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Hiding/disguising a key safe

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kiloran
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Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405663

Postby kiloran » April 20th, 2021, 8:02 pm

Looks like mum will be needing carers in four times a day, so we need to install a key safe for them. The problem is that mum is in a mid-terrace house on a main road, a public footpath about 10m from the house, and an open front garden. There's no place to hide the safe. I thought maybe a planter with a tallish conifer or whatever to hide the safe, but there's a gas meter in the way.

Any thoughts how to minimise the risk?

We'll probably be going for this one which seems to be as tough and secure as they come.
https://www.burtonsafes.co.uk/products/ ... igital-xl/

--kiloran

Midsmartin
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405667

Postby Midsmartin » April 20th, 2021, 8:11 pm

I reckon these safes are reasonably secure unless it might succumb to a whack with something heavy.

The lockpickinglawyer however can crack a different safe of the same brand in about 90 seconds. But he is damn good at it .

https://youtu.be/XKg9qWiqMi4[url][/url]

csearle
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405669

Postby csearle » April 20th, 2021, 8:15 pm

kiloran wrote:Any thoughts how to minimise the risk?
Whatever you do, do not go for one of these or anything that looks similar. I can get into them within 25s with nothing more than a can of tuna and a pair of scissors. If I can then burglars can.

Chris
PS I have two(?!) of these outside the flat I rent. It took me about half an hour of Youtubing to find out and practise how to break into them. Many of my elderly neighbours use them. I am reluctant to let them know how vulnerable they are for fear of worrying them #moraldilemma.

GrahamPlatt
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405674

Postby GrahamPlatt » April 20th, 2021, 8:34 pm

kiloran wrote:Any thoughts how to minimise the risk?

We'll probably be going for this one which seems to be as tough and secure as they come.
https://www.burtonsafes.co.uk/products/ ... igital-xl/

--kiloran


Had same problem with my elderly father. Ordered a similar unit and was appalled to find it was a “combination” lock - and not a permutation lock [1]. Seems that your example is the same.

[1] I know you’ll understand Kiloran, but for those who may not have caught the implication, it means that if you set the code as say 1357, then entering those numbers in any sequence (e.g. 3517) will open the box.

genou
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405677

Postby genou » April 20th, 2021, 9:02 pm

If it is in such a well observed position, I'd relax about the keysafe being breached. With 4 visits a day, the number of individuals who will require to know the combination will rapidly climb to the point where I'd be more concerned about leakage via that route. We hid the keysafe, and then had to move it so that it was under a movement triggered light to allow the carers to open it in the dark!

We are in this position with MiL, and to be fair I'm happy with those I've met, but I'd imagine they are a small subset of who actually attends. Consider what do about mail ( e.g bank statements ) , bank cards/cash and valuables.

kiloran
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405679

Postby kiloran » April 20th, 2021, 9:11 pm

GrahamPlatt wrote:Had same problem with my elderly father. Ordered a similar unit and was appalled to find it was a “combination” lock - and not a permutation lock [1]. Seems that your example is the same.

[1] I know you’ll understand Kiloran, but for those who may not have caught the implication, it means that if you set the code as say 1357, then entering those numbers in any sequence (e.g. 3517) will open the box.

That's very presumptious of you :lol:
The key safe I'm considering can have a code of 4-8 digits, so perhaps not such a problem

--kiloran

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405680

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 20th, 2021, 9:24 pm

kiloran wrote:Looks like mum will be needing carers in four times a day, so we need to install a key safe for them. The problem is that mum is in a mid-terrace house on a main road, a public footpath about 10m from the house, and an open front garden. There's no place to hide the safe. I thought maybe a planter with a tallish conifer or whatever to hide the safe, but there's a gas meter in the way.

Any thoughts how to minimise the risk?

We'll probably be going for this one which seems to be as tough and secure as they come.
https://www.burtonsafes.co.uk/products/ ... igital-xl/

--kiloran

If I were asked to be devil's advocate on this I'd want to express concern at any level I look at this. Sounds very negative I know. Sorry.

I think in your position I'd want to review other options. I've had a quick look over the internet for the last hour and not really found any definitive answer that would float my boat in similar circumstances. However, I'd like to suggest you have a quick look at this product please. It's an example of an alternative method of entry. It might not be a great example but hopefully it might be a start if you chose to look for something less risky than a key box.

AiY

Mike4
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405681

Postby Mike4 » April 20th, 2021, 9:24 pm

It always strikes me that any intelligent thief would deal with a key safe by jemmying it off the wall and taking it home to open up in privacy at his leisure. Few people are able to really securely fix things to masonry.

Whatever you use to fix one, it can only ever be as strong as the clay of the brick you are fixing to and even quite a small crowbar will remove most things screwed to brickwork.

csearle
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405682

Postby csearle » April 20th, 2021, 9:29 pm

Mike4 wrote:It always strikes me that any intelligent thief would deal with a key safe by jemmying it off the wall and taking it home to open up in privacy at his leisure. Few people are able to really securely fix things to masonry.

Whatever you use to fix one, it can only ever be as strong as the clay of the brick you are fixing to and even quite a small crowbar will remove most things screwed to brickwork.
Have you no faith in red wall plugs?!?!?!?!?!*



*My world falling apart around me.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405683

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 20th, 2021, 9:30 pm

csearle wrote:
Mike4 wrote:It always strikes me that any intelligent thief would deal with a key safe by jemmying it off the wall and taking it home to open up in privacy at his leisure. Few people are able to really securely fix things to masonry.

Whatever you use to fix one, it can only ever be as strong as the clay of the brick you are fixing to and even quite a small crowbar will remove most things screwed to brickwork.
Have you no faith in red wall plugs?!?!?!?!?!

He's colour blind :roll:

AiY

kiloran
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405684

Postby kiloran » April 20th, 2021, 9:31 pm

Mike4 wrote:It always strikes me that any intelligent thief would deal with a key safe by jemmying it off the wall and taking it home to open up in privacy at his leisure. Few people are able to really securely fix things to masonry.

Whatever you use to fix one, it can only ever be as strong as the clay of the brick you are fixing to and even quite a small crowbar will remove most things screwed to brickwork.

From what I have read, and based on the police approval of the safe, I think a sledgehammer/jemmy attack would not be easy. We'll have it professionally fitted by a security firm, and the wall is concrete, not brick, so I would hope that would be less risky (but what do I know?)

--kiloran

Lootman
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405686

Postby Lootman » April 20th, 2021, 9:42 pm

kiloran wrote:
Mike4 wrote:It always strikes me that any intelligent thief would deal with a key safe by jemmying it off the wall and taking it home to open up in privacy at his leisure. Few people are able to really securely fix things to masonry.

Whatever you use to fix one, it can only ever be as strong as the clay of the brick you are fixing to and even quite a small crowbar will remove most things screwed to brickwork.

From what I have read, and based on the police approval of the safe, I think a sledgehammer/jemmy attack would not be easy. We'll have it professionally fitted by a security firm, and the wall is concrete, not brick, so I would hope that would be less risky (but what do I know?)

I did once witness my neighbour destroying his keybox when he locked himself out, using the tools he had in his vehicle. Not easy, but he managed it.

Made a lot of noise though and if I had not seen it was him, I would have called the cops.

For my house safe, it is embedded in concrete and disguised. I feel confident about that.

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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405693

Postby Lanark » April 20th, 2021, 10:08 pm

Another approach is to identify the valuables inside the house (financial documents, jewellery etc) and put those into a second safe somewhere inside the house.

AsleepInYorkshire
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405694

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » April 20th, 2021, 10:16 pm

Lanark wrote:Another approach is to identify the valuables inside the house (financial documents, jewellery etc) and put those into a second safe somewhere inside the house.

Completely agree.

Many years ago my parents were friends with a couple who owned and ran a care home. After Dad's passing they were very kind and friendly to my Mum. It was a surprise when the local papers reported that an elderly lady in their care had been abused by two of their staff. The family of the lady put some form of CCTV camera in a clock in her room on the wall and that clearly showed the abuse. The home closed about 12 months later.

Sorry I'm sounding negative again.

AiY

Mike4
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405716

Postby Mike4 » April 20th, 2021, 11:21 pm

Lanark wrote:Another approach is to identify the valuables inside the house (financial documents, jewellery etc) and put those into a second safe somewhere inside the house.


And keep some sacrificial valuables poorly hidden to give to a thief should they break in and threaten.

My dear old departed Dad used to keep £500 under the corner of his bedroom carpet for this purpose...

On reflection when he died and we sold the house, I don't think we recovered it. DOH!!

UncleEbenezer
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405735

Postby UncleEbenezer » April 21st, 2021, 12:24 am

Would a combination lock be an option? If it's a dodgy area, it might be in addition to your key safe.

Had a combi lock to the front of the building where I lived 2005-2013. I don't know how secure it would be against expert attack, but it certainly held against some actual attempts by the yobs to get in.

Itsallaguess
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405749

Postby Itsallaguess » April 21st, 2021, 5:47 am

We had a similar quandary at the start of last year's lockdown -

https://i.imgur.com/BXSSLbQ.mp4

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

DrFfybes
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Re: Hiding/disguising a key safe

#405819

Postby DrFfybes » April 21st, 2021, 12:27 pm

We have one of the "seen everywhere" Master branded ones..

It froze over winter, which was annoying, but where mum lives then even if someone breaks in they need to work out which of the half a dozen on the wall fit which of the 30 or so units.

The main thing is what are you securing against? If the property is always occupied and visited regularly, that will put most thieves off, especially as the occupants often have a panic alarm pendant. Combines with a "CCTV" sticker in the window and the biggest risk is probably someone sees the key safe and thinks "vulnerable occupant" and then knocks and offers a flu jab for £100, etc.

If you are really worried, as a neighbour if you can put it on their wall :)

Paul


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