The Lemon Fool

csearle wrote:

SteelCamel wrote:

XFool wrote:But the aerial has to connect to the chip and the RFID chip is combined with the Chip & PIN chip, there is only one chip per card. So isolating the chip from its surroundings ought to work and, as per my later post, I have now definitely scored through two pieces of copper at the top of the chip connector. I suspect my first attempt with the knife didn't go far enough in.

At radio frequency, it doesn't need to connect as in be physically touching. RF signals can easily jump small gaps. So if you've cut the wires but the cut ends are only microns apart, the RF signal will go through almost as if there was no cut. You need to make a wider cut to block RF signals - I don't know how wide it needs to be, but if there's no visible gap it's almost certainly not wide enough.

This is almost exactly the answer I was about to post. A small gap at such frequencies is just another way of describing a capacitor, which is a device frequently used in series along the RF signal path for various reasons including decoupling the DC biasing point of one stage of the electronics from the next.

Seems to me like a totally pointless exercise anyway. The interlocutor has to be very close; and anyway the banks are so very keen to promote their stuff that in my experience any fraud of any kind is almost immediately refunded.

C.

"Improve DC noise rejection via AC coupling using a scalpel" has the ring of a Practical Electronics article from the 70s
I can imagine it in the middle of this: https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Practical-Electronics/70s/Practical-Electronics-1978-01.pdf

csearle wrote:

SteelCamel wrote:

XFool wrote:But the aerial has to connect to the chip and the RFID chip is combined with the Chip & PIN chip, there is only one chip per card. So isolating the chip from its surroundings ought to work and, as per my later post, I have now definitely scored through two pieces of copper at the top of the chip connector. I suspect my first attempt with the knife didn't go far enough in.

At radio frequency, it doesn't need to connect as in be physically touching. RF signals can easily jump small gaps. So if you've cut the wires but the cut ends are only microns apart, the RF signal will go through almost as if there was no cut. You need to make a wider cut to block RF signals - I don't know how wide it needs to be, but if there's no visible gap it's almost certainly not wide enough.

This is almost exactly the answer I was about to post. A small gap at such frequencies is just another way of describing a capacitor, which is a device frequently used in series along the RF signal path for various reasons including decoupling the DC biasing point of one stage of the electronics from the next.

Seems to me like a totally pointless exercise anyway. The interlocutor has to be very close; and anyway the banks are so very keen to promote their stuff that in my experience any fraud of any kind is almost immediately refunded.

C.

Seems to me like a totally pointless exercise anyway. The interlocutor has to be very close; and anyway the banks are so very keen to promote their stuff that in my experience any fraud of any kind is almost immediately refunded.

A bit more complex than that. I think we have to look at it from other directions.

If clients do not have the choice to refuse the new contactless cards, then it will set a precedent for imposing other conditions. I have always been able to refuse contactless, but now it is becoming impossible.

What if the banks then say that anyone who renders their card 'normal' is breaking their T&C and cannot claim for any fraud. What if a law is passed confirming this?

I don't think for one second that banks are keen to promote their stuff. They just want millions of slaves to send their salaries and not ask questions.


Steve

I went shopping at Sainsbury's today, with by (ex)Contactless Barclaycard and can confirm that it didn't work. That is to say it did work! I need to verify this at Aldi's, in case their tills are more sensitive. But so far it seems to have worked.

So the future is a sharp metal tooth pick and a strong lens.

Just to explain, to anyone wondering about all this: "But what is the point?"

viewtopic.php?p=580472#p580472

Another triumph for RFID Deactivation today!

Chatting to a friend while getting on a bus I mistakenly took out my Barclaycard and tried to pay with it instead of my travel pass. It didn't work! Which, putting it another way, meant it did work.

Immediately realising my error I apologised to the driver, quickly replaced my Barclaycard in my wallet, took out my pass and paid with that.
Whew! I don't need to waste any time with TfL over the matter.

You know it makes sense!

XFool wrote:Another triumph for RFID Deactivation today!

Chatting to a friend while getting on a bus I mistakenly took out my Barclaycard and tried to pay with it instead of my travel pass. It didn't work! Which, putting it another way, meant it did work.

Immediately realising my error I apologised to the driver, quickly replaced my Barclaycard in my wallet, took out my pass and paid with that.
Whew! I don't need to waste any time with TfL over the matter.

You know it makes sense!

Well obviously if you've damaged it, it isn't going to suddenly start working again. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

An “error” in an overnight software update has left Sainsbury’s unable to deliver food or take contactless payments at its stores.

An error during an overnight software update has caused problems with contactless payments, a spokesman said, adding that all stores remain open and both cash and chip and pin transactions are working.

Tee, hee!

Not that I'd be that likely to be shopping in Sainsbury's, if I could help it. It's bad enough when it's 'working'.

Just looked at my Monzo card app and it allows me to set a zero amount for contactless payments and says "choosing £0 will decline contactless payments". My partner tells me Starling has the same facility.

y0rkiebar wrote:Just looked at my Monzo card app and it allows me to set a zero amount for contactless payments and says "choosing £0 will decline contactless payments". My partner tells me Starling has the same facility.

That sounds like a good idea to me. It would solve issues without requiring 'surgery'. I wonder if Barclaycard is similar? Pity I don't do "apps"!

XFool wrote:

y0rkiebar wrote:Just looked at my Monzo card app and it allows me to set a zero amount for contactless payments and says "choosing £0 will decline contactless payments". My partner tells me Starling has the same facility.

That sounds like a good idea to me. It would solve issues without requiring 'surgery'. I wonder if Barclaycard is similar? Pity I don't do "apps"!

You might be advised to rethink your Nokia, given how desirable your would find such a feature.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/help/cards/c ... it-in-app/

If you’d prefer a lower limit, you can use your app to set a limit between £5 and £100, or turn contactless payments off altogether. It’s quickest to change your settings in the app, but if you don’t have it, you can contact us to change them.

Off topic, but I suggest investigating "apps". You may find that an ipad or android tablet allows you to access these features, with the obvious disadvantage that they are not as portable.

Urbandreamer wrote:

XFool wrote:That sounds like a good idea to me. It would solve issues without requiring 'surgery'. I wonder if Barclaycard is similar? Pity I don't do "apps"!

You might be advised to rethink your Nokia, given how desirable your would find such a feature.

https://www.barclays.co.uk/help/cards/c ... it-in-app/

If you’d prefer a lower limit, you can use your app to set a limit between £5 and £100, or turn contactless payments off altogether. It’s quickest to change your settings in the app, but if you don’t have it, you can contact us to change them.

That's interesting! I never knew that. I remember ages ago asking Barclaycard if I could have a non RFID card and they told me "No", so I never looked into that route any further.

I do have an online Barclaycard account, I have never noticed a facility to turn RFID payments off, but worth taking another look.

y0rkiebar wrote:Just looked at my Monzo card app and it allows me to set a zero amount for contactless payments and says "choosing £0 will decline contactless payments". My partner tells me Starling has the same facility.

OK, but does it disable the RFID or is it still active and just declines any contactless payment requests it gets?

And if the latter and you have it in the same wallet as another contactless card (inc. a Freedom Pass or a Bus Pass) and you present the wallet to the reader, is the result that the other card is accepted or does the reader throw a "card clash" error?

mc2fool wrote:And if the latter and you have it in the same wallet as another contactless card (inc. a Freedom Pass or a Bus Pass) and you present the wallet to the reader, is the result that the other card is accepted or does the reader throw a "card clash" error?

It's the latter. Regarding payment card and railcard clashes, I keep them in separate wallets to avoid such clash potential.

y0rkiebar wrote:

mc2fool wrote:And if the latter and you have it in the same wallet as another contactless card (inc. a Freedom Pass or a Bus Pass) and you present the wallet to the reader, is the result that the other card is accepted or does the reader throw a "card clash" error?

It's the latter. Regarding payment card and railcard clashes, I keep them in separate wallets to avoid such clash potential.

OK. There is another solution...

Or get some of these for a "one wallet" solution https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DCY2D9K/

y0rkiebar wrote:Or get some of these https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B07DCY2D9K/

OK. But I still think that 'frontal lobotomy' is the neatest answer to RFID. Once it's done it's done and it's permanent (with that card) and you can forget about it. From then on it is just an ordinary CC and can be handled, put in your wallet etc. like every other card.

If you dress in a tinfoil suit and put your wallet through a toaster you will find that the lizard-people won’t be able to control your mind and all your RFID cards will be disabled.

Seriously, this thread is mental. Disabling RFID? Really? Consumer protection laws in this country for card users are amazing. Just look at your statements knowing that you can report anything dodgy, get refunded in moments and chill the f out!