HSBC (HSBA)

[monabri]

I could be the buyback supporting the price slightly but I think the market has risen generally and most reporting I've seen recently has been good with increasing dividends announced.

On banks, Stan and Lloyds following suit.

Lloyds has been pretty dreadful over the last 5 years ( total returns)...there's quite a gap between Lloyds and the others.

Source https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

[GoSeigen]

\
But of course this is not a tender offer so no one is actually selling their shares back to the company at least not knowingly anyway. Most people would think and I am amongst them, that a company ought to be buying back shares at as low a price as possible, below NAV if possible. This benefits continuing shareholders. Why on earth would a dip back to 500p be nice?

Dod

People are actually selling their shares back to the company, whether knowingly or not. The company is at least a large and active counterparty in the market as long as it continues its buyback. All shareholders should be aware of the buyback because they gave their authorisation by majority vote.

I'm not most people. I want a company to issue shares to investors at a low price and buy them back at a high price. If any shareholder doesn't like the price they have the option to exit. These buybacks are generally done close to market price, so there should be both willing buyers and willing sellers around.

"Why on earth would a dip back to 500p be nice?": Because I don't think this share is finished by any means, a price below 500p would add at least 25% to long term returns on new purchases relative to the 630p quoted up-thread. Maybe we'll see even better pricing for a couple of years, who knows?

Anyway, what happened to your plans to exit all the banks Dod? Isn't this the ideal chance to finally dump your HSBC shares having seen them almost double in three years?

GS

[csearle]

I want a company to issue shares to investors at a low price and buy them back at a high price.

Please forgive me, I don't understand this. HSBC don't "issue" me shares. If I want HSBC shares I have to buy them.

If they have a set amount of cash and use it to buy their own shares back at a high price they will be able to cancel fewer shares than if they had been cheaper, obviously. So this rather long-winded process of pushing the share price up with buybacks, so that it eventually trickles down to raising/sustaining dividends, will surely be less effective?

Are you looking at this in a specific context? Sorry to be so thick, please could you help me?

Thanks,
Chris

PS Personally, because I rarely sell, I would prefer to have the cash as a dividend so that I can choose which shares I consider to be cheap at that moment rather than wait for the process above to have any effect.

[Dod101]

\
But of course this is not a tender offer so no one is actually selling their shares back to the company at least not knowingly anyway. Most people would think and I am amongst them, that a company ought to be buying back shares at as low a price as possible, below NAV if possible. This benefits continuing shareholders. Why on earth would a dip back to 500p be nice?

Dod

People are actually selling their shares back to the company, whether knowingly or not. The company is at least a large and active counterparty in the market as long as it continues its buyback. All shareholders should be aware of the buyback because they gave their authorisation by majority vote.

I'm not most people. I want a company to issue shares to investors at a low price and buy them back at a high price. If any shareholder doesn't like the price they have the option to exit. These buybacks are generally done close to market price, so there should be both willing buyers and willing sellers around.

"Why on earth would a dip back to 500p be nice?": Because I don't think this share is finished by any means, a price below 500p would add at least 25% to long term returns on new purchases relative to the 630p quoted up-thread. Maybe we'll see even better pricing for a couple of years, who knows?

Anyway, what happened to your plans to exit all the banks Dod? Isn't this the ideal chance to finally dump your HSBC shares having seen them almost double in three years?

GS

I have never had a plan to exit all banks. In fact since 2008, I have only ever held HSBC and have no intention of selling. My announced plan was to exit the tobaccos over a two year period. In January I sold 50% of each and will sell the balance before long, probably next January.

Dod

[Gerry557]

I could be the buyback supporting the price slightly but I think the market has risen generally and most reporting I've seen recently has been good with increasing dividends announced.

On banks, Stan and Lloyds following suit.

Lloyds has been pretty dreadful over the last 5 years ( total returns)...there's quite a gap between Lloyds and the others.

Source https://www.hl.co.uk/funds/fund-discoun ... ion/charts

I agree, banks have had a terrible past. I'm taking about the last month or so. They have all reported better results for finals 2023 and increased dividends and started buybacks.

I have added both Lloy and hsba recently, both up 12 and 6 percent. The overall holdings haven't been that great though granted. Still the dividends have made up for things and this looks like its going to get better. I suppose it depends on your actual buy price and if you managed to get some at the lows affecting those poor figures things will look very good.

[GoSeigen]

I want a company to issue shares to investors at a low price and buy them back at a high price.

Please forgive me, I don't understand this. HSBC don't "issue" me shares. If I want HSBC shares I have to buy them.

I don't view myself as an isolated shareholder divorced from all the others. Any shareholder is a representative of the class of shareholders, so what happens to the shareholders as a class is relevant to me as an individual. My personal decisions as to my shareholding are evaluated in the light of what is happening to the class of shares. If shares are being issued, they are being issued to me too, as one of the shareholders. If they are being purchased and cancelled that affects me too.

As for personally taking part in issuance of shares I have two options: buy them directly if that is practical, e.g. in a public offering, or failing that buy them from sombody who can get them from the company. Which way it is done doesn't really matter, what I care about most is that the issue price is "low" and conversely when bought back by the company the purchase price is "high". Buying high and selling low sucks -- I've done it enough times to know.
.

If they have a set amount of cash and use it to buy their own shares back at a high price they will be able to cancel fewer shares than if they had been cheaper, obviously. So this rather long-winded process of pushing the share price up with buybacks, so that it eventually trickles down to raising/sustaining dividends, will surely be less effective?

I don't believe share prices are "pushed up" by buybacks any more than they are pushed up by anyone else buying. Share prices are not pushed anywhere by buying or selling, they are set by the most eager/desperate or inept participant in the market at any particular time.

As for returning money to share investors, there are only about four legal ways to do it: 1. dividends, 2. purchase authorised by shareholders, 3. capital reduction authorised by shareholders and high court, 4. issue redeemable shares. If the company has a set amount of money to return to shareholders then the method chosen doesn't really matter, the same amount of money goes out the door. Option 2 has to be an arms-length market transaction so the price at any time is what the markets/marginal shareholders "want" [with the earlier caveat].

As a shareholder I know that the final final value of my shares is nil -- that is where the share price is trending in the long term (unlike bonds which trend to their nominal value). So I want to time my exit for moments when the value of the shares is maximised, if the company happens to be buying its own shares I want them to give me a good price. If that means the company has less money remaining to distribute, well I knew that was going to happen eventually anyway.

When it comes to banks, as I've noted many many times in the past, they are and will continue to be awash with capital. They need to return that capital to their shareholders until such time as they feel that they are able to use it to profitably expand lending instead. If I'm to give up some of my shares I want that to be at a good price especially if the alternative is to be part of a shrinking business that has no immediate use for its capital.

I understand that this thinking can sound upside down, but it has and I think will continue to serve me well in allocating my own funds -- far better than the conventional "Wisdom" that buying shares makes price go up, selling shares makes price fall.

Are you looking at this in a specific context? Sorry to be so thick, please could you help me?

Thanks,
Chris

PS Personally, because I rarely sell, I would prefer to have the cash as a dividend so that I can choose which shares I consider to be cheap at that moment rather than wait for the process above to have any effect.

Again, I don't view selling as selling. I am transacting. I am selling shares but buying cash. Or bonds. Or gold. Or goods. Whatever. To me it's never selling, it's a trade. Same with buying. I'm not buying shares, I'm selling bonds to buy them. Or giving up cash liquidity/fixed price to buy them. And so on.

Obviously if one is a person who views buying as good and selling as bad (including because one sends prices up, the other down -- and I once practically fell out with my wife's cousin because he was horrified that I morally could short a share), then I guess none of this will make any sense. As for me, I have been a bond investor for some 15-20 years, and that very much colours my understanding of securities and how they work.

Hopefully that explains a little...


GS

[GoSeigen]

I could be the buyback supporting the price slightly but I think the market has risen generally and most reporting I've seen recently has been good with increasing dividends announced.

On banks, Stan and Lloyds following suit.

Lloyds has been pretty dreadful over the last 5 years ( total returns)...there's quite a gap between Lloyds and the others.

Other time periods are available...

GS

[idpickering]

Completion of the sale of HSBC Bank Canada to RBC.

HSBC Holdings plc ('HSBC') completed the sale of HSBC Bank Canada ('HSBC Canada') and its subsidiaries to Royal Bank of Canada ('RBC') on 28 March 2024.

The sale followed a strategic review of HSBC Canada which concluded the best course of action strategically for the HSBC Group and HSBC Canada was to sell the business. The transaction unlocks significant value for the HSBC Group.

And later;

Subject to finalisation of its results for the first quarter of 2024 ('1Q24') and consideration and approval by the Board, HSBC intends to announce a special dividend of US$0.21 per share together with its 1Q24 earnings release expected to be published on 30 April 2024. This would be in addition to any proposed interim dividend to be considered by the Board and would be expected to be paid at the same time in June 2024 if approved.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/announcem ... bc/8114277

Ian (I hold HSBA).

[idpickering]

HSBC CEO Quinn was interviewed on Bloomberg TV.

HSBC CEO Targets Lifting Wealth Business in China, India.

HSBC CEO Noel Quinn says he's pushing to improve the lender's wealth management capabilities in China and India to be on par with its key market of Hong Kong. He speaks exclusively with David Ingles at the inaugural HSBC Global Investment Summit.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/h ... t%20Summit.

Ian.

[idpickering]

Further to the above, the interview is being aired again on Bloomberg TV about 0630hrs (UK) today.

[idpickering]

HSBC to sell Argentina business for $550 mln, to clock a loss on sale.

HSBC Holdings PLC (LON:HSBA) said on Tuesday that it will sell its Argentina business to private financial group Grupo Financiero Galicia (NASDAQ:GGAL) for $550 million, and that the bank will clock a $1 billion pre-tax loss on the disposal.

HBSC’s Latin American unit had entered a binding agreement with Galicia for the deal, the bank said in a statement to the Hong Kong Stock Exchange.

HSBC said it will clock a $1 billion pre-tax loss in the first quarter of 2024 after the disposal, and that after the closing of the transaction, the bank will recognize at least $4.9 billion of historical cumulative foreign currency translation reserve losses.

https://www.investing.com/news/stock-ma ... le-3370497

A RNS from HSBC re this may be forthcoming?

Ian.

[idpickering]

Further to the above;

HSBC AGREES TO SELL ITS BUSINESS IN ARGENTINA

HSBC Latin America B.V., a wholly owned subsidiary of HSBC Holdings plc, has entered into a binding agreement to sell its business in Argentina to Grupo Financiero Galicia ('Galicia'), the largest private financial group in Argentina.

Noel Quinn, Group Chief Executive, said: "We are pleased to agree the sale of HSBC Argentina. This transaction is another important step in the execution of our strategy and enables us to focus our resources on higher value opportunities across our international network. HSBC Argentina is largely a domestically focused business, with limited connectivity to the rest of our international network. Furthermore, given its size, it also generates substantial earnings volatility for the Group when its results are translated into US dollars. Galicia is better placed to invest in and grow the business.

"We remain committed to Mexico and the US, and to serving our international clients throughout our global network with our leading transaction banking capabilities."

https://www.investegate.co.uk/announcem ... na/8126844

Ian.

[idpickering]

Fourth Interim Dividend for 2023 - Exchange Rate.

On 21 February 2024, the Directors of HSBC Holdings plc approved a fourth interim dividend in respect of the financial year ending 31 December 2023 of US$0.31 per ordinary share. The dividend is payable on 25 April 2024 to holders of record on 8 March 2024 on the Principal Register in the United Kingdom, the Hong Kong Overseas Branch Register or the Bermuda Overseas Branch Register. The dividend is payable in cash in United States dollars, sterling or Hong Kong dollars, or a combination of these currencies.

Dividends payable in cash in Hong Kong dollars or sterling were converted from United States dollars at the forward exchange rates quoted by HSBC Bank plc in London at or about 11.00 am on 15 April 2024 (US$1=HK$7.826950 and £1=US$1.248559). Accordingly, the cash dividend payable on 25 April 2024 will be:

Approximately £0.248286 per share.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/announcem ... te/8138067

Ian (I hold).

[idpickering]

Overseas Regulatory Announcement - Board Meeting.

EARNINGS RELEASE FOR FIRST QUARTER 2024 AND CONSIDERATION OF PAYMENT OF FIRST INTERIM DIVIDEND FOR 2024 AND SPECIAL DIVIDEND,

Pursuant to Rule 13.43 of the Rules Governing the Listing of Securities on The Stock Exchange of Hong Kong Limited, notice is given that a meeting of a committee of the Board of Directors of HSBC Holdings plc will be held on 30 April 2024 (the "Board Meeting") to consider the announcement of the Earnings Release for the First Quarter 2024 (the "Results") and to consider (i) the payment of a first interim dividend for 2024 on the ordinary shares; and (ii) the payment of a special dividend on the ordinary shares (together the "Dividend").

Subject to the approval and confirmation at the Board Meeting, the Dividend will be payable on 21 June 2024 to holders of record on 10 May 2024 on the Principal register in the United Kingdom, the Hong Kong Overseas Branch register, the Bermuda Overseas Branch register and for holders of American Depositary Shares in New York.

Further details of the Dividend will be detailed in the Results announcement if approved at the Board Meeting.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/announcem ... ng/8144867

Ian (I hold).

[idpickering]

Transaction in Own Shares & Conclusion of Buy-Back.

HSBC Holdings plc ("HSBC" or the "Company") announces that it has purchased for cancellation the following number of its ordinary shares of US$0.50 from Merrill Lynch International ("Merrill Lynch") as part of its buy-back announced on 22 February 2024.

And later;

The Company announces that, following the purchase of these shares, the buy-back has concluded. Since the commencement of the buy-back, the Company has repurchased for cancellation 127,570,463 ordinary shares on the UK Venues at a volume weighted average price of £6.2034 per ordinary share, and 127,412,800 ordinary shares on the Hong Kong Stock Exchange at a volume weighted average price of HK$61.3458 per ordinary share, for a total consideration of approximately US$2bn.

https://www.investegate.co.uk/announcem ... ck/8152955

Ian.