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Car insurance - claim or not

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Lootman
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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444697

Postby Lootman » September 23rd, 2021, 12:47 pm

Arborbridge wrote:Just on the point of being hit by a third party in a car park not being your fault..... the insurance industry rationale on this is that having been hit once demonstrates an increased probability of another accident and potentially a claim - even if you haven't claim on this first one.

They would argue that it might relate to the way you park or where you park or the carelessness of the driver population using that particular car park and that this increase in risk should be reflected in the premium. They had an unknown known which has become slightly more known.

It's tricky though. I would generally take the view that in any accident, if one vehicle is moving and the other vehicle is not moving, then the fault has to lie with the driver of the vehicle that was moving. In much the same way as if you drive into a tree then it has to be your fault. A fortiori if the driver of the non-moving vehicle was not even present at the time.

There might be a partial exception there if you were parked illegally or causing an obstruction.

Of course location might be a factor. If you regularly park on the street in a "bad" part of town then the risk might be perceived as higher. I am not sure how much more an insurance company can charge because of where you live or drive, without being accused of redlining. But I suspect most Lemons do not live in such areas.

I would like to think that insurance companies make no inference based on an isolated incident, but take notice more if there is a pattern of such incidents. But I am not sure I trust them to do that and so non-reporting and paying for the repair yourself, where plausible, seems prudent.

Dod101
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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444708

Postby Dod101 » September 23rd, 2021, 1:10 pm

Lootman wrote:
Arborbridge wrote:Just on the point of being hit by a third party in a car park not being your fault..... the insurance industry rationale on this is that having been hit once demonstrates an increased probability of another accident and potentially a claim - even if you haven't claim on this first one.

They would argue that it might relate to the way you park or where you park or the carelessness of the driver population using that particular car park and that this increase in risk should be reflected in the premium. They had an unknown known which has become slightly more known.

It's tricky though. I would generally take the view that in any accident, if one vehicle is moving and the other vehicle is not moving, then the fault has to lie with the driver of the vehicle that was moving. In much the same way as if you drive into a tree then it has to be your fault. A fortiori if the driver of the non-moving vehicle was not even present at the time.

There might be a partial exception there if you were parked illegally or causing an obstruction.

Of course location might be a factor. If you regularly park on the street in a "bad" part of town then the risk might be perceived as higher. I am not sure how much more an insurance company can charge because of where you live or drive, without being accused of redlining. But I suspect most Lemons do not live in such areas.

I would like to think that insurance companies make no inference based on an isolated incident, but take notice more if there is a pattern of such incidents. But I am not sure I trust them to do that and so non-reporting and paying for the repair yourself, where plausible, seems prudent.


I do not know if it still applies but at one time your postcode had a significant bearing on the level of premium for motor insurance and to some extent for house insurance. Obviously some neighbourhoods are more prone to burglary etc than others but maybe like treating the fact that females are likely to live longer than men and differentiating in respect of pensions say is now called discrimination. On the other hand a newly qualified young lad of 17 is gets a higher motor insurance premium than a 55 year old retired bank manager.

Dod

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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444714

Postby Arborbridge » September 23rd, 2021, 1:25 pm

I would generally take the view that in any accident, if one vehicle is moving and the other vehicle is not moving, then the fault has to lie with the driver of the vehicle that was moving.


Yes, that sounds like common sense for a general rule. However, insurance is about statistics, and the parker's behaviour also comes into it. For example, there's a car which always parks on a main road near me. It is perfectly legal and entitled to do so, but I can't help feeling when I see the two opposite lines of traffic threading round it during rush hour, that the owner is asking for trouble sooner or later.

And the insurance company takes the same view as regards parking in car parks, I would suppose, and it gives them a rational and valid reason for screwing a bit more out of you at renewal time! It would be the same if your paintwork got "keyed". Not your fault, but by parking where you do, you could be increasing the risk.

Arb.

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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444773

Postby 9873210 » September 23rd, 2021, 4:28 pm

Insurance companies care about correlation.

"Correlation is not causality" misses the point.

Lootman
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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444798

Postby Lootman » September 23rd, 2021, 5:47 pm

9873210 wrote:Insurance companies care about correlation.

"Correlation is not causality" misses the point.

Surely it depends on both. Whilst three accidents in five years is the same either way, three accidents where I was at fault is going to look worse to my insurers than three accidents where I was blameless. Fault is one of the factors insurers look at when deciding claims, and so surely also influences rates.

There are also possible correlations that an insurance company cannot legally charge more for, to do with race, religion and other protected categories of people. In fact they are probably not allowed to ask such questions on an application, and so will never see such correlations, even if they did exist.

But being a bad driver is definitely one they can and should charge more for.

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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#444972

Postby sg31 » September 24th, 2021, 10:38 am

pje16 wrote:On the subject of always declare
a few years go I didn't report one for over 3 weeks after the incident
I was never asked why I hadn't at the time
btw I have heard tales of just reports, not claims, putting up premiums, so my preference is to keep quiet on the score


It may well increase premiums for younger people if they report an accident and don't claim but it didn't for my wife who is, shall we say, a little more mature. As she had only past her test the year before I expected it might.

As an ex insurance underwriter I do still stick to the rules and gently encourage her to do so.

The incident was a door mirror clash where the other driver didn't stop. We reported it to the police and her insurer. The 3rd party was never traced.

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Re: Car insurance - claim or not

#445023

Postby Lootman » September 24th, 2021, 1:06 pm

sg31 wrote:As an ex insurance underwriter I do still stick to the rules and gently encourage her to do so.

I have had just one non-trivial accident in 50 years of driving. It was a low-speed head-on collision on a narrow lane in Devon where neither vehicle could move aside because of dry stone walls. It was in 1988.

After a brief chat the other driver and I agreed to part ways and say no more about it. No police, no injury. She was able to drive off but my radiator was punctured and so I had to get a tow.

Anyway the point was that I never reported it, even though the car was actually a write-off, since the cost of repairs would have exceeded the value of the car. So it is possible to get away with not disclosing an accident to insurers even if your vehicle is totalled.

And although that was a bit naughty, I have had not had an accident or claim in the 33 years that have ensued, so I think my silence has been proven to be justified.


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