The Lemon Fool

DAK?

I have a tenancy agreement until the end of March for a flat I rent.

I have however moved out and now live elsewhere.

The landlord has requested that I keep the hot water on even though I no longer live there, I suspect with the intension of protecting against damage from frozen pipes.

Am I obliged to do this? Can I say no? I don't particularly want to pay that energy bill if I don't have to.

Thanks
C.

WrongLicence388 wrote:Am I obliged to do this? Can I say no? I don't particularly want to pay that energy bill if I don't have to.

What's your tenancy agreement say about damage caused by the tenant, if anything?

Do you particularly want to pay for that?

Have you spoken to your landlord? Were it me I would look to replace you as a tenant and agree to take meter readings and assume the energy use once you have moved out anyway as a form of goodwill. Until such time as I could replace you as a tenant you would still be liable to the terms of the tenancy agreement though.

dealtn wrote:
What's your tenancy agreement say about damage caused by the tenant, if anything?

Do you particularly want to pay for that?

No sir, I don't want to pay that either . I see what your saying, the decision on the potential damage is essentially my risk. Fair enough.

dealtn wrote:Have you spoken to your landlord? Were it me I would look to replace you as a tenant and agree to take meter readings and assume the energy use once you have moved out anyway as a form of goodwill. Until such time as I could replace you as a tenant you would still be liable to the terms of the tenancy agreement though.

The landlord has had 10 viewings. No one is willing to take over the tenancy by the date he wants, 05/03, and as such essentially just called to say that he expects me to be held to my original tenancy end date, the end of March.

Thanks for your words, essentially any potential the damage is at my risk, so its probably worth paying the bill.

C.

WrongLicence388 wrote:The landlord has requested that I keep the hot water on even though I no longer live there, I suspect with the intension of protecting against damage from frozen pipes.

Am I obliged to do this? Can I say no? I don't particularly want to pay that energy bill if I don't have to.

Whether gas or electric, there's usually a way to turn the hot water thermostat down.

If it's going to help avoid frozen pipes, I'd imagine it would do the job just as well at, say 30 degrees as it would at 60 degrees.

Scott.

Thanks swill453. That's a good suggestion.

C.

WrongLicence388 wrote:DAK?

I have a tenancy agreement until the end of March for a flat I rent.

I have however moved out and now live elsewhere.

The landlord has requested that I keep the hot water on even though I no longer live there, I suspect with the intension of protecting against damage from frozen pipes.

Am I obliged to do this? Can I say no? I don't particularly want to pay that energy bill if I don't have to.

Thanks
C.

I would say yes, as I think it is reasonable for you to look after the property you have rented until the end of the term, just as you would have had you continued living there. It is a moot point though, given you appear to have relinquished possession unilaterally and early.

I do however think it is pretty mean-minded of both you and the LL to be squabbling over such a trivial expense. As a LL I would just come in and turn it ON at my own expense. As a tenant vacating earlier than the end of my tenancy I would keep it on and pay the (tiny) bill. I'm not surprised there are so many LL/tenant disputes.

A tangential point is whether you might need this LL in the future to give you a reference, should you want to rent somewhere else. For the sake of a ten quid electricity bill why not try at least to keep him/her on your side?

I'm a landlord and I think what you have been asked to do is entirely reasonable. Your landlord wants you to leave the heating on so that if the weather is particularly cold then the pipes won't freeze. It s nothing more than would be expected of you if you were to go on a month holiday in the middle of winter. You'll probably find there is a clause in your tenancy agreement that covers this point.

As has already been suggested, you could turn the temp down as you only need to keep the chill off the property.

swill453 wrote:there's usually a way to turn the hot water thermostat down.

Another idea, if the system has a timer, is to have the heating come on for just an hour a day.

That is what we do when we take our usual mid-winter break, and we have never had a problem with pipes freezing. Although this is London and the same might not be sufficient in other, colder parts of the country.

It also might help if the flats next to it and below it are occupied and heated. There was one flat I lived in where we never used to turn the heating on. We just absorbed the warmth from our over-heated neighbours!

Lootman wrote:

swill453 wrote:there's usually a way to turn the hot water thermostat down.

Another idea, if the system has a timer, is to have the heating come on for just an hour a day.

That is what we do when we take our usual mid-winter break, and we have never had a problem with pipes freezing. Although this is London and the same might not be sufficient in other, colder parts of the country.

It also might help if the flats next to it and below it are occupied and heated. There was one flat I lived in where we never used to turn the heating on. We just absorbed the warmth from our over-heated neighbours!

The OP has not been asked to keep the heating on.

Mike4 wrote:

Lootman wrote:

swill453 wrote:there's usually a way to turn the hot water thermostat down.

Another idea, if the system has a timer, is to have the heating come on for just an hour a day.

That is what we do when we take our usual mid-winter break, and we have never had a problem with pipes freezing. Although this is London and the same might not be sufficient in other, colder parts of the country.

It also might help if the flats next to it and below it are occupied and heated. There was one flat I lived in where we never used to turn the heating on. We just absorbed the warmth from our over-heated neighbours!

The OP has not been asked to keep the heating on.

Same thing, unless he doesn't have conventional central heating. Ours is a combined system. Anyway the principle is the same.

Lootman wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

Lootman wrote:Another idea, if the system has a timer, is to have the heating come on for just an hour a day.

That is what we do when we take our usual mid-winter break, and we have never had a problem with pipes freezing. Although this is London and the same might not be sufficient in other, colder parts of the country.

It also might help if the flats next to it and below it are occupied and heated. There was one flat I lived in where we never used to turn the heating on. We just absorbed the warmth from our over-heated neighbours!

The OP has not been asked to keep the heating on.

Same thing, unless he doesn't have conventional central heating. Ours is a combined system. Anyway the principle is the same.

Fascinating. One lives and learns! Thanks!

Looks like I've been doing it wrong for the last 45 years....

Mike4 wrote:

Lootman wrote:

Mike4 wrote:The OP has not been asked to keep the heating on.

Same thing, unless he doesn't have conventional central heating. Ours is a combined system. Anyway the principle is the same.

Fascinating. One lives and learns! Thanks!

Looks like I've been doing it wrong for the last 45 years....

No it's a fair point as I guess some places still have those old separate electric immersion heaters for the hot water. The OP did not elaborate on that.

But every house I have lived in for the last 40 years has had some form of combi boiler.

Lootman wrote:

Mike4 wrote:

Lootman wrote:Same thing, unless he doesn't have conventional central heating. Ours is a combined system. Anyway the principle is the same.

Fascinating. One lives and learns! Thanks!

Looks like I've been doing it wrong for the last 45 years....

No it's a fair point as I guess some places still have those old separate electric immersion heaters for the hot water. The OP did not elaborate on that.

But every house I have lived in for the last 40 years has had some form of combi boiler.

I think this is the nub of it. The OP is asking about a flat where the HW provision is usually completely separate from the space heating. Often with a thermal store like this: https://www.gledhill.net/products/therm ... stainless/

Flats here in the UK often (but with exceptions) don't have gas installed since the Ronan Point disaster in 1968, where a gas explosion brought down 18 flats on the corner of the building.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ronan_Point


(Edit to add the bit about thermal stores.)

Leaving the hot water on won't stop pipes from freezing; you need the heating on for that.

What sort of hot water system is it?


Julian F. G. W.

I agree........is the OP sure he has understood correctly what the landlord is asking him to do ?
It would seem to be a very strange request from the landlord.

IMHO preventing damage to the property comes under the heading of "duties of a tenant". Unfortunately some tenants are incapable of understanding duties (beyond paying the rent), so it's not uncommon for landlords to have to wipe tenant's backsides for them and spell out what needs to be done.

The adage that “rules are for the obeyance of fools, and the guidance of wise men” applies.

pochisoldi wrote:IMHO preventing damage to the property comes under the heading of "duties of a tenant".

IME landlords are the main offenders.

If an agent promises a prospective tenant that a damp problem is being dealt with right now, should a prospective tenant expect it to be dealt with? Or be blamed if a black patch that was never dealt with grows a bit?

If the garage roof is crumbling alarmingly what should happen? Tenant notifies landlord/agent, nothing happens. Tenant follows up, nothing happens. Tenant consults council, enforcement officer notifies landlord/agent, someone eventually gets sent to fix it. Leaves big pile of debris in garden; tenant gets blamed.

Just two recent incidents from real life that spring to mind.

Thanks for all your replies. My question has been answered. I have my issues with the landlord over various other bits, such as providing suitable heating etc but that's another story.

Let's just say, if I were to give him a reference as a landlord it would not be a gleaming one.

Thanks again.

C.

UncleEbenezer wrote:

pochisoldi wrote:IMHO preventing damage to the property comes under the heading of "duties of a tenant".

IME landlords are the main offenders.

If an agent promises a prospective tenant that a damp problem is being dealt with right now, should a prospective tenant expect it to be dealt with? Or be blamed if a black patch that was never dealt with grows a bit?

If the garage roof is crumbling alarmingly what should happen? Tenant notifies landlord/agent, nothing happens. Tenant follows up, nothing happens. Tenant consults council, enforcement officer notifies landlord/agent, someone eventually gets sent to fix it. Leaves big pile of debris in garden; tenant gets blamed.

Just two recent incidents from real life that spring to mind.

OK, to be precise, a tenant has a duty to ensure that they cause no damage to the property by their own act or omission.
An omission could be a failure to stop the place freezing, or a failure to notify the landlord of a defect.

If a tenant fails to act reasonably, then the line is crossed.
If the landlord points out a risk, and the tenant unreasonably fails to act, then the hurdle is lowered.

Note that this (and the rest of the post) is in the context of a property which is in good order, rather than a property which is in poor state of repair, so I'm not going to get involved with damp or a failed garage roof which are the landlord's problem.