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Battery powered CCTV

Straight answers to factual questions
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stevensfo
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#393909

Postby stevensfo » March 9th, 2021, 2:42 pm

bungeejumper wrote:
88V8 wrote:The adjacent covert where a camera would be sited is private land.
It is legal to install CCTV to combat a specific crime. Not for general surveillance, but against flytipping it would be. Do however take the point about the Council being asked to proceed on the basis of evidence that was 'not invented here'.

Might not be relevant, but the police were awfully grateful when the CCTV camera on our drive got some chance footage of a couple of burglars who were heading home on their motorbike, after divvying up the spoils in a quiet spot further up the lane. They were both convicted.

So although "general surveillance" probably isn't encouraged (the GDPR thing), the authorities seem happy enough to use whatever footage they can get when a crime's been committed.

BJ


Does GDPR really cover this sort of thing? I don't think so. The impression I have, when hearing that the UK has the highest number of security cameras in the world per capita, is that surveillance in the UK is most definitely a 'big thing'.

With the number of very affordable security systems around, I reckon that general surveillance is here to stay. The more the merrier.

I simply disguise my chainsaw as a large leather briefcase. No problems so far. :lol:


Steve

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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394181

Postby AF62 » March 10th, 2021, 10:01 am

stevensfo wrote:Does GDPR really cover this sort of thing? I don't think so.


Yes it does if the camera captures anything outside your own land - https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/do ... sing-cctv/

However the number of individuals who have domestic CCTV systems such as a Ring doorbell who actually pay attention and comply with GDPR is zero - myself included.

stevensfo
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394234

Postby stevensfo » March 10th, 2021, 12:03 pm

AF62 wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Does GDPR really cover this sort of thing? I don't think so.


Yes it does if the camera captures anything outside your own land - https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/do ... sing-cctv/

However the number of individuals who have domestic CCTV systems such as a Ring doorbell who actually pay attention and comply with GDPR is zero - myself included.


Thanks! That's a very interesting website. So it seems that it's easy to stay within the law. You have to just comply with certain guidelines. I remember there was a lot of discussion about general photography years ago when some community police officers illegally stopped tourists from taking photos in the street. It's not always terribly clear.

Re. your doorbell, I would call your front door as within your territory anyway, so you're perfectly entitled to use the camera. Wiring the doorbell button to the 240v mains is useful on Halloween night, and the ones from North Korea that shoot poison darts as well sometimes appear on Ebay. ;)

Steve

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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394275

Postby pochisoldi » March 10th, 2021, 1:31 pm

stevensfo wrote:
bungeejumper wrote:
88V8 wrote:The adjacent covert where a camera would be sited is private land.
It is legal to install CCTV to combat a specific crime. Not for general surveillance, but against flytipping it would be. Do however take the point about the Council being asked to proceed on the basis of evidence that was 'not invented here'.

Might not be relevant, but the police were awfully grateful when the CCTV camera on our drive got some chance footage of a couple of burglars who were heading home on their motorbike, after divvying up the spoils in a quiet spot further up the lane. They were both convicted.

So although "general surveillance" probably isn't encouraged (the GDPR thing), the authorities seem happy enough to use whatever footage they can get when a crime's been committed.

BJ


Does GDPR really cover this sort of thing? I don't think so. The impression I have, when hearing that the UK has the highest number of security cameras in the world per capita, is that surveillance in the UK is most definitely a 'big thing'.


Compliance with the spirit of the law is a doddle.
The basics: Turn off any audio monitoring, Pull the memory card for review on a regular basis, delete anything you don't need, and if the flytipping stops, remove the camera (or its ability to record).

Write down:
Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s).
When you will review your decision to deploy.
How long you will routinely keep the images for. (If you pull the card from the camera every Sunday, and delete all unwanted images, the answer is "one week").
What criteria will you use for retaining images? (this should be consistent with the decision to deploy)
How long will you keep retained images for, and where will you keep them ("six months" and/or "until handed over to the police/council" are good start points)

From what I gather the ICO has bigger fish to fry than domestic CCTV users who aren't properly registered.
If they do take an interest, and you have done the basic compliance, they'll either tell you to register if you want to continue, or move onto more fertile land.

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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394310

Postby AF62 » March 10th, 2021, 3:22 pm

stevensfo wrote:
AF62 wrote:
stevensfo wrote:Does GDPR really cover this sort of thing? I don't think so.


Yes it does if the camera captures anything outside your own land - https://ico.org.uk/your-data-matters/do ... sing-cctv/

However the number of individuals who have domestic CCTV systems such as a Ring doorbell who actually pay attention and comply with GDPR is zero - myself included.


Thanks! That's a very interesting website. So it seems that it's easy to stay within the law. You have to just comply with certain guidelines. I remember there was a lot of discussion about general photography years ago when some community police officers illegally stopped tourists from taking photos in the street. It's not always terribly clear.

Re. your doorbell, I would call your front door as within your territory anyway, so you're perfectly entitled to use the camera.


The doorbell resolution is good enough to capture people and vehicles passing by on the road some distance away at the end of the drive so, according to the ICO it does fall within GDPR which is probably the same for most people who own them.

However the ICO is deluded if it thinks that anybody is going to do any of that nonsense they say is required

pochisoldi
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394329

Postby pochisoldi » March 10th, 2021, 4:54 pm

AF62 wrote:The doorbell resolution is good enough to capture people and vehicles passing by on the road some distance away at the end of the drive so, according to the ICO it does fall within GDPR which is probably the same for most people who own them.

However the ICO is deluded if it thinks that anybody is going to do any of that nonsense they say is required


Many people automatically do many of the things mandated by GDPR, without even realising they have a duty to do so, and for the majority of those who don't there's no victim to register a complaint anyway.

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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394342

Postby AF62 » March 10th, 2021, 5:24 pm

pochisoldi wrote:
AF62 wrote:The doorbell resolution is good enough to capture people and vehicles passing by on the road some distance away at the end of the drive so, according to the ICO it does fall within GDPR which is probably the same for most people who own them.

However the ICO is deluded if it thinks that anybody is going to do any of that nonsense they say is required


Many people automatically do many of the things mandated by GDPR, without even realising they have a duty to do so, and for the majority of those who don't there's no victim to register a complaint anyway.


Not with the type of consumer CCTV such as Ring doorbells they don't!

To comment on the points you made before -

pochisoldi wrote:Compliance with the spirit of the law is a doddle.
The basics: Turn off any audio monitoring, Pull the memory card for review on a regular basis, delete anything you don't need, and if the flytipping stops, remove the camera (or its ability to record).

Write down:
Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s).
When you will review your decision to deploy.
How long you will routinely keep the images for. (If you pull the card from the camera every Sunday, and delete all unwanted images, the answer is "one week").
What criteria will you use for retaining images? (this should be consistent with the decision to deploy)
How long will you keep retained images for, and where will you keep them ("six months" and/or "until handed over to the police/council" are good start points)


Nobody with a Ring doorbell turns off audio (or video) monitoring - that is the whole point of them. They will record audio and video automatically when anyone strays into view - does that meet GDPR? But you can also trigger 'live view' if you just fancy a look at what is going on - and that still records.

"Pull out the memory card" - they don't have one as everything is stored in Amazon's cloud - and I don't know (and don't care) where in the world that is - does that meet GDPR?

"Write down" - umm, no, really, no - does that meet GDPR?

Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s) - It is a door bell that watches my drive and spies on the neighbours movements - does that meet GDPR?

When you will review your decision to deploy - never - does that meet GDPR?

How long you will routinely keep the images for - for as long as Amazon want to keep them. By default it is 30 days but you can mark interesting clips to be kept forever and also I can download anything funny to be uploaded to YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc. - does that meet GDPR?

pochisoldi
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394356

Postby pochisoldi » March 10th, 2021, 5:54 pm

AF62 wrote:
pochisoldi wrote:
AF62 wrote:The doorbell resolution is good enough to capture people and vehicles passing by on the road some distance away at the end of the drive so, according to the ICO it does fall within GDPR which is probably the same for most people who own them.

However the ICO is deluded if it thinks that anybody is going to do any of that nonsense they say is required


Many people automatically do many of the things mandated by GDPR, without even realising they have a duty to do so, and for the majority of those who don't there's no victim to register a complaint anyway.


Not with the type of consumer CCTV such as Ring doorbells they don't!

To comment on the points you made before -

pochisoldi wrote:Compliance with the spirit of the law is a doddle.
The basics: Turn off any audio monitoring, Pull the memory card for review on a regular basis, delete anything you don't need, and if the flytipping stops, remove the camera (or its ability to record).

Write down:
Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s).
When you will review your decision to deploy.
How long you will routinely keep the images for. (If you pull the card from the camera every Sunday, and delete all unwanted images, the answer is "one week").
What criteria will you use for retaining images? (this should be consistent with the decision to deploy)
How long will you keep retained images for, and where will you keep them ("six months" and/or "until handed over to the police/council" are good start points)


Nobody with a Ring doorbell turns off audio (or video) monitoring - that is the whole point of them. They will record audio and video automatically when anyone strays into view - does that meet GDPR? But you can also trigger 'live view' if you just fancy a look at what is going on - and that still records.

"Pull out the memory card" - they don't have one as everything is stored in Amazon's cloud - and I don't know (and don't care) where in the world that is - does that meet GDPR?

"Write down" - umm, no, really, no - does that meet GDPR?

Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s) - It is a door bell that watches my drive and spies on the neighbours movements - does that meet GDPR?

When you will review your decision to deploy - never - does that meet GDPR?

How long you will routinely keep the images for - for as long as Amazon want to keep them. By default it is 30 days but you can mark interesting clips to be kept forever and also I can download anything funny to be uploaded to YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc. - does that meet GDPR?


My comments were made in the context of someone putting up a camera to catch flytippers - full stop.

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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394359

Postby AF62 » March 10th, 2021, 6:00 pm

pochisoldi wrote:
AF62 wrote:
pochisoldi wrote:
Many people automatically do many of the things mandated by GDPR, without even realising they have a duty to do so, and for the majority of those who don't there's no victim to register a complaint anyway.


Not with the type of consumer CCTV such as Ring doorbells they don't!

To comment on the points you made before -

pochisoldi wrote:Compliance with the spirit of the law is a doddle.
The basics: Turn off any audio monitoring, Pull the memory card for review on a regular basis, delete anything you don't need, and if the flytipping stops, remove the camera (or its ability to record).

Write down:
Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s).
When you will review your decision to deploy.
How long you will routinely keep the images for. (If you pull the card from the camera every Sunday, and delete all unwanted images, the answer is "one week").
What criteria will you use for retaining images? (this should be consistent with the decision to deploy)
How long will you keep retained images for, and where will you keep them ("six months" and/or "until handed over to the police/council" are good start points)


Nobody with a Ring doorbell turns off audio (or video) monitoring - that is the whole point of them. They will record audio and video automatically when anyone strays into view - does that meet GDPR? But you can also trigger 'live view' if you just fancy a look at what is going on - and that still records.

"Pull out the memory card" - they don't have one as everything is stored in Amazon's cloud - and I don't know (and don't care) where in the world that is - does that meet GDPR?

"Write down" - umm, no, really, no - does that meet GDPR?

Why you have decided to deploy the camera(s) - It is a door bell that watches my drive and spies on the neighbours movements - does that meet GDPR?

When you will review your decision to deploy - never - does that meet GDPR?

How long you will routinely keep the images for - for as long as Amazon want to keep them. By default it is 30 days but you can mark interesting clips to be kept forever and also I can download anything funny to be uploaded to YouTube, Reddit, Facebook, Twitter, etc. - does that meet GDPR?


My comments were made in the context of someone putting up a camera to catch flytippers - full stop.


Yes but the same GDPR rules apply to everyone who has a CCTV camera which captures outside of their land. Rules which nobody complies with.

88V8
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394405

Postby 88V8 » March 10th, 2021, 8:13 pm

GDPR was rather a cockup.
Or has been over-zealously applied.
Or both.
I'm afraid it rather deserves to be ignored. As Looty says, the govt governs with the consent of the people, and in this case they do not consent.

V8

stevensfo
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Re: Battery powered CCTV

#394956

Postby stevensfo » March 12th, 2021, 3:12 pm

88V8 wrote:GDPR was rather a cockup.
Or has been over-zealously applied.
Or both.
I'm afraid it rather deserves to be ignored. As Looty says, the govt governs with the consent of the people, and in this case they do not consent.

V8


Since when has a government governed with the consent of the people? ;)

Absolutely agree! I have the feeling that the GDPR nonsense is merely to stop any UK citizen doing anything other than sit in their favourite armchair, while the councils, local authorities and banks demand whatever information they like from you. This privacy business is one big con.


Steve


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