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ARK Invest

General discussions about growth strategies which focus primarily on investing for capital growth
Adamski
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ARK Invest

#377968

Postby Adamski » January 17th, 2021, 8:58 am

Morning, has anyone here invested in, or considering, Ark Invest Etfs (via eToro).

They are the Scottish Mortgage of the US market with growth well in excess of 100% last year. Like Baillie Gifford, Ark took off with massive growth in 2020, as it's invested in the same theme, disruptive innovation. Fees on Ark are higher than Smt.

Because of EU finance law Europeans are prohibited from owning US ETFs. However you can buy 3 of the Ark Etfs via eToro. However these are CFDs, contracts for difference, financial derivatives where you don't own the underlying asset.

EToro offer Arkk Ark Innovation, Arkf Fintech Innovation, Arkw Next Gen Internet. they make margin on the spread between buy and sell price.

I haven't seen in mentioned in this forum before, but think it is an interesting growth fund, although high risk.

Opened an etoro account, it's more akin to a social media platform (not my sort of thing, although this is social media, but you know what I mean!) where much of the discussion is by millennials on crypto or day trading, rather than investing. However thought would be interesting to see how this performs. Put a minimum amount spread across Ark etfs, and may drip feed over next few weeks. You have to invest in dollars. Your thoughts?

Urbandreamer
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Re: ARK Invest

#377979

Postby Urbandreamer » January 17th, 2021, 10:12 am

Adamski wrote:Morning, has anyone here invested in, or considering, Ark Invest Etfs (via eToro).

They are the Scottish Mortgage of the US market with growth well in excess of 100% last year. Like Baillie Gifford, Ark took off with massive growth in 2020, as it's invested in the same theme, disruptive innovation. Fees on Ark are higher than Smt.

Because of EU finance law Europeans are prohibited from owning US ETFs. However you can buy 3 of the Ark Etfs via eToro. However these are CFDs, contracts for difference, financial derivatives where you don't own the underlying asset.

EToro offer Arkk Ark Innovation, Arkf Fintech Innovation, Arkw Next Gen Internet. they make margin on the spread between buy and sell price.

I haven't seen in mentioned in this forum before, but think it is an interesting growth fund, although high risk.

Opened an etoro account, it's more akin to a social media platform (not my sort of thing, although this is social media, but you know what I mean!) where much of the discussion is by millennials on crypto or day trading, rather than investing. However thought would be interesting to see how this performs. Put a minimum amount spread across Ark etfs, and may drip feed over next few weeks. You have to invest in dollars. Your thoughts?


I am interested in ARK, though as I can't invest my interest is limited.

As I understand it the EU don't prohibit ETF's because they are US registered. Instead they require all ETF's that trade in the EU to provide a document called KID. Many US firms can't be bothered as they don't need overseas investors. ARK in particular really don't need more investors.

As you say many of their funds have done stunningly well. Though I believe that they were caught in the Wirecard debacle.

Re CFDs, I never traded them but I did dabble with spread betting for a year. It was great fun, but I always knew that it wouldn't make me rich. I believe that more than 70% of those involved lose money. My losses were small, but they were losses. The majority will ALWAYS lose as the service costs and even if it didn't 50% would HAVE to lose. The difference between the 50% and the +70% is the profits and costs of the likes of etoro.

Is ARK similar to SMT? Well I could argue it either way. Certainly I would argue that SMT has a narrower focus. I don't believe that they seek Fintech or medical disruptors and I'm fairly certain that they haven't yet invested in space. Another difference is that I can and do hold SMT in my portfolio.

If any are interested in ARK or finding out what we are talking about they might like this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA6ug5NWob4

tikunetih
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Re: ARK Invest

#378017

Postby tikunetih » January 17th, 2021, 1:12 pm

Make sure you understand the implications of what appear to be their very large percentage holdings (large proportion of the free float) in various stocks.

eg. See this thread for discussion & examples:
https://twitter.com/EconomPic/status/13 ... 2154484737

It seems they decided to allow fund inflows to grow their holdings in individual stocks unchecked, without any caps. As mentioned on the thread, that will have made inflows highly reflexive, ie. inflows will have significantly driven the prices of the underlying stocks upwards.

That's very much a "make hay while the sun shines" situation IMO, because when ETF inflows become outflows as they always do eventually for some reason or other, the funds will be faced with selling down positions that are likely to have become very illiquid due to their sheer size w.r.t the free float. It's not hard to imagine how in a decent sell-off, these ETFs could suffer large price dislocations and absolutely tank.

Eyes wide open & caveat emptor!

Adamski
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Re: ARK Invest

#378044

Postby Adamski » January 17th, 2021, 2:19 pm

Thanks for comments guys. Point taken on risk, which is why I only put minimum amount in and spread across 3 etf's. Each of which has 35-55 holdings. Guess not much different risk profile to Smt and BG American as remember took big hits in 2018 corrections as heavy in US tech.

dspp
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Re: ARK Invest

#378073

Postby dspp » January 17th, 2021, 3:16 pm

Adamski wrote:Morning, has anyone here invested in, or considering, Ark Invest Etfs (via eToro).

They are the Scottish Mortgage of the US market with growth well in excess of 100% last year. Like Baillie Gifford, Ark took off with massive growth in 2020, as it's invested in the same theme, disruptive innovation. Fees on Ark are higher than Smt.

Because of EU finance law Europeans are prohibited from owning US ETFs. However you can buy 3 of the Ark Etfs via eToro. However these are CFDs, contracts for difference, financial derivatives where you don't own the underlying asset.

EToro offer Arkk Ark Innovation, Arkf Fintech Innovation, Arkw Next Gen Internet. they make margin on the spread between buy and sell price.

I haven't seen in mentioned in this forum before, but think it is an interesting growth fund, although high risk.

Opened an etoro account, it's more akin to a social media platform (not my sort of thing, although this is social media, but you know what I mean!) where much of the discussion is by millennials on crypto or day trading, rather than investing. However thought would be interesting to see how this performs. Put a minimum amount spread across Ark etfs, and may drip feed over next few weeks. You have to invest in dollars. Your thoughts?


I'm doing this via Charles Schwab, see viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27216, regards, dspp

ReallyVeryFoolish
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Re: ARK Invest

#378141

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » January 17th, 2021, 7:04 pm

Funnily enough, there's an article about the ARK ETFs in this weekend's FT. I will be avoiding them, since by the time the great unwashed such as myself become aware of a bandwagon rolling, it's already too late to climb aboard. A press article is a solid signal to be very wary indeed of joining the party. This ship has long sailed.

RVF

Adamski
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Re: ARK Invest

#378223

Postby Adamski » January 18th, 2021, 8:30 am

dspp wrote:I'm doing this via Charles Schwab, see viewtopic.php?f=26&t=27216, regards, dspp


Great, it's not just me putting a small punt on this. I'll post % returns after a few months vs. S&P 500. Be interesting to see how you get on with this and Baron as well.

airbus330
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Re: ARK Invest

#378504

Postby airbus330 » January 19th, 2021, 7:41 am

another analysis of ark which is well presented https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gLG1yDg ... nsionCraft

Adamski
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Re: ARK Invest

#379375

Postby Adamski » January 21st, 2021, 3:48 pm

I know its just a week in, and this is a small sum, but a quick update...

In the week on eToro I've got a return in $ of 0.2%, and in £ of -0.8%.

I know eToro isn't "free" (never thought it would be!). They make 0.5% on the deposit fx conversion, then 0.25% on the spread between buy and sell. So you deposit in £, and they convert to $ and take a fee. Then you invest and they take a fee on the spread.

There is no ongoing cost or commission, hence market themselves as a free platform.

The return in Ark in the past week is c. 2.4% (same as SMT). However as I drip fed over the week, had a return of 1.2%. But once deducted deposit conversion, buying spread and fx loss from £/ $ movement over the week, then left with a small net loss in sterling.

My early conclusion is it's not such a great deal, and would be better buying the UK equiv - SMT. However, early days, and shall track it for a while longer before deciding.

dealtn
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Re: ARK Invest

#379409

Postby dealtn » January 21st, 2021, 5:32 pm

Adamski wrote:I know its just a week in, and this is a small sum, but a quick update...

My early conclusion is it's not such a great deal, and would be better buying the UK equiv - SMT. However, early days, and shall track it for a while longer before deciding.


You are beginning to make conclusions on investing, and a growth strategy, after a time frame of a week!

Are you sure you are an investor and not a trader, or gambler?

Adamski
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Re: ARK Invest

#379467

Postby Adamski » January 21st, 2021, 8:23 pm

@dealtn, sure a week's way too short a time. I generally measure returns by year or YTD, not by week.

My point was more to highlight the costs of using etoro and FX risk. Something I've just learned.

tikunetih
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Re: ARK Invest

#380255

Postby tikunetih » January 24th, 2021, 1:13 pm

"Bought ARKx. Got the T Shirt"

https://dasnooze.bigcartel.com/category ... collection


NB per the site's menu, merchandise for several other fanbases available.


"Move along. No signs of enthusiasm here."

JamesMuenchen
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Re: ARK Invest

#381374

Postby JamesMuenchen » January 27th, 2021, 9:39 pm

ARK have just published their 2021 Big Ideas reports.
https://ark-invest.com/big-ideas-2021

JamesMuenchen
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Re: ARK Invest

#385070

Postby JamesMuenchen » February 9th, 2021, 1:12 pm

Came upon this today:

https://github.com/ARKInvest

Ark have open-sourced their valuation models for Tesla, Netflix and Square.

ReallyVeryFoolish
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Re: ARK Invest

#393252

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » March 7th, 2021, 9:03 am

ARKK seems to have suffered rather badly the last couple of months in the tech stocks shake out? Similar story to SMT?

RVF

doug2500
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Re: ARK Invest

#393291

Postby doug2500 » March 7th, 2021, 11:08 am

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:ARKK seems to have suffered rather badly the last couple of months in the tech stocks shake out? Similar story to SMT?

RVF


Worse IMO because SMT will never be forced sellers or face liquidity problems.

They may have their similarities but I'd be happy to own one 'for ever' but wouldn't touch the other myself.

ReallyVeryFoolish
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Re: ARK Invest

#393299

Postby ReallyVeryFoolish » March 7th, 2021, 11:50 am

doug2500 wrote:
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:ARKK seems to have suffered rather badly the last couple of months in the tech stocks shake out? Similar story to SMT?

RVF


Worse IMO because SMT will never be forced sellers or face liquidity problems.

They may have their similarities but I'd be happy to own one 'for ever' but wouldn't touch the other myself.

Quite agree, yes.

RVF

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Re: ARK Invest

#393328

Postby Lootman » March 7th, 2021, 1:12 pm

ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:ARKK seems to have suffered rather badly the last couple of months in the tech stocks shake out? Similar story to SMT?

I see them as quite similar. Both have value because they buy the kind of story stocks that UK investors might otherwise shy away from, due to their lack of dividends and sky-high P/E ratios.

The difficulty that Lemons may have had buying ARKK these last couple of months has probably saved them a lot of money. It peaked at $160 in mid-February and hit a low of $106 on Friday, before recovering to $117 at the close.

I'd expect SMT to enjoy that bounce tomorrow. From there, who knows? If I were starting positions in either I would feather in and buy on dips. Or in the case of ARKK use options to define one's risk.

TheMotorcycleBoy
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Re: ARK Invest

#393379

Postby TheMotorcycleBoy » March 7th, 2021, 4:37 pm

All I know about them is that their CEO (Cathie Wood) does some interesting talks and seems full of energy and ideas. Which is probably a good thing.

Matt

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Re: ARK Invest

#403413

Postby vagrantbrain » April 11th, 2021, 2:28 pm

I've seen a lot of people on various forums and social media shilling for "queen Cathy" recently which got me curious about Ark. After a bit of research I now wouldn't touch any of their funds with a bargepole!

Both the company and it's followers resemble a personality cult IMO. She has a less than stellar track record in the industry prior to going out on her own and seems to have hit it lucky with a massive bet on Tesla over the last couple of years combined with aggressively daytrading the portfolio holdings. Most concerning to me was that she is the sole investment manager, they have no risk management dept and the rest of her team are very inexperienced in financial services, instead choosing to employ people with academic/technical expertise. On the face of it not a bad move, however these are almost all young graduates with little work experience who quickly move on resulting in a massive staff turnover - average tenure of less than 18 months with the current longest serving employee being there less than 3 years. Reminds me of Theranos to a degree: the strong leader who is going to revolutionise an industry combined with a revolving door of inexperienced staff and keeping people with actual industry expertise away from the product.

Their recent research supporting their price target of $3,000 for tesla is an absolute joke. Others have dismantled it better than I could (http://www.twitter.com/ChrisBloomstran/ ... 3491719169) but some of the assumptions are ridiculous - e.g. assuming that almost every Tesla customer from today will buy their insurance from tesla at 2x the cost of other providers, and the regulators will allow tesla to achieve profit margins 3x the industry average simply because they're Tesla?! Conveniently forgetting that they don't even offer insurance in the first place...

I think she's got some good ideas, done well in the tech bull market for the last couple of years and will probably have another couple of good years, but it reeks of hype to me and I see it all ending in tears.

https://markets.businessinsider.com/new ... 1030269708

https://www.morningstar.com/etfs/arcx/arkk/quote


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