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The vaccine

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Lootman
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Re: The vaccine

#376726

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 7:10 pm

dealtn wrote:
dealtn wrote:I think the vaccine numbers will commence their "daily update" from tomorrow.


3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.

If that 3.1 million is correct then that is better than the US, which was at 2.7 million last time I looked. Given the US has six times the population they are well behind.

A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.

staffordian
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Re: The vaccine

#376733

Postby staffordian » January 13th, 2021, 7:24 pm

Lootman wrote:A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.


Without wishing to turn this into an anti USA post, or derail the thread, isn't it generally the case that many in the USA are to all intents and purposes unaware of anything which happens outwith their borders?

So perhaps this is not so much how it sees the UK, more a case of how they see all of the rest of the world beyond the 50 states?

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Re: The vaccine

#376746

Postby Mike4 » January 13th, 2021, 8:25 pm

dealtn wrote:
dealtn wrote:I think the vaccine numbers will commence their "daily update" from tomorrow.


3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.


Do you have a reference for that please?

I've tried googling and can't find any reference to the govt stats on this!

Many thanks

dealtn
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Re: The vaccine

#376747

Postby dealtn » January 13th, 2021, 8:28 pm

Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
dealtn wrote:I think the vaccine numbers will commence their "daily update" from tomorrow.


3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.


Do you have a reference for that please?

I've tried googling and can't find any reference to the govt stats on this!

Many thanks



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431

Not sure of the actual source, but I know it should be on the ONS coronavirus statistics daily now.

Mike4
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Re: The vaccine

#376751

Postby Mike4 » January 13th, 2021, 8:40 pm

dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.


Do you have a reference for that please?

I've tried googling and can't find any reference to the govt stats on this!

Many thanks



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431

Not sure of the actual source, but I know it should be on the ONS coronavirus statistics daily now.


Thanks.

From your link, 2,639,309 first doses administered. 428,232 second doses administered.

Given govt policy to delay 2nd dose for 12 weeks I'm surprised by that second figure. Looks like not all them in the doctoring trade is 'avin' it!

Itsallaguess
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Re: The vaccine

#376753

Postby Itsallaguess » January 13th, 2021, 8:42 pm

dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
dealtn wrote:
3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.


Do you have a reference for that please?

I've tried googling and can't find any reference to the govt stats on this!

Many thanks



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431

Not sure of the actual source, but I know it should be on the ONS coronavirus statistics daily now.


I'm not convinced yet of the 3.1 million doses total, but I think it might be an issue with the clarity in terminology....

If we look at both of these sources, which match, they use similar phrasing and the same figures -

Image

The first image is from the BBC page linked earlier (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431), with the second set of figures coming from the Government 'Healthcare' dashboard itself (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare)

However, if we go and look at the daily vaccine update site (https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/), we can see that in the Jan 13th Excel spreadsheet linked at the bottom of that page, are these figures -

Image

Now those figures seem to be quite closely aligned with the first sets of figures at a headline level, apart from the fact that the largest number is described as 'First dose' in the earlier links, but as a cumulative-total in the second, and I also think the particular use of the phrase 'of which' in the final set of Excel daily-update data might be important here, but it's not clear at this stage if it's important because it's correct, or, given what seems to be a contradiction with the other Government dashboard, whether it's important because it's not...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

dealtn
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Re: The vaccine

#376757

Postby dealtn » January 13th, 2021, 8:50 pm

Itsallaguess wrote:
dealtn wrote:
Mike4 wrote:


Do you have a reference for that please?

I've tried googling and can't find any reference to the govt stats on this!

Many thanks



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431

Not sure of the actual source, but I know it should be on the ONS coronavirus statistics daily now.


I'm not convinced yet of the 3.1 million doses total, but I think it might be an issue with the clarity in terminology....

If we look at both of these sources, which match, they use similar phrasing and the same figures -

Image

The first image is from the BBC page linked earlier (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431), with the second set of figures coming from the Government 'Healthcare' dashboard itself (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare)

However, if we go and look at the daily vaccine update site (https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/), we can see that in the Jan 13th Excel spreadsheet linked at the bottom of that page, are these figures -

Image

Now those figures seem to be quite closely aligned with the first sets of figures at a headline level, apart from the fact that the largest number is described as 'First dose' in the earlier links, but as a cumulative-total in the second, and I also think the particular use of the phrase 'of which' in the final set of Excel daily-update data might be important here, but it's not clear at this stage if it's important because it's correct, or, given what seems to be a contradiction with the other Government dashboard, whether it's important because it's not...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


You are using UK data in one source and England in the other I think.

Itsallaguess
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Re: The vaccine

#376763

Postby Itsallaguess » January 13th, 2021, 8:56 pm

dealtn wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:
dealtn wrote:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431

Not sure of the actual source, but I know it should be on the ONS coronavirus statistics daily now.


I'm not convinced yet of the 3.1 million doses total, but I think it might be an issue with the clarity in terminology....

If we look at both of these sources, which match, they use similar phrasing and the same figures -

Image

The first image is from the BBC page linked earlier (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-55652431), with the second set of figures coming from the Government 'Healthcare' dashboard itself (https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/details/healthcare)

However, if we go and look at the daily vaccine update site (https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/s ... cinations/), we can see that in the Jan 13th Excel spreadsheet linked at the bottom of that page, are these figures -

Image

Now those figures seem to be quite closely aligned with the first sets of figures at a headline level, apart from the fact that the largest number is described as 'First dose' in the earlier links, but as a cumulative-total in the second, and I also think the particular use of the phrase 'of which' in the final set of Excel daily-update data might be important here, but it's not clear at this stage if it's important because it's correct, or, given what seems to be a contradiction with the other Government dashboard, whether it's important because it's not...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


You are using UK data in one source and England in the other I think.


Yes, you're quite right. Thanks for pointing that out.

Quite impressive numbers then really, at both an England and a UK level.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

gryffron
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Re: The vaccine

#376765

Postby gryffron » January 13th, 2021, 9:07 pm

Lootman wrote:A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.

Pretty sure the US has not authorised our vaccine. Nor indeed any "foreign" vaccine. You can be sure the big pharma reps are bribing/lobbying their government hard to ensure no nasty cheap foreign vaccines receive approval.

Gryff

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Re: The vaccine

#376768

Postby Bouleversee » January 13th, 2021, 9:22 pm

This morning I received a letter posted 1st class telling me that my appt. for the 2nd jab had been cancelled and that I'd get another appt. towards the end of the 12 week period. "Don't ring us etc." I just hope there is enough of the Pfizer vaccine left to give everyone who has had it for their first jab the same thing for their second. I don't know why they don't send emails which would save them a fortune.

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Re: The vaccine

#376770

Postby Bouleversee » January 13th, 2021, 9:25 pm

Lootman wrote:
dealtn wrote:
dealtn wrote:I think the vaccine numbers will commence their "daily update" from tomorrow.


3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.

If that 3.1 million is correct then that is better than the US, which was at 2.7 million last time I looked. Given the US has six times the population they are well behind.

A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.



A US friend who is older than I am has not yet received her first jab. She lives in California.

redsturgeon
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Re: The vaccine

#376773

Postby redsturgeon » January 13th, 2021, 9:31 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
Lootman wrote:
dealtn wrote:
3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.

If that 3.1 million is correct then that is better than the US, which was at 2.7 million last time I looked. Given the US has six times the population they are well behind.

A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.



A US friend who is older than I am has not yet received her first jab. She lives in California.


Strangely enough this is one of those ways in which the UK's centralised NHS has advantages over the federal system and privatised healthcare in the US.

John

Lootman
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Re: The vaccine

#376777

Postby Lootman » January 13th, 2021, 9:36 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
Lootman wrote:
dealtn wrote:3.1 million doses so far, lets hope it continues at that (rising) pace. Does seem that some of the worst fears of the doubters on how effectively we could roll this out aren't being observed.

If that 3.1 million is correct then that is better than the US, which was at 2.7 million last time I looked. Given the US has six times the population they are well behind.

A revealing US newspaper comment I read talked about there being two main vaccines, Pfizer and Moderna. And in addition England, Russia and China have developed their own. Made us sound like a third world country in their eyes.

A US friend who is older than I am has not yet received her first jab. She lives in California.

Based upon my first-hand experience of being in CA right now, the problem seems to be that the Feds divvy up the vaccines between the 50 states, who then divvy it up between the counties, of which there are 58 in California.

The county health authorities are not well funded and staffed, and this has created a much greater workload for them. Also the criteria for vaccine delivery depends on priorities that are based on the CDC guidelines, but may also vary from them locally for political reasons.

Finally, there is no centralised database of potential recipients in the sense that the NHS has, as healthcare in the US is very fragmented.

So for example in one county I saw, they told everyone over age 70 to show up at a vast parking lot somewhere with proof of their age. And then they would be vaccinated without any list to work off.

It is a bit of a mess to be honest, although will improve over time, I feel sure. Same with testing - after a rocky start I was able to have a free test at 24 hours notice without getting out of my car. Negative.

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Re: The vaccine

#376844

Postby Itsallaguess » January 14th, 2021, 6:22 am

Some interesting and innovative news here regarding a potential increase in vaccinations by using a narrower needle for vaccine administration -

Using a narrow needle to administer coronavirus jabs significantly boosts supply of the vaccine, officials have announced.

Drawing the liquid drug out of a vial using a syringe with less "dead space" increases the number of doses available by up to 20 per cent, according to Public Health England.

Dr Mary Ramsay, the organisation's head of immunisations, said staff had been able to get at least one more dose out of vials for both the Pfizer and AstraZeneca jabs.

However, she said the additional capacity had not been factored into the national rollout plans, suggesting the forecast deliveries of jabs could immunise more people than planned.

The Medicines and Healthcare products Regulatory Agency, which approved the two vaccines, was reportedly consulted on the issue and has "raised no objections".


https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2021/01/13/using-narrow-needle-covid-vaccines-boosts-supplies-20pc/

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: The vaccine

#376916

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 14th, 2021, 10:14 am

Itsallaguess wrote:Some interesting and innovative news here regarding a potential increase in vaccinations by using a narrower needle for vaccine administration -

Sounds suspiciously like more thinking along the lines of the completely-untested 12-week gap that the rest of the world (and it seems doctors here) seem to regard as a Trump-like solution.

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Re: The vaccine

#376921

Postby redsturgeon » January 14th, 2021, 10:22 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:Some interesting and innovative news here regarding a potential increase in vaccinations by using a narrower needle for vaccine administration -

Sounds suspiciously like more thinking along the lines of the completely-untested 12-week gap that the rest of the world (and it seems doctors here) seem to regard as a Trump-like solution.


No this is just very sensible practical advice. The smaller needle/syringe means less wasted vaccine left in the used syringe after each dose.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/extra ... 19-vaccine

EMA advice but the same principle applies.

John

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Re: The vaccine

#376946

Postby Mike4 » January 14th, 2021, 10:51 am

redsturgeon wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:Some interesting and innovative news here regarding a potential increase in vaccinations by using a narrower needle for vaccine administration -

Sounds suspiciously like more thinking along the lines of the completely-untested 12-week gap that the rest of the world (and it seems doctors here) seem to regard as a Trump-like solution.


No this is just very sensible practical advice. The smaller needle/syringe means less wasted vaccine left in the used syringe after each dose.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/extra ... 19-vaccine

EMA advice but the same principle applies.

John


Your link is all about a COVID-19 vaccine called "Comirnaty". I've never heard of this! Is it another name for a vaccine we have already discussed on this board or has the EMA slipped one through with nobody noticing?

UncleEbenezer
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Re: The vaccine

#376953

Postby UncleEbenezer » January 14th, 2021, 10:59 am

redsturgeon wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:
Itsallaguess wrote:Some interesting and innovative news here regarding a potential increase in vaccinations by using a narrower needle for vaccine administration -

Sounds suspiciously like more thinking along the lines of the completely-untested 12-week gap that the rest of the world (and it seems doctors here) seem to regard as a Trump-like solution.


No this is just very sensible practical advice. The smaller needle/syringe means less wasted vaccine left in the used syringe after each dose.


I'm surprised that "normal" syringe design was so wasteful! It would seem such an obvious thing to have optimised in the early days of the NHS, if not before.

Does that imply the vaccine itself is shipped in a big barrel or keg from which doses are drawn? So what's the role of those glass vials that some reports suggest have been a supply bottleneck?

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Re: The vaccine

#376957

Postby swill453 » January 14th, 2021, 11:02 am

UncleEbenezer wrote:Does that imply the vaccine itself is shipped in a big barrel or keg from which doses are drawn? So what's the role of those glass vials that some reports suggest have been a supply bottleneck?

The report I listened to said the different syringe got something like 6 doses from a vial while the original one only got 5.

Scott.

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Re: The vaccine

#376960

Postby redsturgeon » January 14th, 2021, 11:03 am

Mike4 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
UncleEbenezer wrote:Sounds suspiciously like more thinking along the lines of the completely-untested 12-week gap that the rest of the world (and it seems doctors here) seem to regard as a Trump-like solution.


No this is just very sensible practical advice. The smaller needle/syringe means less wasted vaccine left in the used syringe after each dose.

https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/extra ... 19-vaccine

EMA advice but the same principle applies.

John


Your link is all about a COVID-19 vaccine called "Comirnaty". I've never heard of this! Is it another name for a vaccine we have already discussed on this board or has the EMA slipped one through with nobody noticing?


It is the Pfizer Biontec vaccine.

John


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