The Lemon Fool

I've been looking at this on the Beeb
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67619470

and frankly I'm struggling to believe it, or comprehend it, or both.

The claim appears to be that 1 in 9 teenagers in the UK miss at least one meal a week because they or their family can't afford food.

So I found the original report...
https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/

And indeed on page 254 of part 2 there is a brief paragraph with this claim. What is unfortunate is there is no simple or clear link to how this data was obtained, and I presume the hungry students are different to the " around 30% of students, on average across OECD countries, reported that, in most or every mathematics lesson, they get distracted using digital devices" further down the same page.

Can this really be the case, or is there more to the sampling or reporting that isn't being made clear?

Paul

1 in 9 teenagers in the UK miss at least one meal a week because they or their family can't afford food

[Devil's advocate] Well, that's one place where ambiguity can creep in. The OECD report calls it food insecurity, but actually, British schoolkids have always skipped the occasional midday meal because they wanted to spend the dinner money on other things.

Such as drink, fags or nowadays vapes. Or else they just disappear to the park with their mates, and a Coke and a bag of crisps. Whether they'd declare that as a missed meal is something we can't really know? [/Devil's advocate]

To make proper sense of the statistics, we'd need to know whether the questionnaire process could spot that kind of a half-truth. And whether today's 10.5% meal-skipping in the UK is better or worse than previously, and whether the measurement criteria were consistent across countries where people might normally eat two, three or four meals? Does a country generally regard a midday meal as a light (optional) bite, or as an unmissable essential whose absence is alarming?

Questions, questions.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

1 in 9 teenagers in the UK miss at least one meal a week because they or their family can't afford food

[Devil's advocate] Well, that's one place where ambiguity can creep in. The OECD report calls it food insecurity, but actually, British schoolkids have always skipped the occasional midday meal because they wanted to spend the dinner money on other things.

Such as drink, fags or nowadays vapes. Or else they just disappear to the park with their mates, and a Coke and a bag of crisps. Whether they'd declare that as a missed meal is something we can't really know? [/Devil's advocate]

To make proper sense of the statistics, we'd need to know whether the questionnaire process could spot that kind of a half-truth. And whether today's 10.5% meal-skipping in the UK is better or worse than previously, and whether the measurement criteria were consistent across countries where people might normally eat two, three or four meals? Does a country generally regard a midday meal as a light bite, or as an unmissable essential whose absence is alarming?

Questions, questions.

Also take out the teenage girls who starve themselves in the name of vanity, to achieve that waif-like model figure.

bungeejumper wrote:

1 in 9 teenagers in the UK miss at least one meal a week because they or their family can't afford food

[Devil's advocate] Well, that's one place where ambiguity can creep in. The OECD report calls it food insecurity, but actually, British schoolkids have always skipped the occasional midday meal because they wanted to spend the dinner money on other things.

Such as drink, fags or nowadays vapes. Or else they just disappear to the park with their mates, and a Coke and a bag of crisps. Whether they'd declare that as a missed meal is something we can't really know? [/Devil's advocate]

To make proper sense of the statistics, we'd need to know whether the questionnaire process could spot that kind of a half-truth. And whether today's 10.5% meal-skipping in the UK is better or worse than previously, and whether the measurement criteria were consistent across countries where people might normally eat two, three or four meals? Does a country generally regard a midday meal as a light (optional) bite, or as an unmissable essential whose absence is alarming?

Questions, questions.

BJ

Manys a time I lunched out on 3 single tabs and a strip of matches. Just last week in fact

Tedx wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:[Devil's advocate] Well, that's one place where ambiguity can creep in. The OECD report calls it food insecurity, but actually, British schoolkids have always skipped the occasional midday meal because they wanted to spend the dinner money on other things.

Such as drink, fags or nowadays vapes. Or else they just disappear to the park with their mates, and a Coke and a bag of crisps. Whether they'd declare that as a missed meal is something we can't really know? [/Devil's advocate]

To make proper sense of the statistics, we'd need to know whether the questionnaire process could spot that kind of a half-truth. And whether today's 10.5% meal-skipping in the UK is better or worse than previously, and whether the measurement criteria were consistent across countries where people might normally eat two, three or four meals? Does a country generally regard a midday meal as a light (optional) bite, or as an unmissable essential whose absence is alarming?

Questions, questions.

BJ

Manys a time I lunched out on 3 single tabs and a strip of matches. Just last week in fact

It can't be the same since you've had to leave the snooker hall? Realistically though that was probably healthier than waiting for them to deep fry a "pizza" in the school canteen

DrFfybes wrote:I've been looking at this on the Beeb
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-67619470

and frankly I'm struggling to believe it, or comprehend it, or both.

The claim appears to be that 1 in 9 teenagers in the UK miss at least one meal a week because they or their family can't afford food.

So I found the original report...
https://www.oecd.org/publication/pisa-2022-results/

And indeed on page 254 of part 2 there is a brief paragraph with this claim. What is unfortunate is there is no simple or clear link to how this data was obtained, and I presume the hungry students are different to the " around 30% of students, on average across OECD countries, reported that, in most or every mathematics lesson, they get distracted using digital devices" further down the same page.

Can this really be the case, or is there more to the sampling or reporting that isn't being made clear?

Paul

It might at first sight seem to be at odds with the adolescent obesity crisis in the UK, itself linked to poverty, except that missing 1 meal per week wouldn't reverse that.

Dicky99 wrote:

DrFfybes wrote:frankly I'm struggling to believe it, or comprehend it, or both.

Can this really be the case, or is there more to the sampling or reporting that isn't being made clear?

It might at first sight seem to be at odds with the adolescent obesity crisis in the UK, itself linked to poverty, except that missing 1 meal per week wouldn't reverse that.

There is this entire theory out there that folks who do not have enough to eat become fat.

In one sense it could happen if those folks resort to junk food and takeaways all the time.

But if we are all starving then why is it that every restaurant in my area is packed even whilst increasing prices?

A teen missing a meal at least once a week. That is no surprise they don't get out of bed until the afternoon on weekends.

I'm surprised it's so low.

I suppose it depends on how the question is asked and reported. You can manufacture outcomes that way.

The army were informed that the troops wanted Mcdonalds on the bases after a study during Pay as you dine or called pay as you starve.

This related to a question on what would you do if the mess hall was closed. There was only a limited and fixed reply. So when they gave their answer which wasn't on the list, McDonald's was selected as it was the closest.

But if we are all starving then why is it that every restaurant in my area is packed even whilst increasing prices?

Because it's every restaurant in your area?

The well off have done very well out of the BOE's decision to take money from the less well off and shovel it into the bank accounts of the wealthy.

Lootman wrote:There is this entire theory out there that folks who do not have enough to eat become fat.

In one sense it could happen if those folks resort to junk food and takeaways all the time.

Yeah, you've got it in one, although the motivation's a bit more complicated than that.

It isn't just laziness or perversity that makes people head for Greggs when they might be able to knock up a quinoa and goji berry salad for half the price. It's the comfort food thing. The calorie-loaded stodge sits in your belly and immediately starts releasing satisfaction hormones that few other things can equal.

And when you're losing touch with budgeting and you don't dare to look at your bank balance, that might be what you're going to do. I'm not defending it, but understanding it is a good place to start.

BJ

bungeejumper wrote:

Lootman wrote:There is this entire theory out there that folks who do not have enough to eat become fat.

In one sense it could happen if those folks resort to junk food and takeaways all the time.

Yeah, you've got it in one, although the motivation's a bit more complicated than that.

It isn't just laziness or perversity that makes people head for Greggs when they might be able to knock up a quinoa and goji berry salad for half the price. It's the comfort food thing. The calorie-loaded stodge sits in your belly and immediately starts releasing satisfaction hormones that few other things can equal.

And when you're losing touch with budgeting and you don't dare to look at your bank balance, that might be what you're going to do. I'm not defending it, but understanding it is a good place to start.

BJ

Well maybe not laziness or perversity, more ignorance given that the average Greggs customer wouldn't know what quinoa is let alone what to do with it.

At 59 I'm maybe close to the last generation of offspring whose mums who had to cook meals. When money got tough the menu changed accordingly. Liver and onions comes to mind

There is a generation I guess that grew up on whack it in the oven food who now rely on the likes of Deliveroo et al. Some of my neighbours get breakfast delivered.
So now when times get tough people who cannot cook are less able to accommodate like my mum's generation had to, hence the media bleating about food poverty and the inexorable rise of the food bank culture.

Dicky99 wrote:

bungeejumper wrote:It isn't just laziness or perversity that makes people head for Greggs when they might be able to knock up a quinoa and goji berry salad for half the price. It's the comfort food thing. The calorie-loaded stodge sits in your belly and immediately starts releasing satisfaction hormones that few other things can equal.

And when you're losing touch with budgeting and you don't dare to look at your bank balance, that might be what you're going to do. I'm not defending it, but understanding it is a good place to start.

maybe not laziness or perversity, more ignorance given that the average Greggs customer wouldn't know what quinoa is let alone what to do with it.

At 59 I'm maybe close to the last generation of offspring whose mums who had to cook meals. When money got tough the menu changed accordingly. Liver and onions comes to mind

There is a generation I guess that grew up on whack it in the oven food who now rely on the likes of Deliveroo et al. Some of my neighbours get breakfast delivered.

So now when times get tough people who cannot cook are less able to accommodate like my mum's generation had to, hence the media bleating about food poverty and the inexorable rise of the food bank culture.

One of my sons' friends even has a cup of coffee delivered first thing. I think it costs her £5 a pop. And one of my sons uses Deliveroo twice on a normal day, although he usually orders something ethnic rather than junk.

Junk food does not sit well in my stomach. It sits there like a lead balloon and I feel like crap afterwards.

Lootman wrote:he usually orders something ethnic rather than junk.

There's plenty of ethnic junk. Those terms are by no means exclusive.

Most curries start with a base of fresh cream.
Plenty of "Chinese**" food is deep fried, or stuffed with MSG.

**By which I mean, the food which Brits call Chinese, and the Americans call Japanese. But in fact much of it was invented or adapted in the West to suit our tastes, and bears only a passing resemblance to traditional oriental food.

Gryff

gryffron wrote:Plenty of "Chinese**" food is deep fried, or stuffed with MSG.

**By which I mean, the food which Brits call Chinese, and the Americans call Japanese.

Indeed. Monosodium glutamate was invented/discovered in 1908 by a Japanese scientist, who found that it created another enhanced "family" of taste bud experiences (alongside sweet, sour, bitter and salty) which he decided to call umami.

Nowadays you can't open a cookbook without reading about what an authentic, natural piece of wholly traditional Japanese culture umami is. You can fool some of the people most of the time.....

As a flavour intensifier, though, it does all right for the takeaway trade. Which is where we came in.....

BJ

gryffron wrote:

Lootman wrote:he usually orders something ethnic rather than junk.

There's plenty of ethnic junk. Those terms are by no means exclusive.

Most curries start with a base of fresh cream.
Plenty of "Chinese**" food is deep fried, or stuffed with MSG.

**By which I mean, the food which Brits call Chinese, and the Americans call Japanese. But in fact much of it was invented or adapted in the West to suit our tastes, and bears only a passing resemblance to traditional oriental food.

Having spent some time in both China and Japan, I would agree that Chinese food can be quite different there than here. Of course it can be a lot better here than there as well.

But Japanese food here and in America is similar to that served in Japan, in my experience.

Dicky99 wrote:At 59 I'm maybe close to the last generation of offspring whose mums who had to cook meals. When money got tough the menu changed accordingly. Liver and onions comes to mind

My father and his parents used to talk of eating while poor, having a starter of Yorkshire pudding with Sunday roasts and bugger all meat, tripe and onions, home grown veg and breeding their own chickens for meat and eggs. I sill revisit some of their meals like dumplings in stew, pease pudding with ham bones, panackelty, bubble and squeak, unwanted meat cuts and offal, like brawn, liver and onions, faggots or devilled kidneys. Dad told me chicken was special and saved for Christmas and holidays whereas I think chicken is very low rent meat these days.
I mostly cook from scratch so some ingredients cost pennies but prepared food is expensive. Time poor, unskilled parents can't feed for as little as I can but perhaps need to more.

kempiejon wrote:

Dicky99 wrote:At 59 I'm maybe close to the last generation of offspring whose mums who had to cook meals. When money got tough the menu changed accordingly. Liver and onions comes to mind

My father and his parents used to talk of eating while poor, having a starter of Yorkshire pudding with Sunday roasts and bugger all meat, tripe and onions, home grown veg and breeding their own chickens for meat and eggs. I sill revisit some of their meals like dumplings in stew, pease pudding with ham bones, panackelty, bubble and squeak, unwanted meat cuts and offal, like brawn, liver and onions, faggots or devilled kidneys. Dad told me chicken was special and saved for Christmas and holidays whereas I think chicken is very low rent meat these days.
I mostly cook from scratch so some ingredients cost pennies but prepared food is expensive. Time poor, unskilled parents can't feed for as little as I can but perhaps need to more.

I used to hate liver when I was young, but it was only years later that I realised it was because my mum fried the whole slab with nothing else apart from maybe the salt. Liver and spam fritters were the only things I disliked. Everything else, we gobbled up. It was my wife who introduced me to chicken liver cooked with loads of onions and spices, and I couldn't get enough of it.

I won't eat tripe but it's more pschological than the taste.

Re. faggots, they were one of the products we made when I worked in a meat factory as a student. Basically the rubbish parts of every meat cooked with a very strong sauce. We made the sauce in plastic buckets. I never had a another faggot after that. Likewise black pudding: 90% fat and blood with loads of seasoning. I had loads of jobs and I hated that one most, though ironically my parents loved me working there cos we could order meat at very low prices and they lived like royalty for a few months!

Off at a tangent, but remember tongue? Years ago I once had it in a French cafeteria and they hadn't taken the skin off. It was like exploring my own tongue in my mouth. I think I was too shocked to throw up, spat it out and left! Never again!!

Steve

stevensfo wrote:
I used to hate liver when I was young, but it was only years later that I realised it was because my mum fried the whole slab with nothing else apart from maybe the salt. [...]
Off at a tangent, but remember tongue? Years ago I once had it in a French cafeteria and they hadn't taken the skin off.

Last week MrsF was away, this meant I could have...

Tongue sandwiches for lunch, faggots (yup, made from the bits even sausage manufacturers reject ) and mash for tea, didn't have the Black Pud as she likes it as well, and didn't do liver but did do Oxtail, and sometimes I have lamb heart when she's away, but the one thing I don't like is Tripe.

Dad ate tripe, I tried it once, not keen. Also I'm a bit suspicious of it, as if I can start to digest stomach lining, am I in danger of developing ulcers, or my pudding going straight through?

Paul

DrFfybes wrote:

stevensfo wrote:
I used to hate liver when I was young, but it was only years later that I realised it was because my mum fried the whole slab with nothing else apart from maybe the salt. [...]
Off at a tangent, but remember tongue? Years ago I once had it in a French cafeteria and they hadn't taken the skin off.

Last week MrsF was away, this meant I could have...

Tongue sandwiches for lunch, faggots (yup, made from the bits even sausage manufacturers reject ) and mash for tea, didn't have the Black Pud as she likes it as well, and didn't do liver but did do Oxtail, and sometimes I have lamb heart when she's away, but the one thing I don't like is Tripe.

Dad ate tripe, I tried it once, not keen. Also I'm a bit suspicious of it, as if I can start to digest stomach lining, am I in danger of developing ulcers, or my pudding going straight through?

Paul

Yes, a bit complicated. I remember loving faggots, tripe and black pudding, but at a certain point, I just couldn't bring myself to look at them. Tripe and black pudding are perfectly harmless and nutritious, but I was too busy analysing what was in them...!

The French are not as squeamish as the Brits and don't bother to disguise their food. e.g. Brits smothering anything from the sea in bleedin' breadcrumbs and batter! I hate that!! Thus it was, the only ever time my wife asked me to go to McDonalds was after our eldest was born in France and they served her brain for lunch. Apparently it looked exactly like... a brain! And it wobbled! I didn't actually see it, and I'm glad I didn't, but given that she is as hard as nails, grew up on a small farm and dissected rats in the lab, it must have had quite an impact on her!

She only remembers the brain being taken away by a guy with a hump called 'Igor' who seemed very happy.

Steve

stevensfo wrote:Yes, a bit complicated. I remember loving faggots, tripe and black pudding, but at a certain point, I just couldn't bring myself to look at them. Tripe and black pudding are perfectly harmless and nutritious, but I was too busy analysing what was in them...!

This I find most interesting, not liking the idea of something making it uneatable. We know it doesn't change the taste, but apparently thought can over ride that. Tripe and trotters I have eaten a few times it's the dish I don't like not the idea of where the ingredients come from. Gloopy gelatinous issue doesn't work for me but I like porridge.