Home Insurance: New Condition

[bruncher]

Our Home Insurance (Contents) Renewal has a new condition - that we have an Intruder Alarm System put into operation.

This is a first for us, and I don't know anyone else who has had this imposed.

The house does have an ADT alarm but we stopped the contract when we moved here approx nine years ago. The alarm has a couple of lights visible, so perhaps is still a deterrent.

It's an interesting co-incidence that an ADT rep was cold-calling in the area a couple of weeks ago, he seemed to assume that we were still paying, and told us that the box wasn't the latest type and should be upgraded. I told him we had cancelled the contract several years ago.

Is it more than a coincidence that our insurer has now asked us to have an operational system?

I previously told the insurer that there is system, but that we don't use it i.e. we have never set it when we leave the house.

[Dod101]

Was this condition imposed on renewal? If so why did you not just shop around? I would be very reluctant to accept such a condition because one day you would inevitably leave the house and forget to set the alarm.

OTOH not much point on having an alarm system and not using it. I doubt very much that ADT are in cahoots with your insurers.

Dod

[Dicky99]

Our Home Insurance (Contents) Renewal has a new condition - that we have an Intruder Alarm System put into operation.

This is a first for us, and I don't know anyone else who has had this imposed.

The house does have an ADT alarm but we stopped the contract when we moved here approx nine years ago. The alarm has a couple of lights visible, so perhaps is still a deterrent.

It's an interesting co-incidence that an ADT rep was cold-calling in the area a couple of weeks ago, he seemed to assume that we were still paying, and told us that the box wasn't the latest type and should be upgraded. I told him we had cancelled the contract several years ago.

Is it more than a coincidence that our insurer has now asked us to have an operational system?

I previously told the insurer that there is system, but that we don't use it i.e. we have never set it when we leave the house.

Could it simply be that because you have declared to them that your home has a security system you automatically benefit from a favourable premium but the quid pro quo is that you actually to "put it into operation,"
Perhaps they've tightened up their wording on this in the policy to cover them against home owners who don't bother to set it.

[mutantpoodle]

yes
i think that you will find other trick questions are also more important than is apparent

do you have window locks on all windows??
most would reply YES

but in event burglary entry by an unlocked window would likely inavalidate the claim

insurers 'claim' that window locks mean a better rate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so unlocked windows,,,,,,,,,

[bungeejumper]

I suspect that all insurers are tightening up their terms and conditions after a couple of years of losses. We are just renewing our rental property insurance with Axa (same as last year), but this year's policy stipulates that if the property is between lets, we must disconnect the water, gas and electricity and have the central heating system drained down.

Whereas the previous stipulation was that we should keep the central heating live, but on frost guard. And if the power's off, then it's goodbye to the burglar alarm, and goodbye to the lights that are timed to come on at different times. It would also be goodbye to the mains fire alarm system, if we had one. (Ours run on ten year batteries.) They don't seem to have thought things through particularly well.

We are required to seal up the letter box, in case of arson attacks. The window locks used to be required on the first and ground floors only - I'll have to check whether they now extend to the second floor as well?

Anyway, we've sent Axa's quote back to our broker to see whether we can persuade them to be a bit more reasonable.

BJ

[DrFfybes]

yes
i think that you will find other trick questions are also more important than is apparent

do you have window locks on all windows??
most would reply YES

but in event burglary entry by an unlocked window would likely inavalidate the claim

insurers 'claim' that window locks mean a better rate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
so unlocked windows,,,,,,,,,

We have a real mixture of window locks (all with keys, but we usually leave them in as there were 7 different types when we moved in), door lock types, 5 external doors (used to be 6) a mix of wood, uPVC, and a fire door into the garage, and an old alarm that does work but we never set it as it tends to go off on it's own, even in the rooms the dog doesn't use.

Consequently we always answer 'no' to all the security questions. Not sure it makes much difference to the premium, but when I was testing changing stuff Ifound that it made little diffreence to the premium and ticking the "Serviced and operational alarm" option brought the premium down by about 10% of the cost of the annual alarm service.

Of more importance to us was family jewelry (in a safe), artwork, and cover for a 1990s Linn/naim hifi that I was rather surprised what the replacement cost would be these days.

Paul

[UncleEbenezer]

Consequently we always answer 'no' to all the security questions. Not sure it makes much difference to the premium, but when I was testing changing stuff Ifound that it made little diffreence to the premium and ticking the "Serviced and operational alarm" option brought the premium down by about 10% of the cost of the annual alarm service.

I don't think it makes much difference to the premium. More likely to make a difference to who will give you a quote in the first place.

Re: the OP. Is it possible the insurer might assess your risk by postcode, and require certain security measures for some but not all postcodes? If your postcode had been re-classified, maybe that could have caused the change?

[bruncher]

Was this condition imposed on renewal? If so why did you not just shop around? I would be very reluctant to accept such a condition because one day you would inevitably leave the house and forget to set the alarm.

OTOH not much point on having an alarm system and not using it. I doubt very much that ADT are in cahoots with your insurers.

Dod

Our thinking was that having an alarm visible on the front of the house, with a couple of little flashing lights, was as good a deterrent as the same alarm for which we could optionally pay a £40 per month subscription.

The issue has come up apparently because the value of our contents has been revised upwards for inflation and is now above a threshold where an alarm is required in our postcode by the underwriter.

We'll have to discuss, but I expect we'll just go without contents insurance.

[Dod101]

Was this condition imposed on renewal? If so why did you not just shop around? I would be very reluctant to accept such a condition because one day you would inevitably leave the house and forget to set the alarm.

OTOH not much point on having an alarm system and not using it. I doubt very much that ADT are in cahoots with your insurers.

Dod

Our thinking was that having an alarm visible on the front of the house, with a couple of little flashing lights, was as good a deterrent as the same alarm for which we could optionally pay a £40 per month subscription.

The issue has come up apparently because the value of our contents has been revised upwards for inflation and is now above a threshold where an alarm is required in our postcode by the underwriter.

We'll have to discuss, but I expect we'll just go without contents insurance.

I inherited an ADT alarm and would never recommend them. Their service in an emergency may be fine but on day to day maintenance they are absolutely hopeless. I think you may be right. I have always thought that a visible box is a decent deterrent. Across the road from me a house was broken into when the owners were away. They had no alarm. I now use my alarm every time I go out but would be reluctant to accept a warranty to that effect for a 10% or whatever discount.

Dod

[Niksen]

I have always thought that a visible box is a decent deterrent.

Not sure it is.

If I was burgling properties then I would pick only properties that looked unoccupied irrespective of any alarm. Even if the unoccupied property had an alarm then I would know that it was highly likely the neighbours would ignore it until it annoyed them too much, by which time I would be long gone.

I rather suspect the reasons the insurance companies offer a theoretical discount if you have an active alarm are -
- you are the sort of person who is likely to take a bit more care in making sure the property is locked when going out; and
- it gives them an excuse to invalidate the claim if you forget to set the alarm.

[bruncher]

I have always thought that a visible box is a decent deterrent.

Not sure it is.

If I was burgling properties then I would pick only properties that looked unoccupied irrespective of any alarm. Even if the unoccupied property had an alarm then I would know that it was highly likely the neighbours would ignore it until it annoyed them too much, by which time I would be long gone.

I rather suspect the reasons the insurance companies offer a theoretical discount if you have an active alarm are -
- you are the sort of person who is likely to take a bit more care in making sure the property is locked when going out; and
- it gives them an excuse to invalidate the claim if you forget to set the alarm.

I'm not being offered a discount for having an alarm, I'm being told that I must have one if I want to renew with this insurer.

[kempiejon]

I have always thought that a visible box is a decent deterrent.

Not sure it is.

If I was burgling properties then I would pick only properties that looked unoccupied irrespective of any alarm. Even if the unoccupied property had an alarm then I would know that it was highly likely the neighbours would ignore it until it annoyed them too much, by which time I would be long gone.

I rather suspect the reasons the insurance companies offer a theoretical discount if you have an active alarm are -
- you are the sort of person who is likely to take a bit more care in making sure the property is locked when going out; and
- it gives them an excuse to invalidate the claim if you forget to set the alarm.

Yeah. if they've got an alarm there must be good gear in there. I've had neighbours' alarms go off for hours until they finally shut up, presumably by themselves. No cops nor rapid response teams. But here the example is no alarm no insurance. I'd be inclined to take my business elsewhere but if it's market practice perhaps insurance isn't possible. I have never had contents insurance.

[Maroochydore]

do you have window locks on all windows??
most would reply YES
but in event burglary entry by an unlocked window would likely inavalidate the claim

A few years ago I had contents insurance at around £75,000 and I was required to lock all windows.

Seeking to reduce my premiums I spoke to same company and reduced the cover to £50,000. At this point they said at that level there was no longer a condition to lock the windows.

Strange but true.

[Maroochydore]

I'm not being offered a discount for having an alarm, I'm being told that I must have one if I want to renew with this insurer.

My alarm is professionally maintained but I can only get a discount if it's monitored by the installer.

[Oggy]

Most insurance is a legalized scam, highly illogical and run by people who simply try it on. Just shop around if you are in any way dissatisfied. It is a chore and deeply frustrating, but I fear you have to manage your expectations in a country steadily going down the pan.

[Howard]

I have some experience of working with major insurers. They were professional organisations who, treated reasonable customers more than fairly.

However their underwriters and claims teams were pretty good at spotting scammers.

Reading the comments above, I think they might have a good idea picking out one or two of those on this thread .

regards

Howard

[Dod101]

Most insurance is a legalized scam, highly illogical and run by people who simply try it on. Just shop around if you are in any way dissatisfied. It is a chore and deeply frustrating, but I fear you have to manage your expectations in a country steadily going down the pan.

Were that truly the case do you not think they might have been found out by now?

Dod

[stevensfo]

I'm not being offered a discount for having an alarm, I'm being told that I must have one if I want to renew with this insurer.

My alarm is professionally maintained but I can only get a discount if it's monitored by the installer.

But is the discount greater then the cost of maintenance? Does the maintenance include replacing parts?

Don't forget that it's very easy to install your own system, and much cheaper. We've had a Yale system for nearly 20 years. The central control panel needs plugging in but all the contacts and PIR sensors are wireless and use standard AA/AAA batteries that last years. I did it myself after hearing how someone's house was burgled by the guy who installed it!

The maintenance? A simple Walk test that checks all contacts and a low battery warning.

I had to change the control panel after 10 years, but it's still going strong!

Steve

[Oggy]

Most insurance is a legalized scam, highly illogical and run by people who simply try it on. Just shop around if you are in any way dissatisfied. It is a chore and deeply frustrating, but I fear you have to manage your expectations in a country steadily going down the pan.

Were that truly the case do you not think they might have been found out by now?

Dod

They have been found out long ago by anyone who shops around and notices the huge discrepancies in premiums for like for like policies with similar levels of cover. Also, when challenged on premium hikes, it is rare indeed that the price does not come down. Additionally, heaven help you with some of these sharks if you have the temerity to make a fully legitimate claim.

[Dod101]

Were that truly the case do you not think they might have been found out by now?

Dod

They have been found out long ago by anyone who shops around and notices the huge discrepancies in premiums for like for like policies with similar levels of cover. Also, when challenged on premium hikes, it is rare indeed that the price does not come down. Additionally, heaven help you with some of these sharks if you have the temerity to make a fully legitimate claim.

I made a claim for damage to my car almost a year ago with a company that may
not be unknown to you, Direct Line..
I called their claims line and my car was picked up in a couple of days, repaired and returned to me within ten days, as promised.

Dealing with hundreds, nay thousands of individual policies say for household insurance is handled as a commodity and there could not possibly be individual underwriting so of course there is a broad brush approach.

In any case insurance is essential for commerce to operate. Without insurance we would not have aircraft flying in our skies, shipping on the seas and so on.

I fear that you have a very warped view of a major invisible export for the UK and the more you write the more your ignorance shows through.

Dod