Property purchase - proof of funds

[Sunnypad]

I took proof of ID plus proof of deposit to my first viewing - that agent seemed quite uncomfortable about it.

It was general advice given to me by the chap through whom I sold mum's investment property.

He doesn't like to show property without seeing at least because he thinks it weeds out timewasters.

I like the approach.

I feel like I've wasted someone's time today...I've done a second viewing on a flat that I'd probably offer on if it were the 15th flat I'd seen, but there are better locations in the area and it's flat no 3, so I'd rather hold off.

Sorry that's not DAK but in case was curious about my day

[Mike88]

I took proof of ID plus proof of deposit to my first viewing - that agent seemed quite uncomfortable about it.

It was general advice given to me by the chap through whom I sold mum's investment property.

He doesn't like to show property without seeing at least because he thinks it weeds out timewasters.

I like the approach.

I feel like I've wasted someone's time today...I've done a second viewing on a flat that I'd probably offer on if it were the 15th flat I'd seen, but there are better locations in the area and it's flat no 3, so I'd rather hold off.

Sorry that's not DAK but in case was curious about my day

Was that the flat on contaminated land? Just wondering if your views had changed in light of the replies you received.

[mc2fool]

I took proof of ID plus proof of deposit to my first viewing - that agent seemed quite uncomfortable about it.

Wot, no mortgage agreement in principle?

"In the case of a mortgage, evidence usually takes the form of a mortgage agreement in principle which you can get from your lender or via your mortgage broker, plus a bank statement showing you have your deposit."
https://hoa.org.uk/advice/guides-for-homeowners/i-am-buying/do-estate-agents-need-proof-of-funds/

Matter of interest, did they keep/take copies of your ID and proof, or just eyeball them?

As it seems one must show proof of funds at or very soon after making an offer, and generally one makes an offer very soon after seeing a property one wants, this doesn't seem a huge p.i.t.a. in itself. However, when looking for a property in a town/area one typically goes to several estate agents, and if each one were to keep/take copies of the proof I'd have some concerns about their security. Maybe a new source for fraudsters info: estate agents' bins, or breaking into estate agents looking for proofs of funds?!

The matter is more exacerbated if you intend to be a cash buyer, in which case you're quite likely to have to turn up with a stack of bank statements and printouts from brokers accounts, as fair chance you won't have all the money in one place....

[Clitheroekid]

Mind you, having just read this, it seems more checks should be in order. For the seller as well as the buyer.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-essex-59069662

So someone steals your house, and when you report it to the Plod their response is;

'Well, there's nothing further we can do here. This is a civil matter; you need to leave the house and contact your solicitors.'"

He then tried to contact police online, but received the same response.

No wonder fraud is rife.

[Clitheroekid]

Still, at least all the checks stop the dodgy Russian, African & Middle East money from buying up all the property in the south east

If only. Provided you're willing to pay enough in fees, you can very simply hide your stolen money in a dodgy Seychelles / BVI / Panamanian company and purchase your £50m London pied à terre with no problem at all.

[Alaric]

it's just if they check source of funds going into my main accounts, they will find mum's name and if they go back more than three years, they will find dad's name.

I thought there was a premise that once money is inside the UK financial system, it's regarded as clean, So when previous institutions accepted cash from your parents, the MLR checks were done at that time then or deemed to have been done. The same applying whenever you opened a fresh account.

If that wasn't the case, it would become next to impossible to transfer from one Broker to another, move ISAs, savings accounts etc.


It didn't seem to stop the Broker selftrade sending out intrusive questionnaires a few year ago,, but they were eventually forced to back down.

[Redmires]

Still, at least all the checks stop the dodgy Russian, African & Middle East money from buying up all the property in the south east

If only. Provided you're willing to pay enough in fees, you can very simply hide your stolen money in a dodgy Seychelles / BVI / Panamanian company and purchase your £50m London pied à terre with no problem at all.

Note: I did add an ironic at the end of the post

[UncleEbenezer]

Still, at least all the checks stop the dodgy Russian, African & Middle East money from buying up all the property in the south east

If only. Provided you're willing to pay enough in fees, you can very simply hide your stolen money in a dodgy Seychelles / BVI / Panamanian company and purchase your £50m London pied à terre with no problem at all.

Note: I did add an ironic at the end of the post

I thought the intended meaning of your post was clear, concise and to the point.

[gnawsome]

Just that the thought of an Estate agent demanding private statements does rankle with me somewhat.

I'd be tempted to copy those scenes from movies where I just open an attache case, show the cash stashed neatly inside and shrug. "Satisfied?" Guess it would backfire today.

Steve[/quote]

I did that in the late '70s.
£16k in a carrier bag on the day of completion.
Why? Because I had become so irritated by the solicitor repeatedly pestering me to provide the funds substantially before the day of completion.
The look on the secretary's face was very satisfying.

[Sunnypad]

Alaric, I hope you are right but without going off topic, the list of insane things that have been introduced is astonishing.

I didn't offer on the contaminated land flat - I had some other concerns about it. It was the first one I saw so it was hard to gauge what to expect.

Re source of funds, ignorance really is bliss. This is stressing me out because I have heard - on the proverbial grapevine - that cash buyers are being analysed very thoroughly going back years, so if this is true, my endless interest rate tarting will need a paperwork trail that will take solicitors a while to check - and frankly, me a hell of a time to find. I am hoping this isn't true.

Ironically I shredded a load of payslips during lockdown because I was sure I was staying put here. I also opened some long term investments that I've now closed with penalty. I shredded a lot of paperwork actually because what my parents gave me was more than 10 years ago.

Re security issues - yes, every EA and solicitor through this, and the sale of mum's flat, has blithely told us to email or WhatsApp everything. If you get them to take a paper copy, they will just scan it into their system and then I don't know what they do with it.

I realise no one in authority cares about identity theft so I don't know what recourse there would be if it happened.

[mc2fool]

Ironically I shredded a load of payslips during lockdown ...

Payslips are one of the things you should keep forever, 'cos they contain evidence of pension contributions and it's not a good idea to rely on anyone else having their own sources of that info.

I had disputes with two separate pensions a few years back when I asked them for forecasts and they both came back as less than I was figuring. In the case of one it was fairly easily resolved by my scanning in and emailing them two years of payslips from the mid 1980s (which was where the pension's records were wrong). In the case of the other I no longer had the payslips (I thought I'd kept them but they must have got lost in some house move or another) and it took nearly three years of back and forth to sort out....

[Sunnypad]

Mc2fool
So HMRC can't help with that?

I wasn't in my last two employer pensions so that's okay.

Some people didn't even get paper copies of payslips in my last job. HR would do them if you requested them but most people didn't, apparently.

[Sunnypad]

Okay, a hopefully good update
I'm aware there's a black hole in my memory from lockdown, so I went to the filing cabinet to check....

There are a few payslips - not all - going back to 2006, the letters of appointment for the jobs, confirmation of leaving the jobs, P45s, pension opt out forms and P60s.

There are also bank statements for my main current account going back to that date. So hopefully 15 years of records that will satisfy a solicitor about where my money came from and where I was employed in that period.

I really hope that's enough....

[mc2fool]

Mc2fool
So HMRC can't help with that?

Ha! You've reminded me that there was a third case of a pension forecast coming short of what I knew it should be -- a forecast for the state pension when HMRC managed to "lose" one of my qualifying years! To get that resolved I had to, at their request, send HMRC copies of all the previous state pension forecasts I'd had over the years, along with copies of their receipts to me for class 3 NICs I'd made along the way. After some months I got a letter admitting they'd managed to lose one of my years from 30ish years previously, and had now restored it.

Bottom line: keep your own records and copies of anything and everything related in any way to pensions, and keep them forever. Don't trust anyone else to reliably do so!

[Clitheroekid]

There are also bank statements for my main current account going back to that date. So hopefully 15 years of records that will satisfy a solicitor about where my money came from and where I was employed in that period.

I really hope that's enough....

I really think you're massively overestimating the enthusiasm of solicitors for checking the source of your funds. There's no way on earth that they will ask for copies of wage slips from years ago.

The large majority of firms are really quite lax about MLR because it's non-remunerative work, and they will quite happily accept your explanation without you having to provide anything other than the most basic evidence.

I'd suggest you actually speak to your solicitor and find out what they want rather than worrying about something that will almost certainly never happen - I would hope you'll be pleasantly surprised.

[Sunnypad]

Thanks Clitheroe
My solicitor said the problems are mostly caused if the other side's solicitor asks lots of questions

when I was selling mum's property as PoA, in week 10 the buyer's solicitor got worked up about the fact that my sister was named on PoA as part of the whole "jointly and severally" thing but was not jointly handling the sale with me.

We basically told them to stop getting their boxers in a bunch and use their common sense but I think in the end it was the buyer telling them to stop being numpties that was helpful.

They got the paperwork in Week 1. I presume they didn't look at it!

[Clitheroekid]

Thanks Clitheroe
My solicitor said the problems are mostly caused if the other side's solicitor asks lots of questions

The chances of that are somewhere between nil and zero!

The other side's solicitor has not the slightest interest in where your money is from - it's not his job to enquire. He is entitled to assume that your own solicitor has done all the necessary checks.

So either you misunderstood what your solicitor said or he's talking out of his [expletive deleted]!

[Sunnypad]

Thanks Clitheroe
My solicitor said the problems are mostly caused if the other side's solicitor asks lots of questions

The chances of that are somewhere between nil and zero!

The other side's solicitor has not the slightest interest in where your money is from - it's not his job to enquire. He is entitled to assume that your own solicitor has done all the necessary checks.

So either you misunderstood what your solicitor said or he's talking out of his Pink marshmallows!

Thanks
That's a new expression I shall use