneous sounds from the speakers.

Or maybe this point has been made already.

[XFool]

XFool,

You haven't told us how away from the transmitter you are, this is very important for radio reception. What you are hearing sounds to me very like interference as a result of a weak signal.

North London with a rooftop aerial, apart from the DAB/FM portable and 1970s vintage Grundig. The main tuner has a signal strength meter that indicates a strong signal, though it has been known to fluctuate at times.

I doubt that there is anything wrong with the broadcast signal. I am 40 miles from the Wrotham transmitter and Radio 4 FM sounds find to me. If there was something seriously I am sure that thousands of people would have complained by now.

I noticed you posted that at: January 25th, 2021, 12:01 pm

I was not listening to R4 then, but am now at 01:26 pm. The noise has gone. It is actually rather strange now hearing R4 on FM with a completely silent background! It has disappeared before and unfortunately returned, so I have my fingers crossed.

Perhaps "thousands", or at least a few people, have complained (not me so far) or perhaps the BBC got on top of a problem. I really don't know whether it is/was interference or in signal. The NAD tuner and DAM/FM portable both have stereo decoders of course, the Grundig doesn't. The noise was heard most easily on the Grundig. I still wonder if it could have anything to do with the current situation and how the BBC is currently operating. But then, if in the signal source I would have expected to be present on DAB as well.

Again, it was a fairly low level sound and I found it did depend on what equipment I listened on. The order of ease of hearing, first to last, was: Grundig, NAD + speakers, NAD + phones, DAB/FM portable + PHONES. I assume this is not significant and is just an acoustic effect with a low level sound.

I will just have to see what happens next.

Changed from World at One to following programme. Still silent!

[Grumpsimus]

XFool

I am glad that the problem has gone away, at least for now.

You do know that the BBC do not run the transmitters in the UK, it is a firm called Arquiva, the BBC just provides the signal that is transmitted. It is fairly unlikely that the signal is faulty, as it is monitored on a fairly continuous basis, in addittion to the very large number of listeners in London and the South East, who don't appear to be complaining. Listeners are not usually slow to complain.

I still feel it is likely to be a local signal strength/interference problem. Incidentally, there is nothing particularly significant about the timing of my email, I tend to listen to most radio on the web now. However, I was listening to Radio 4 on FM last night and there was no problem. In fact I am probably a similiar distance from the transmitter as yourself as i live just outside the north-east boundary of London.

A thought that has just occurred to me, it couldn't be interference from a local pirate radio transmitter?

[bungeejumper]

A thought that has just occurred to me, it couldn't be interference from a local pirate radio transmitter?

Always worth considering. Neon street lighting, ditto. Taxi cabs always used to be a reliable source of noise, although maybe I'm not up to date with their current state of communications. And central Bath used to rejoice in the benefits of a basement club and recording studio that blotted out all radio reception for 50 yards in any direction whenever the amps were on. (The club's still there, the interference has stopped.)

BJ

[XFool]

Still here. Still there. It doesn't sound like any kind of VHF FM interference I am familiar with or have heard of.

Out of frustration I just took my small portable DAB/FM for a walkabout, while noise on R4 FM, 93.50 MHz - Wrotham TX.

Didn't go far, around a quarter mile or so from home, tried radio more than once. Very difficult with any traffic around. But noise definitely there (despite being hard to hear on small speaker).

So... At least I know it isn't via the mains. During the day/evening sometimes it's there, sometimes it isn't. When there is on both Wrotham 93.5 MHz and Xtal Palace 93.2 MHz. Could it be anything to do with the proximity of these two channels?

Apart from taking portable to another part of London, or out of London entirely... Both forbidden under current rules.

Stumped.