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Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#472947

Postby Bouleversee » January 14th, 2022, 12:28 am

sd said: " Checking the list of conditions again there is this catch all:
list of condtions wrote:
a condition or treatment that makes you more likely to get infections
- perhaps that is meant to include chronic pulmonary conditions?
- sd "

I don't think so. I think that means people who are immuno-suppressed.
I think we are owed an explanation as to why, having lived like hermits for 2 years because we were told we were ciinically extremely vulnerable to 'Covid infection, suddenly we are not even mentioned in the context of Covid. I know someone with late stage kidney disease who has been on dialysis for quite a long time who didn't receive the letter either and that is on the eligible list. There was nothing about the change of symptoms in the NHS letter or on their website last time I looked.

Is it possible to tell if you had Covid several weeks ago if you had both jabs and the booster? My sister who has MS is seriously ill in hospital and they don't seem to know what is wrong with her. She is very confused and delirious. Makes me wonder if she picked up the bug from one of the carers who visited daily but no one recognised the symptoms at the time. Her symptoms are remarkably like encephalitis. Could be why MS is on that eligible list. Sadly, I am not in a position to ask any questions.

Sorcery
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#472949

Postby Sorcery » January 14th, 2022, 12:35 am

Hallucigenia wrote:Looks like the tighter restrictions in the Celtic nations have had some effect :
Image


Well I think I have seen statistics for the opposite especially December 2021. Anyway the actions of the retards Sturgeon and Drakeford have done much to make England look an attractive/desirable future home to the people living in Scotland and Wales.

https://unherd.com/thepost/only-the-tre ... drakeford/

servodude
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#472951

Postby servodude » January 14th, 2022, 12:49 am

Bouleversee wrote:sd said: " Checking the list of conditions again there is this catch all:
list of condtions wrote:
a condition or treatment that makes you more likely to get infections
- perhaps that is meant to include chronic pulmonary conditions?
- sd "

I don't think so. I think that means people who are immuno-suppressed.
I think we are owed an explanation as to why, having lived like hermits for 2 years because we were told we were ciinically extremely vulnerable to 'Covid infection, suddenly we are not even mentioned in the context of Covid. I know someone with late stage kidney disease who has been on dialysis for quite a long time who didn't receive the letter either and that is on the eligible list. There was nothing about the change of symptoms in the NHS letter or on their website last time I looked.

Is it possible to tell if you had Covid several weeks ago if you had both jabs and the booster? My sister who has MS is seriously ill in hospital and they don't seem to know what is wrong with her. She is very confused and delirious. Makes me wonder if she picked up the bug from one of the carers who visited daily but no one recognised the symptoms at the time. Her symptoms are remarkably like encephalitis. Could be why MS is on that eligible list. Sadly, I am not in a position to ask any questions.


Really sorry to hear about your sister - it's a horrid and very stressful time for anyone to be ill (and its a sad truth that communiction with family of a patient is lower on the priority list than it should be)

The test for past infection will (I believe) pick up antibodies from vaccination - so there would be no absolute way to know if there has been a recent infection (it could be inferred from levels but it would be a very imprecise guess)

If I were you I would try and contact your GPs surgery and see if they can advise you as to why things have been layed out as they are. They should be able to help explain what appears to be a genuinely confusing situation and allay your worries (or confirm your fears... but at least then you'll know)
I'd suggest looking at NHS 111 but I've just tried to do so myself and it's a kafka-esque nightmare

Best wishes
-sd

Julian
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#472952

Postby Julian » January 14th, 2022, 12:58 am

Bouleversee wrote:
I think we are owed an explanation as to why, having lived like hermits for 2 years because we were told we were ciinically extremely vulnerable to 'Covid infection, suddenly we are not even mentioned in the context of Covid ...

I agree and I am also somewhat baffled by the absence of conditions like COPD and IPF from the list. For a disease like Covid-19 that in severe cases can attack the lungs then as a lay person I would have thought that already having compromised lung function would put people with such conditions squarely onto the list of people who should have access to these treatments.

Might it be worth contacting someone like the British Lung Foundation? Maybe they have contacts with Public Health England or other appropriate contacts and might be better positioned to get an official answer as to why various lung diseases aren’t on the list. It seems a pretty straightforward question that deserves a straightforward answer from someone with the clinical expertise to answer it. Or it might turn out that it was a simple (but if so startlingly incompetent) oversight.

- Julian

9873210
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#472955

Postby 9873210 » January 14th, 2022, 1:27 am

servodude wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:
Is it possible to tell if you had Covid several weeks ago if you had both jabs and the booster?


The test for past infection will (I believe) pick up antibodies from vaccination - so there would be no absolute way to know if there has been a recent infection (it could be inferred from levels but it would be a very imprecise guess)

It is possible to distinguish between vaccination and infection. This has been done for research purposes, I don't know if it would be available for clinical purposes or idle curiosity.

The virus contains several different proteins. The vaccine only generates (part of) the single spike protein. Vaccination will generate less diverse antibodies. Assaying antibodies to non-spike proteins can distinguish between infection and vaccination.

Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473059

Postby Bouleversee » January 14th, 2022, 12:44 pm

servodude wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:sd said: " Checking the list of conditions again there is this catch all:
list of condtions wrote:
a condition or treatment that makes you more likely to get infections
- perhaps that is meant to include chronic pulmonary conditions?
- sd "

I don't think so. I think that means people who are immuno-suppressed.
I think we are owed an explanation as to why, having lived like hermits for 2 years because we were told we were ciinically extremely vulnerable to 'Covid infection, suddenly we are not even mentioned in the context of Covid. I know someone with late stage kidney disease who has been on dialysis for quite a long time who didn't receive the letter either and that is on the eligible list. There was nothing about the change of symptoms in the NHS letter or on their website last time I looked.

Is it possible to tell if you had Covid several weeks ago if you had both jabs and the booster? My sister who has MS is seriously ill in hospital and they don't seem to know what is wrong with her. She is very confused and delirious. Makes me wonder if she picked up the bug from one of the carers who visited daily but no one recognised the symptoms at the time. Her symptoms are remarkably like encephalitis. Could be why MS is on that eligible list. Sadly, I am not in a position to ask any questions.


Really sorry to hear about your sister - it's a horrid and very stressful time for anyone to be ill (and its a sad truth that communiction with family of a patient is lower on the priority list than it should be)

The test for past infection will (I believe) pick up antibodies from vaccination - so there would be no absolute way to know if there has been a recent infection (it could be inferred from levels but it would be a very imprecise guess)

If I were you I would try and contact your GPs surgery and see if they can advise you as to why things have been layed out as they are. They should be able to help explain what appears to be a genuinely confusing situation and allay your worries (or confirm your fears... but at least then you'll know)
I'd suggest looking at NHS 111 but I've just tried to do so myself and it's a kafka-esque nightmare

Best wishes
-sd


I did contact my GP practice on Jan 10 (said they hadn't been informed about it, then rang back a few days later and referred me to the NHS link I posted here), I left phone and email messages for my Nurse Specialist and Consultant's secy. (no response), BLF (didn't know but said they would find out and then said the treatment was being offered "to people at highest risk of getting seriously ill" and referred me to the NHS link, APF (said they would find out but eventual response said "The antivirals are approved only for people with suppressed immune systems, which includes people who have had a solid organ transplant and take anti-rejection drugs, people with blood cancer, people on chemotherapy and people with other diseases requiring immune-suppression therapy. IPF and antifibrotics does adversely affect the immune system. IPF patients thus produce antibodies to Covid once vaccinated and are protected. " Perhaps it's just me being thick but the last 2 sentences didn't make a lot of sense to me which is why I posted on here in the hope of clarifying as many of you are well informed. I also tried 119 on Jan. 10 but there was no relevant option to click on and I just went round in circles. As you say, Kafka-esque. I think we have all wasted enough time on this and I need to start my tax return.

As regards my sister, she is in the North and I am in the South and have to rely on her children for updates which are somewhat lacking. I don't feel I can ring the hospital myself as they must be so hard pressed.

Many thanks for your support.

servodude
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473063

Postby servodude » January 14th, 2022, 1:04 pm

Bouleversee wrote:.
Many thanks for your support.


You can have as much support from us as you think you need.
Hopefully it will count for something!

It sounds like the folk you've been dealing with haven't been treating you as a priority; which is really crappy and doesn't do anyone any favours in the long run.

I'm sure that someone somewhere knows the answers to the questions that are giving you grief
- we should try and work out how to find them!

I'll start to do what I can tomorrow (it's just gone midnight here in OZ) hopefully I can be back soon with something that helps

Take care
-sd

Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473069

Postby Bouleversee » January 14th, 2022, 1:24 pm

9873210 wrote:
servodude wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:
Is it possible to tell if you had Covid several weeks ago if you had both jabs and the booster?


The test for past infection will (I believe) pick up antibodies from vaccination - so there would be no absolute way to know if there has been a recent infection (it could be inferred from levels but it would be a very imprecise guess)


It is possible to distinguish between vaccination and infection. This has been done for research purposes, I don't know if it would be available for clinical purposes or idle curiosity.

The virus contains several different proteins. The vaccine only generates (part of) the single spike protein. Vaccination will generate less diverse antibodies. Assaying antibodies to non-spike proteins can distinguish between infection and vaccination.


What's the point of research if the results are not available for clinical purposes? It's certainly not idle curiosity on my part. I don't want my sister to die and if it hadn't been for my doing my own research (after months had been wasted on unproductive bowel tests and he was going to be passed on to a urologist because nobody could recognise symptoms of neurological deficit) which led to my writing to the chairman of my then NHS trust and suggesting that my husband had a tumour on the spinal chord and needed an MRI scan, he would not have got the diagnosis of Chordoma and lived for another 22 years. FWIW the orthopaedic consultant he was referred to after the MRI told him he had coccydinia and prescribed ultrasound treatment which I did not believe so asked for a copy of the scan which said he had a well-defined mass in his sacrum which could be one of 3 malignancies, biopsy required, and I had to find the only specialist in the south of England who could perform this "heroic" surgery after his GP referred him to a breast oncologist. The GP who couldn't see beyond his haemorrhoids also told him he didn't have Parkinson's which was also proved incorrect. I don't particularly enjoy having to spend my time playing Miss Marple M.D. but needs must when the devil drives and I think I can be excused for trying to get to the bottom of things.

Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473161

Postby Bouleversee » January 14th, 2022, 7:14 pm

Julian wrote:
servodude wrote:
Given the evasion demonstrated by Omicron I'm surprised they're event bothering with the Sotrovimab (as a monoclonal antibody I would have thought O would just breeze past it)

No. While you’re right that, depressingly, Omicron has rendered a number of the previously approved and quite widely used monoclonal antibody treatments for Covid-19 ineffective GSK’s Sotrovimab is an exception - https://www.gsk.com/en-gb/media/press-r ... -activity/

There might be other exceptions too, I’m not sure.

- Julian


I think it is Molnupiravir (Lagevrio) which is being given in pill form to the eligible patients who have tested positive for Covid.

9873210
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473209

Postby 9873210 » January 15th, 2022, 1:12 am

Bouleversee wrote:What's the point of research if the results are not available for clinical purposes? It's certainly not idle curiosity on my part.


I apologize for using "Idle curiosity". It has the wrong connotations. What I intended to convey is that there are some tests that will not affect the choice of future treatments, and in those cases the test has no clinical significance. A clearer diagnosis may or may not have some other significance to the patient or family, but I'm not sure how you would go about getting such a test.

That the results of research are available for clinical purposes does not mean all the procedures used in research are also used in a clinical setting. Some procedures are too expensive or take too long or too cumbersome or too dangerous to the subject or don't yet answer a clinically significant question. Or the result of the research might be that a procedure is not clinically useful. Researchers try a lot of things, the most common result is "well that didn't work".

Researchers have taken electron micrographs of the covid virus. Possibly useful, certainly publishable, but I don't expect this to ever be used in a clinical setting.

Gene sequencing of the virus is used during research. Where it turns out that the best treatment depends on the strain of the virus this could be clinically useful, but it is more likely that a PCR or lateral flow test could be designed that could diagnose the strain faster and cheaper, so I'd not expect gene sequencing to play an important part in treating covid patients. (Gene sequencing does play an important role in treating other diseases, such as cancer.)

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473955

Postby Bouleversee » January 17th, 2022, 11:13 pm

What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.

look
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473968

Postby look » January 18th, 2022, 1:30 am

about hospitals, i suppose that sometimes women have more success in speaking with the hospital people than men.

about multiple sclerosis, google said there is no recognized treatment, the doctors usually treat the symptoms. here a link about natural treatment that perhaps can help.
https://www.verywellhealth.com/multiple ... ts-5210300

about attacks by people ill in the brain, i have experience with my mother.
Based on my research, i begin to give naltrexone ldn (ldn=low dosis naltrexone). tHERE WERE NO PROBLEMS AND IN THE SOMMER i stop to give it, because usually in smmer there were less problems with my mother and there was ever a war to get the receipt to buy it. in the middle of the summer, she turn furious. I immediately read the time for naltrexone have effect. Oh, it was at least 3 weeks. People will critizise, but i believe this remedy can really help in auto immune disease and several diseases that we don't know for sure if they are auto immune diseases.

look
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#473969

Postby look » January 18th, 2022, 2:04 am

there's a study about the attack of the covid virus on the brain and the reduction of potassium in blood and consequences.

there is a sinopsis in portuguese and a link to the article in english just below. I think translate the portuguese will be more useful than read all the article in english, but you can think different.

https://comunica.ufu.br/noticia/2021/03 ... reducao-de

based on the article, it seems that covid victims should need more potassium.

redsturgeon
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474012

Postby redsturgeon » January 18th, 2022, 9:52 am

Bouleversee wrote:What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.


PCR or LFT?

LFT unlikely to be more than a couple of weeks.

PCR could still be positive after several weeks.

I don't know if hospitals test every day. I would guess different hospitals have different regimes.

John

tjh290633
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474022

Postby tjh290633 » January 18th, 2022, 10:23 am

Bouleversee wrote:What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.

It is probable that she picked up the infection in the hospital, or even that she was reinfected more than once. I imagine that they are tested regularly, but how often, I have no idea.

As far as can see, hospitals are a breeding ground for covid infections. You would think that they had an effective isolation policy, but it seems not. More evidence that the NHS needs a root and branch reorganisation.

TJH

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474051

Postby Bouleversee » January 18th, 2022, 11:43 am

redsturgeon wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.


PCR or LFT?

LFT unlikely to be more than a couple of weeks.

PCR could still be positive after several weeks.

I don't know if hospitals test every day. I would guess different hospitals have different regimes.

John


No idea which type of test was used. If PCR, could you be any more precise about "several". What I am really driving at is if one continues to be ill and showing serious symptoms (not recognised as Omicron), does a test continue to show that or is it based purely on one's infectivity to others and of relatively short duration, esp. if LTF's are used initially.

As regards the antiviral pills which are available for those on the eligible list (as per NHS letter with PCR test) what would happen if a patient was being tube-fed, I wonder.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474053

Postby Bouleversee » January 18th, 2022, 11:50 am

tjh290633 wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.

It is probable that she picked up the infection in the hospital, or even that she was reinfected more than once. I imagine that they are tested regularly, but how often, I have no idea.

As far as can see, hospitals are a breeding ground for covid infections. You would think that they had an effective isolation policy, but it seems not. More evidence that the NHS needs a root and branch reorganisation.

TJH


Yes, those alternatives had occurred to me which is why I asked the questions. I'd love to know which it is and at what point(s) she contracted Covid. She is in a general ward at present. I am not looking forward to my own hospital appt. coming up very soon.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474057

Postby redsturgeon » January 18th, 2022, 12:02 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:What is the maximum length of time one can go on testing positive for Covid after infection?

Are patients in hospital (not admitted for Covid reasons) tested every day? I ask because my sister's family were told today, after she had been in different hospitals for several weeks, that she has tested positive for Covid. When first admitted, it was thought she was having a stroke but that was not the case. Her symptoms are now like those of Encephalitis.


PCR or LFT?

LFT unlikely to be more than a couple of weeks.

PCR could still be positive after several weeks.

I don't know if hospitals test every day. I would guess different hospitals have different regimes.

John


No idea which type of test was used. If PCR, could you be any more precise about "several". What I am really driving at is if one continues to be ill and showing serious symptoms (not recognised as Omicron), does a test continue to show that or is it based purely on one's infectivity to others and of relatively short duration, esp. if LTF's are used initially.

As regards the antiviral pills which are available for those on the eligible list (as per NHS letter with PCR test) what would happen if a patient was being tube-fed, I wonder.


Sorry but it really is difficult to give a maximum. All I can say is that we have tested people who say that they had covid a couple of months previously and the PCR tests have come back positive still. This would almost certainly being picking up "dead" viral RNA rather than any level of virus that would be infectious.

Symptoms showing may or may not be evidence of continued viral infection and could be due to inflammation or secondary infection.

My guess would be that they are taking regular LFTs and generally if they are showing positive then it is likely that the individual is still infectious.

John

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474065

Postby Bouleversee » January 18th, 2022, 12:38 pm

Thanks, John. Actually, I think what she is suffering from now is the consequences of the infection, i.e. effects on her brain, and I'd like to know how long she has had it without it being recognised or properly tested for. LFTs, if even used, may not have shown it by the time she went to hospital and I don't know what happened after that as regards testing and possibly never will.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#474088

Postby Lootman » January 18th, 2022, 2:11 pm

look wrote:there's a study about the attack of the covid virus on the brain and the reduction of potassium in blood and consequences.

there is a sinopsis in portuguese and a link to the article in english just below. I think translate the portuguese will be more useful than read all the article in english, but you can think different.

https://comunica.ufu.br/noticia/2021/03 ... reducao-de

based on the article, it seems that covid victims should need more potassium.

So more bananas then?

And garlic. And vitamin D. And . .


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