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Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

Family, children, advice, schooling, finance for children, all things kids.
TheMotorcycleBoy
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Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424566

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » July 4th, 2021, 12:31 am

Hi all,

Mel here - wondered if any of you could offer up any advice regarding accommodation for students with bills included?

Our daughter is due to move into her 2nd year student accommodation shortly (earlier than it would usually be as she has a summer job) and on her behalf, I have a few questions.

She is moving from uni accommodation into a house share with 2 friends through a letting agent.

They had asked for bills to be included in their rent, and the landlord/agent verbally agreed to this (this was agreed after a draft tenancy agreement had been drawn up, along with a couple of other bits to be changed in the property prior to the girls moving in). They have not yet received a copy of the signed agreement, but were informed that this would be provided to them before the tenancy began.

The main question is this: If bills are included in the rental charge, whose name should be on the utility bills? Our daughter has just received an email from the water supplier 'thanking' her for informing them that she's due to move into the property. This email gave her an account number and invited her to set up a direct debit to pay the bill. She never contacted the water company (or any other utility suppliers) as she and the others had expected that as bills were to be included, the landlord would be the one with his name on the account. Is it even legal for the letting agent to pass on her details without her permission?

Is it likely that her name would be on the account but the payment gets made by the landlord? If this is the case, then what would happen if the landlord didn't pay the bills on their behalf - I'm assuming that the utility suppliers would be hounding my daughter and her friends for the payments?

It all sounds a bit odd to us - surely bills included means just that, and the tenants wouldn't ever get to see the bills or have any of the accounts in their names, and the name on the account would be that of the person paying, i.e. the landlord in this case.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. She has tried contacting the landlord/agent (apparently they are one and the same!), but has yet to receive any reply and she was due to move in within the next couple of weeks - this email from the water supplier has now got her worried that something shady is going on! Also, she is going to be there on her own until September as the other two are home for the summer, so she's got to deal with him on her own on this.

Many thanks in advance,

Mel (and Matt)

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424586

Postby GoSeigen » July 4th, 2021, 9:10 am

Have DD send a letter/email marked URGENT to the agent stating clearly that on xxx date the landlord agreed with her that bills would be included in the rent; that this should be written as a term in the lease; that she has received a move-in letter from the water company and she will inform them forthwith that the landlord is liable for the water bills; and instructing the agent to forward to her within three working days a modified draft of the agreement.

Presumably there is no signed agreement yet so DD should be prepared to look for another place as insurance if cooperation is not forthcoming.


GS

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424595

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 9:24 am

Sounds to me like an administrative failure rather than an attempt to manipulate, given this is an agent whose modus operandi is for the students to pay their own bills. Whoever agreed 'bills included' has failed to communicate this fact to the office staff who does the admin.

Their failure to get it right plus their failure to supply a copy of the amended tenancy agreement signed by the landlord does seem to be a bad omen for the future though. Has your daughter parted with any money yet? I think this would be a Bad Idea until the agent ups their game.

Also, I suggest insisting on a copy of the gas certificate before stumping up the dosh. They may have a similarly slack attitude to this too.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424599

Postby Midsmartin » July 4th, 2021, 9:40 am

And if she hasn't already, take copious notes and photos of the current condition of the property, to ensure she is not blamed for existing wear and tear.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424605

Postby Gerry557 » July 4th, 2021, 10:08 am

Write to the water company and inform them that you will not be taking on the account and to contact the landlord, who will be the future bill payer. This should correct things that may have happened automatically as the default is for the person living there to be the default bill payer.

Council tax might be another issue, I think students get a discount the landlord might not.

If I were the landlord, I would be adding a clause about limits. Heating on full and all the windows open is the common when your not paying the actual bill. There is no incentive to save. Having a mock swimming pool is also fun. :geek: :D

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424608

Postby Lootman » July 4th, 2021, 10:19 am

TheMotorcycleBoy wrote:She is moving from uni accommodation into a house share with 2 friends through a letting agent.

They had asked for bills to be included in their rent, and the landlord/agent verbally agreed to this

Why did they ask for this?

As tenants it might seem simpler to just pay one amount and then forget about it. But as a landlord I would never have agreed to this. I would want the tenants to be responsible for utilities, TV license and council tax.

Also any money paid for bills is not profit so it is cleaner if the bills are separate. For anyone letting out rooms on the rent-a-room scheme, there is a maximum annual tax-free rent, but bills can be charged on top of that amount.

Again, if a tenant feels that all utilities are "free" then they have an incentive to turn up the heat to full 24/7, take 3 baths a day, and so on.

So I wonder if the landlord really agreed to this, as it does not seem to me to be a smart move at all.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424636

Postby Mike88 » July 4th, 2021, 11:33 am

Is it usual for tenants to have an agreement stating "bills included"? As a former landlord I believe this is unlikely given that tenants could use an unlimited amount of all utilities over which the landlord would have no control. I could be wrong, and possibly am, but I for one wouldn't agree for any renter to have a "bills included" agreement.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424649

Postby Midsmartin » July 4th, 2021, 12:05 pm

Or you'd charge a huge premium for such a deal to make sure you don't make a loss.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424650

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 12:13 pm

Given that it is very much in the student's interest to have 'bills included' and the OP's daughter is probably well aware of this, I find myself wondering if the negotiation to rent the room went something along these lines:

Daughter: I love it. Are bills included?
EA bod: No
Daughter: I'll take it if I can have it 'bills included'...
EA bod: (Winging it) ... Deal!

Later, the young and inexperienced EA bod puts this to the bosses and what with estate agents generally being manipulative blaggers, they say no... just sign her up on the normal agreement and hope they don't notice.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424654

Postby dealtn » July 4th, 2021, 12:25 pm

Mike4 wrote:
Later, the young and inexperienced EA bod puts this to the bosses and what with estate agents generally being manipulative blaggers, they say no... just sign her up on the normal agreement and hope they don't notice.


Some generalisation there!

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424657

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » July 4th, 2021, 12:32 pm

Hi everyone and thank you all for your replies.

The rental agency offers various packages for "bills included". The girls opted to pay £22 extra per week to include gas, electricity, water and internet. The agent/landlord was particularly keen and agreeable to this due to the property being an end terrace with 3 exposed walls and 2 bathrooms, so he wanted to make sure that they would ventilate and heat the house adequately to minimise damp problems etc.

This is a link to the property she is renting with her mates - one of the photos shows the packages they offer, they are opting for the silver package.

https://www.archliving.co.uk/property-details/29227151/leicestershire/leicester/lytton-road-1

Unfortunately, she has parted with some money as they had to pay half rent for the summer to secure the property, but she is now due to pay the remainder of the rent to pay the full amount to move in early over the summer.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424661

Postby RedKite » July 4th, 2021, 12:40 pm

Hi, motorcycleboy’s daughter here.
Thankyou for all the above replies :). As mum says above, the landlord really pressed for us to have the “bills included” package, and it is extremely common for students to be offered this package (not just from my landlord), due to it being an easy transition from uni ran accommodation.
Katie :)

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424663

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 12:47 pm

dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Later, the young and inexperienced EA bod puts this to the bosses and what with estate agents generally being manipulative blaggers, they say no... just sign her up on the normal agreement and hope they don't notice.


Some generalisation there!


I may have dealt with more estate agents than you!

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424665

Postby dealtn » July 4th, 2021, 12:53 pm

Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Later, the young and inexperienced EA bod puts this to the bosses and what with estate agents generally being manipulative blaggers, they say no... just sign her up on the normal agreement and hope they don't notice.


Some generalisation there!


I may have dealt with more estate agents than you!


That may be true, I don't know you. But my brother is one and doesn't particularly fit any known description of him, or any of his colleagues I have met either. Although I suspect it does fit your narrative.

How is your industry perceived by the public and does it fit the reality? I've only really worked in 2 industries, neither is remotely close to the public perception.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424669

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 1:04 pm

dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Some generalisation there!


I may have dealt with more estate agents than you!


That may be true, I don't know you. But my brother is one and doesn't particularly fit any known description of him, or any of his colleagues I have met either. Although I suspect it does fit your narrative.

How is your industry perceived by the public and does it fit the reality? I've only really worked in 2 industries, neither is remotely close to the public perception.


I don't think I have a narrative other than to write about my own personal experiences of estate agents. I agree, the small agencies and one-man-band agents are generally straight as a die and lovely to deal with. The chain agencies tend to be staffed by people at the opposite end of the spectrum. I finally managed to buy my last but one house which had gone to 'best and final offers' after discovering all my previous offers in writing had been concealed from the seller, as an example of the behaviour I've experienced with a chain EA. I discovered this having made friends with the son of the seller during one of my viewings, and later commenting to him I was surprised his dad had turned down my latest offer. The EA was pressing him to accept the 'only' offer on the table, a low one from a local developer. I have other examples with other property deals.

Regarding my own occupation, I think the public perception of plumbers is by and large, bang on. There are decent honest plumbers out there, and a helluvalot of honest but incompetent too. And a rump of outright deceitful and dishonest, just like estate agents.

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424695

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 3:14 pm

Redkite wrote:Hi, motorcycleboy’s daughter here.
Thankyou for all the above replies :). As mum says above, the landlord really pressed for us to have the “bills included” package, and it is extremely common for students to be offered this package (not just from my landlord), due to it being an easy transition from uni ran accommodation.
Katie :)


Hi Katie and welcome to TLF!

One thing not clear to me is whether you and the other two are renting this house on a single joint tenancy with the names of all three of you on it, or whether you and the others each have an individual tenancy agreement for one specific room, with access to shared facilities. Both are commonly used I believe.

And what documentation do you have so far, given you have already been paying half rent over the summer to secure your tenancy? Is it silent on who pays the utility bills?

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424708

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 4:25 pm

Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
I may have dealt with more estate agents than you!


That may be true, I don't know you. But my brother is one and doesn't particularly fit any known description of him, or any of his colleagues I have met either. Although I suspect it does fit your narrative.

How is your industry perceived by the public and does it fit the reality? I've only really worked in 2 industries, neither is remotely close to the public perception.


I don't think I have a narrative other than to write about my own personal experiences of estate agents. I agree, the small agencies and one-man-band agents are generally straight as a die and lovely to deal with. The chain agencies tend to be staffed by people at the opposite end of the spectrum. I finally managed to buy my last but one house which had gone to 'best and final offers' after discovering all my previous offers in writing had been concealed from the seller, as an example of the behaviour I've experienced with a chain EA. I discovered this having made friends with the son of the seller during one of my viewings, and later commenting to him I was surprised his dad had turned down my latest offer. The EA was pressing him to accept the 'only' offer on the table, a low one from a local developer. I have other examples with other property deals.

Regarding my own occupation, I think the public perception of plumbers is by and large, bang on. There are decent honest plumbers out there, and a helluvalot of honest but incompetent too. And a rump of outright deceitful and dishonest, just like estate agents.


And here is an example of a fine upstanding 'pillar of society' type of estate agent in the news recently. Meant to append the link in my post above.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/202 ... tate-agent

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424752

Postby RedKite » July 4th, 2021, 6:25 pm

Mike4 wrote:
Redkite wrote:Hi, motorcycleboy’s daughter here.
Thankyou for all the above replies :). As mum says above, the landlord really pressed for us to have the “bills included” package, and it is extremely common for students to be offered this package (not just from my landlord), due to it being an easy transition from uni ran accommodation.
Katie :)


Hi Katie and welcome to TLF!

One thing not clear to me is whether you and the other two are renting this house on a single joint tenancy with the names of all three of you on it, or whether you and the others each have an individual tenancy agreement for one specific room, with access to shared facilities. Both are commonly used I believe.

And what documentation do you have so far, given you have already been paying half rent over the summer to secure your tenancy? Is it silent on who pays the utility bills?

Hi Mike!

Myself and the 2 others are renting on a single joint tenancy, and all 3 of our names are on the agreement. So far, the only documentation I have, are our draft tenancy agreements (not inclusive of bills, due to it being the default agreement) , text messages with him stating he was adding the “bills included” onto our rent, and an e-receipt of my holding deposit (being the value of one weeks rent, deducted from our half summer rent.).

None of us tenants have ever received the final completely signed tenancy agreement, so do not know what what stipulated about the bills in the contract (I know it was rather stupid of me not to take a copy of the unsigned contract, but changed laptops so everything was lost).

The draft tenancy agreement that I currently do have, states that us as tenants will be paying the bills. However he had promised in a text message to all of us that he was to correct it and change the responsibility of the bills to the agent.

I believe my first steps should be to get ahold of my final tenancy agreement, and see what is stipulated about the bills, and then go about with who and how much I should be paying. I might be wrong, but does make the most sense to me!

Katie :)

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424757

Postby Midsmartin » July 4th, 2021, 6:47 pm

Ah, Clarendon Park. I drank a fair few student pints in the Old Horse down the road. I'm sure it's still a great area to be!

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Re: Student Accommodation Rent Advice Please :)

#424785

Postby Mike4 » July 4th, 2021, 8:25 pm

Redkite wrote:Hi Mike!

Myself and the 2 others are renting on a single joint tenancy, and all 3 of our names are on the agreement. So far, the only documentation I have, are our draft tenancy agreements (not inclusive of bills, due to it being the default agreement) , text messages with him stating he was adding the “bills included” onto our rent, and an e-receipt of my holding deposit (being the value of one weeks rent, deducted from our half summer rent.).

None of us tenants have ever received the final completely signed tenancy agreement, so do not know what what stipulated about the bills in the contract (I know it was rather stupid of me not to take a copy of the unsigned contract, but changed laptops so everything was lost).

The draft tenancy agreement that I currently do have, states that us as tenants will be paying the bills. However he had promised in a text message to all of us that he was to correct it and change the responsibility of the bills to the agent.

I believe my first steps should be to get ahold of my final tenancy agreement, and see what is stipulated about the bills, and then go about with who and how much I should be paying. I might be wrong, but does make the most sense to me!

Katie :)



Hmmm I've just looked more carefully at the estate agent listing and the plot thickens.

The three of you appear to have signed a joint tenancy agreement without reading, getting or taking a copy for yourselves. Or if you read it before signing it, you didn't amend it to make it fit the agreement you made to have "bills included" for the extra £22 offered on the website. This strikes me as a blindingly good deal given the 'bills' (presumably gas, leccy, water, council tax etc) will probably run to a four figure sum beginning with a 2 or close to a 3.

Presumably the LL actually meant £22 per week per person but the website doesn't actually say this. And I suspect you may have assumed it means £22 per month for the whole tenancy given the rent is quoted per month. So, I think you really need to open a dialogue with the LL to find out what each of you thinks "bills included" actually means and how the £22 relates to it i.e. is it per tenant per week, or what? If per tenant per week you are probably better off just paying the bills yourself rather than making waves over it.

Another point is if push comes to shove, once you take possession and move in your position strengthens considerably. Should you feel driven to withhold rent payments to force a dialogue on this, the LL will find it near impossible to evict you as the courts are clogged up for many months or years ahead for the LL to apply for a possession order, and then again for an eviction order to actually make you leave or so I hear. So you could easily have completed your degree by the time this gets resolved if it goes legal.

What Isuspet might have happened is the LL has realised the ambiguity of the "silver" offer on the website so if I were you I would grab some screenshots before they change that page!


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