The Lemon Fool

Yesterday evening I had the pleasure of being asked to pull over by the local constabulary.

After a brief discussion as to why it took me so long to pullover, my response being that I thought I needed to stop in a safe location and not in a bus lane which was accepted without any fuss, the policeman started to state his reasons for the stop, namely that he wanted to talk to me about my vehicle. Before he could continue any further his driver colleague suddenly said we’ve got to go there is an incident and that was that. No further explanations as to why I was stopped!

Location Tooting 6.30 pm in a 10 plus year old Vauxhall Zafira, not I would think a likely chosen getaway vehicle or a normal choice of boy racers and being driven by a 60ish couple.

Reaching my destination ten minutes later ahead of grand parenting duties today I checked the obvious -rear brake lights, indicators, number plate legal etc , all ok and also safe in the knowledge that MOT, Tax and Insurance are all valid.

Perplexed as to what other explanation there might be as the policeman clearly said he wanted to talk about my vehicle and not about any traffic misdemeanours.

Barclayboy

Maybe he was thinking of buying one and wanted your thoughts on it.

Or wanted to warn you of their tendency to self-combust?

Policeman's bingo? What colour was it?

Barclayboy wrote:
Perplexed as to what other explanation there might be as the policeman clearly said he wanted to talk about my vehicle and not about any traffic misdemeanours.

I think he wanted to make a note of the web address on the edge of the rear number plate...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

He probably had an APB out on a certain "BarclayBoy" known as a mob leader in the running of narcotics. Lucky you got away with it!

Chris
PS it is probably like lightning strikes or jury service, chances are that it'll only happen once per lifetime.

These days of self-identifying, you never know. Maybe you were really black teenage lads?

Was it good daylight at the time, or were you/should you have been properly lit?

FWIW, I had a slightly scary moment cycling home last night. I could see the 4x4 turning right (illegally - it's a no-right-turn junction) across my path: no problem, he's got time if he doesn't dawdle. I didn't see the big, dark, unlit trailer until I was virtually upon it . A moment when I wouldn't've been sorry to have had a copper behind me ...

staffordian wrote:Maybe he was thinking of buying one and wanted your thoughts on it.

This could have been closer to the truth than you think.

I was stopped in Guildford about 30 years ago (!) driving my Sierra Cosworth. After a some surprisingly brief and cursory checks by an unusually laid-back copper, I asked why he stopped me. Disarmingly candidly he said he quite fancied a Cosworth too but had never had a close look at one, so he stopped me to get a closer look at one and ask my opinion of it. After about 20 mins of gassing about cars with him, each of us went on our ways.

I was once stopped around Christmas time for driving too slowly - that is to say, on the speed limit of 30mph. The cop also noticed I had the window wound down too (it was a surprisingly warm evening), so putting those two facts together came to the conclusion I must have drunk too much.

He was wrong: I was just obeying the speed limit believing this is what one should do in a civilised society


Arb.

My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

Chris
¹Police dog handler

csearle wrote:My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

Chris
¹Police dog handler

In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Spet0789 wrote:At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

And if she said "yes, this stretch is 50 mph" what then? she wasnt exceeding the speed limit?

Spet0789 wrote:

csearle wrote:My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

Chris
¹Police dog handler

In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judge inconsiderate?
A difficult judgement call, but it's a death spiral once we start pontificating about what speed people "ought" to be doing in order to drive within safe limits. My view of what is safe for a given road is often at odds with the view of others - judging by the lunatics I see around me - but I believe I am an alert and able driver who simply does not wish to push the boundaries of safety.

So many people drive on the assumption that nothing is about to get in their way, or pull out of a side road or from the blind side of a parked van but everyone has the right to road space - including a cyclist just round that blind curve, a car that's just broken down, a tractor with a load - etc etc. We do not have the right to drive at the maximum speed in all conditions, either - speed must always be within what we feel is a safe limit for the conditions, our ability and our state of mind. Accidents do not just happen - most are caused by poor personal judgement from one party of the other and it is our duty as one of those parties to drive well within safe limits to give leeway for error on the part of ourselves and other people.

Arb.

Arborbridge wrote:

Spet0789 wrote:

csearle wrote:
My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judged inconsiderate?

From the RAC website -

Is driving too slowly illegal in the UK?

While there is no law for driving too slowly, the police can charge you for “driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users”.

This CD30 endorsement carries 3 to 9 penalty points.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/speed-limits/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

Arborbridge wrote:

Spet0789 wrote:

csearle wrote:My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

Chris
¹Police dog handler

In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judge inconsiderate?
A difficult judgement call, but it's a death spiral once we start pontificating about what speed people "ought" to be doing in order to drive within safe limits. My view of what is safe for a given road is often at odds with the view of others - judging by the lunatics I see around me - but I believe I am an alert and able driver who simply does not wish to push the boundaries of safety.

So many people drive on the assumption that nothing is about to get in their way, or pull out of a side road or from the blind side of a parked van but everyone has the right to road space - including a cyclist just round that blind curve, a car that's just broken down, a tractor with a load - etc etc. We do not have the right to drive at the maximum speed in all conditions, either - speed must always be within what we feel is a safe limit for the conditions, our ability and our state of mind. Accidents do not just happen - most are caused by poor personal judgement from one party of the other and it is our duty as one of those parties to drive well within safe limits to give leeway for error on the part of ourselves and other people.

Arb.

Of course judgement comes into it but driving too slowly for the conditions is an offence, just as driving too fast is.

There are bends on national speed limit country lanes with muck on the road, adverse camber, and sightlines obscured by high vegetation where driving over 10mph would be excessive. But from the description of this old lady as “pootling”, it would seem that there were no specific circumstances like that.

You will fail your driving test for “failing to make progress” - pootling. If your ability and state of mind don’t allow you to make appropriate progress in light of the road conditions, you’re not fit to hold a licence. If for any reason a queue of traffic is building behind you, you should notice that and pull over (as I would if I was pulling a trailer for example.)

In my view, drivers should be required to go for a 1 hour drive with an instructor at 40, 60, 70 and every 5 years thereafter, with a referral for an examined retest if needed.

Spet0789 wrote:

csearle wrote:My brother¹ told me once that he was caught up in a huge train of cars doing about 20mph on a fairly windy main road. He managed to get to the front only to find an old dear pootling along unaware or uncaring of the havoc she was causing. He pulled her over for long enough to release the long traffic tail-back.

Chris
¹Police dog handler

In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

I think a police dog handler would be in a lot of trouble with his superiors if he started handing out traffic tickets.

Scott.

Itsallaguess wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:

Spet0789 wrote:In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judged inconsiderate?

From the RAC website -

Is driving too slowly illegal in the UK?

While there is no law for driving too slowly, the police can charge you for “driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users”.

This CD30 endorsement carries 3 to 9 penalty points.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/speed-limits/

There was a long topic on TLF a year or two ago about whether it is reasonable/considerate/lawful to drive at a speed that causes a long queue of traffic to build up behind you. Opinions appeared to split between "Yes, of course, if I am driving at the limit then I cannot possibly be in the wrong" to "It is grossly bad and selfish driving and if it is not illegal then it should be". I was in the latter camp - speed up or pull over.

Lootman wrote:

Itsallaguess wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judged inconsiderate?

From the RAC website -

Is driving too slowly illegal in the UK?

While there is no law for driving too slowly, the police can charge you for “driving without due care and attention or without reasonable consideration for other road users”.

This CD30 endorsement carries 3 to 9 penalty points.

https://www.rac.co.uk/drive/advice/legal/speed-limits/

There was a long topic on TLF a year or two ago about whether it is reasonable/considerate/lawful to drive at a speed that causes a long queue of traffic to build up behind you. Opinions appeared to split between "Yes, of course, if I am driving at the limit then I cannot possibly be in the wrong" to "It is grossly bad and selfish driving and if it is not illegal then it should be". I was in the latter camp - speed up or pull over.

I think if you are driving at the speed limit, that’s at most inconsiderate. In the case above the driver was far below the speed limit. Unless there was a specific hazard or reason for driving slowly and not letting others pass, that is so inconsiderate as to be an offence.

Lootman wrote:I think if you are driving at the speed limit, that’s at most inconsiderate. In the case above the driver was far below the speed limit. Unless there was a specific hazard or reason for driving slowly and not letting others pass, that is so inconsiderate as to be an offence.

If lack of consideration was an offence I shudder to think how many drivers would get a ban
I have always said that every new driver should be made to drive a bus/coach/lorry (in a large off road facility), see how difficult it is, how your view is restricted and then they might start to give way when they see them, and allow space at roundabouts etc

Spet0789 wrote:

Arborbridge wrote:

Spet0789 wrote:
In that case he should have given her a summons for inconsiderate driving! At the very least he should have asked her what the speed limit was and fined her if she didn’t know.

Perhaps the otehrs road users were the ones who should have been judge inconsiderate?
A difficult judgement call, but it's a death spiral once we start pontificating about what speed people "ought" to be doing in order to drive within safe limits. My view of what is safe for a given road is often at odds with the view of others - judging by the lunatics I see around me - but I believe I am an alert and able driver who simply does not wish to push the boundaries of safety.

So many people drive on the assumption that nothing is about to get in their way, or pull out of a side road or from the blind side of a parked van but everyone has the right to road space - including a cyclist just round that blind curve, a car that's just broken down, a tractor with a load - etc etc. We do not have the right to drive at the maximum speed in all conditions, either - speed must always be within what we feel is a safe limit for the conditions, our ability and our state of mind. Accidents do not just happen - most are caused by poor personal judgement from one party of the other and it is our duty as one of those parties to drive well within safe limits to give leeway for error on the part of ourselves and other people.

Arb.

Of course judgement comes into it but driving too slowly for the conditions is an offence, just as driving too fast is.

There are bends on national speed limit country lanes with muck on the road, adverse camber, and sightlines obscured by high vegetation where driving over 10mph would be excessive. But from the description of this old lady as “pootling”, it would seem that there were no specific circumstances like that.

You will fail your driving test for “failing to make progress” - pootling. If your ability and state of mind don’t allow you to make appropriate progress in light of the road conditions, you’re not fit to hold a licence. If for any reason a queue of traffic is building behind you, you should notice that and pull over (as I would if I was pulling a trailer for example.)

In my view, drivers should be required to go for a 1 hour drive with an instructor at 40, 60, 70 and every 5 years thereafter, with a referral for an examined retest if needed.

Nothing like a 'driving' topic for getting some at least into their pontificating mood.

Dod

Arborbridge wrote:I was once stopped around Christmas time for driving too slowly - that is to say, on the speed limit of 30mph. The cop also noticed I had the window wound down too (it was a surprisingly warm evening), so putting those two facts together came to the conclusion I must have drunk too much.

Was this it?

I know somebody* (a non drinker) who was stopped because they were driving with the window open. When asked they were told by the police they take this as a sign of a likely drinking driver. Interestingly, I always drive with the window open (unless raining heavily).

* Somebody who seems not to recognise the concept of speed "limits". But that's another matter...