Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to eyeball08,Wondergirly,bofh,johnstevens77,Bhoddhisatva, for Donating to support the site

Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461458

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 8:42 pm

According to the guardian (reporting the government's latest figures)...

Today vs Last Week...

Infection DOWN 1,374
In hospital DOWN 477
Deaths DOWN 19

And cases are still lower now than they were after rising steeply while face masks were mandatory, before falling almost as steeply after they become optional in July.

Even the government's advisors say that the new variant isn't their primary concern, the existing delta variant is, and the numbers show that is stable. And even scientists say that if _everyone_ caught covid at the same time, now it wouldn't lead to that high a number of hospital admissions.

And yet Boris now announces that we are returning to mandatory face masks in shops - you know, going back to like how it was back in July when cases were rising sharply.

This government is just playing politics and I'm getting absolutely sick and tired of it.

Enough is bleeping well enough.

I know this isn't everyone's view, and if any of you want to flippin well keep wearing your flipping face masks then you flippin well do so..

But I'm absolutely sick and tired of this flippin government telling me how to dress. Absolutely sick of it.

Moderator Message:
Please moderate your tone or your posts will be deleted

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2342
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 566 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461461

Postby MrFoolish » November 27th, 2021, 9:08 pm

According to:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

cases are up 8.6% on the week.

I'm not sure about face masks. One minute they tell you they are useful, the next I hear cheap masks are ineffective.

monabri
Lemon Half
Posts: 8418
Joined: January 7th, 2017, 9:56 am
Has thanked: 1548 times
Been thanked: 3439 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461463

Postby monabri » November 27th, 2021, 9:17 pm

Cases up by 8%....tests carried out up by 7 %. They need to normalise the data!

Spet0789
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1931
Joined: June 21st, 2017, 12:02 am
Has thanked: 248 times
Been thanked: 955 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461464

Postby Spet0789 » November 27th, 2021, 9:19 pm

Moderator Message:
Text deleted, playing the man
Wearing a face mask is no hardship. They do reduce transmission. There’s a lot of evidence for that.

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461469

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 9:33 pm

Moderator Message:
Content removed breaking site rules

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2300
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1894 times
Been thanked: 870 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461470

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2021, 9:34 pm

Wear a face mask now or face a lock down later.

No brainer IMHO. Given that the government have a history of reacting too late during this epidemic, I'm very happy to see them go for a minor inconvenience now, regardless of how the Omicron eventually plays out.

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461471

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 9:38 pm

MrFoolish wrote:According to:

https://coronavirus.data.gov.uk/

cases are up 8.6% on the week.

I'm not sure about face masks. One minute they tell you they are useful, the next I hear cheap masks are ineffective.


The gov website (aiui) uses a rolling 7 day average... I believe (please correct me if I've wrong) that the guardian is using the same underlying data, but looking at individual day's data vs the same day from the prior week...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk

I presume the guardian do that so that changes in direction become apparent sooner, and aren't delayed by the trailing average, but use the 7 days window to avoid the day-of-the-week variations due to reporting and other factors that creep into the numbers.

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2300
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1894 times
Been thanked: 870 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461472

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2021, 9:39 pm

Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?

AsleepInYorkshire
Lemon Half
Posts: 7383
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 10514 times
Been thanked: 4659 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461476

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » November 27th, 2021, 9:53 pm

staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?

The OP has used such language though. I hasten to add I too feel it's excessive.

Still we are all allowed to make our choices in life. We should accept the responsibility for those choices.

If I am informed by Government to wear a mask I will. It's no hardship at all.

I'm off to take the lid off a tin of green paint and watch it dry.

AiY

MrFoolish
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2342
Joined: March 22nd, 2020, 7:27 pm
Has thanked: 566 times
Been thanked: 1148 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461477

Postby MrFoolish » November 27th, 2021, 9:58 pm

staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?


Language aside, I thought onthemove made a good point by asking those who are very pro-mask whether they would wear one at home.

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461479

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 10:00 pm

staffordian wrote:Wear a face mask now or face a lock down later.

No brainer IMHO. Given that the government have a history of reacting too late during this epidemic, I'm very happy to see them go for a minor inconvenience now, regardless of how the Omicron eventually plays out.


Utter nonsense. People are just getting too swept up with covid hysteria. Why do you declare that it's a binary choice between face mask now or lockdown later? What are you basing that on? This is why I say people are just getting swept up in the hysteria, because they are just coming out with such black and white statements, but don't seem to provide any rationale for how they arrive at it. But they just present their statements, as per above, as though they are a given.

There's no reason to presume that there would have been a lockdown later.

As I've already pointed out, cases are still lower than at the point that the mandatory mask wearing was scrapped back in July... back then all the pro mask wearers were telling us that cases would sky rocket when masks became optional, and they were demanding that they must remain mandatory ...

... back then, the government ignored them and in reality the very opposite happened ... cases starting falling back down at quite a rate.

Cases have largely gone sideways the past few months, and that's with most people largely back to normal.

And even if the virus just let rip and everyone caught it, even scientists accept that the risks aren't high...

"England would only suffer 35,000 Covid hospital admissions if EVERYONE caught virus right now because of previous immunity and jabs, study suggests
London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine researchers estimated the remaining hospitalisation toll
They say England would suffer another 35,000 admissions if everyone came into contact with the virus
It was the lowest rate of hospitalisation in Europe because of immunity from prior infection and boosters
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... gests.html "


And to be quite honest, with the delta variant still the main strain in the UK, there might actually be benefit from more of us catching this variant - for which the vaccines are known to give us a reasonable degree of protection from hospitalisation or death.

It's well known that the vaccines only teach the immune system to recognise the spike protein, and it's known that this new variant has many mutations in that area and the worry is that this means it will evade the existing vaccines.

It's also known that catching the virus allows your immune system to learn to attack more of the virus - ie the non-spike protein part - thereby helping protect against new strains - like this new strain that's just been detected from South Africa - that potentially has altered its spike protein quite substantially.

You never know, perhaps that's actually the government's idea...

They saw that removing the mandatory mask wearing caused cases to fall back in July...

... perhaps they are hoping that by re-introducing mandatory mask wearing, cases of the delta variant will actually increase thereby giving more people more broad immunity in preparation for the omicron variant becoming established.

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7181
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1658 times
Been thanked: 3817 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461480

Postby Mike4 » November 27th, 2021, 10:04 pm

Image

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461481

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 10:10 pm

staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?


Yes, because it expresses how p*ss*d off I am starting to get with being nannied by the state, and those zombies acting as the state's drones without question.

I really object to people telling me that it's no hardship to wear a face mask.

Why the hell can't they just speak for themselves instead of trying to tell others that it's no hardship for them.

I'll be the judge of whether or not it's a hardship for me.

And I'm getting sick of being told either by the government or by other people, whether on these boards or anywhere else, that it isn't a hardship.

Someone on these boards commented the other day something along the lines... "Hey, we're only asking people to wear masks, not work from home"

Well, you know what, I AM working from home still. I haven't worked in the office for just under 2 yrs now.

Why can't we each do our bit each in our own way? I'm getting sick of this one size fits all nanny state.

AsleepInYorkshire
Lemon Half
Posts: 7383
Joined: February 7th, 2017, 9:36 pm
Has thanked: 10514 times
Been thanked: 4659 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461483

Postby AsleepInYorkshire » November 27th, 2021, 10:18 pm

onthemove wrote:
staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?


Yes, because it expresses how p*ss*d off I am starting to get with being nannied by the state, and those zombies acting as the state's drones without question.

I really object to people telling me that it's no hardship to wear a face mask.

Why the hell can't they just speak for themselves instead of trying to tell others that it's no hardship for them.

I'll be the judge of whether or not it's a hardship for me.

And I'm getting sick of being told either by the government or by other people, whether on these boards or anywhere else, that it isn't a hardship.

Someone on these boards commented the other day something along the lines... "Hey, we're only asking people to wear masks, not work from home"

Well, you know what, I AM working from home still. I haven't worked in the office for just under 2 yrs now.

Why can't we each do our bit each in our own way? I'm getting sick of this one size fits all nanny state.

I'm getting sick too ;)

AiY

servodude
Lemon Half
Posts: 8372
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:56 am
Has thanked: 4471 times
Been thanked: 3601 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461484

Postby servodude » November 27th, 2021, 10:19 pm

onthemove wrote:
staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?


Why can't we each do our bit each in our own way? I'm getting sick of this one size fits all nanny state.


You're obviously doing your bit your own way
We can see that from here

-sd

onthemove
Lemon Slice
Posts: 540
Joined: June 24th, 2017, 4:03 pm
Has thanked: 722 times
Been thanked: 471 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461485

Postby onthemove » November 27th, 2021, 10:24 pm

Spet0789 wrote:Wearing a face mask is no hardship.


Yes it is.

Spet0789 wrote:They do reduce transmission. There’s a lot of evidence for that.


True...

But there's evidence that most transmission is occurring in families, and evidence is that wearing a mask at home helps to reduce that transmission.

"Wearing face masks at home might help ward off COVID-19 spread among family members
79% effective at curbing transmission--but only before symptoms emerge"
"The figures in China suggest that most of the person to person transmission of SARS-CoV-2, the coronavirus responsible for COVID-19 infection, has occurred in families. "
https://www.bmj.com/company/newsroom/we ... y-members/


How many of the pro-mask wearers who are telling me that it's not a hardship and that it's backed up by science, are themselves wearing their mask at home to protect their families?

Yet there you have the evidence reported in the BMJ that most transmission is happening at home, and that wearing a mask at home can reduce such transmission by 79%

So why aren't all the pro mask wearers - those telling us that it isn't a hardship - why aren't they promoting the message to wear a mask at home and leading by example?

Can;t you see why we get fed up of being told, it works, it's the science and that it's apparently no hardship...

.. well if that's the case, why aren't those same people promoting wearing masks at home? Surely the same arguments apply ... it's no hardship, it does reduce transmission and there is evidence backing it up.

Or is it that arguments like "It's no hardship, it does reduce transmission, and is backed by evidence" are only valid arguments when a pro-masker wants them to be?

UncleEbenezer
The full Lemon
Posts: 10783
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:17 pm
Has thanked: 1470 times
Been thanked: 2993 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461488

Postby UncleEbenezer » November 27th, 2021, 10:33 pm

When I went for my booster jab this morning, there was a used facemask blowing around outside the surgery.

When I went on a long train journey, there were lots of people with masks. But hardly any wore the masks most of the time: they put them down in places like the tables.

That seems to me an obvious explanation of why masks, even among those for whom they don't cause difficulties, are so strongly correlated with rising infection rates. Any of those masks whose wearers were infected become a great vector for spreading germs.

Funny that I predicted that before we even had the data. Here's from just before they became mandatory in July 2020:
Regarding facemasks, I’m going to stick my neck out with another contrarian prediction. As from late July they’re the law in shops. By the end of August, this will have lead to a rise in the coronavirus spread rate. The overall numbers may (or may not) still be declining, but the rate of decline will at least be reduced.

Why? Well, here are a few reasons:

* Make it harder to breathe, and people will breathe harder. Including those with germs. Not to mention breathing hard is the last thing I want to do if someone in the seat behind me has a lurgy and I can’t move!
* The school tie problem. As you reach your teens and rebel against some of the sillier rules imposed on you – like school uniforms – you also realise that a tie worn sufficiently badly is worse than no tie at all. It becomes a protest!
* I’ve already seen face masks discarded to ensure maximum spread of infection, like in a supermarket trolley in the row outside the shop.


Infection rates did indeed rise, through eventually to a winter peak. Then fell, and rose again dramatically into the summer, with a sharp peak in July when the idiotic law was finally dropped and the covid rate also dropped sharply.

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2300
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1894 times
Been thanked: 870 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461489

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2021, 10:34 pm

onthemove wrote:
staffordian wrote:Wear a face mask now or face a lock down later.

No brainer IMHO. Given that the government have a history of reacting too late during this epidemic, I'm very happy to see them go for a minor inconvenience now, regardless of how the Omicron eventually plays out.


Utter nonsense. People are just getting too swept up with covid hysteria. Why do you declare that it's a binary choice between face mask now or lockdown later? What are you basing that on? This is why I say people are just getting swept up in the hysteria, because they are just coming out with such black and white statements, but don't seem to provide any rationale for how they arrive at it. But they just present their statements, as per above, as though they are a given.

There's no reason to presume that there would have been a lockdown later.


I didn't present it as a binary choice.

I said regardless of how it plays out.

My point was that in my opinion (ok, I realise it's not yours) wearing a mask in a shop or on public transport is far less intrusive than a lockdown. So even if the Omicron variant turns out to be the damp squib we all hope it will, the act of wearing a mask in very limited situations as insurance against that not being the case is a small price to pay.

And if you are unable to wear a mask, don't exemptions apply?

staffordian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2300
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 4:20 pm
Has thanked: 1894 times
Been thanked: 870 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461490

Postby staffordian » November 27th, 2021, 10:37 pm

AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?

The OP has used such language though. I hasten to add I too feel it's excessive.

Still we are all allowed to make our choices in life. We should accept the responsibility for those choices.

If I am informed by Government to wear a mask I will. It's no hardship at all.

I'm off to take the lid off a tin of green paint and watch it dry.

AiY


It was the OP I intended to ask, sorry that it was unclear.

Think I'll apply my paint to something before watching it dry. Perhaps an old mask?

Mike4
Lemon Half
Posts: 7181
Joined: November 24th, 2016, 3:29 am
Has thanked: 1658 times
Been thanked: 3817 times

Re: Face Masks - Getting Ridiculous

#461495

Postby Mike4 » November 27th, 2021, 11:12 pm

staffordian wrote:
AsleepInYorkshire wrote:
staffordian wrote:Do you need to use such aggressive and emotive language to get a point across?

The OP has used such language though. I hasten to add I too feel it's excessive.

Still we are all allowed to make our choices in life. We should accept the responsibility for those choices.

If I am informed by Government to wear a mask I will. It's no hardship at all.

I'm off to take the lid off a tin of green paint and watch it dry.

AiY


It was the OP I intended to ask, sorry that it was unclear.

Think I'll apply my paint to something before watching it dry. Perhaps an old mask?



On another forum I frequent, there has just been a long and bad tempered debate about whether a zinc anti-corrosion product applied with a paint brush is 'paint', or 'definitely not paint'.

Jeez, this internet thing.


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests