Donate to Remove ads

Got a credit card? use our Credit Card & Finance Calculators

Thanks to Bhoddhisatva,scotia,Anonymous,Cornytiv34,Anonymous, for Donating to support the site

Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Forum rules
This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#510989

Postby pje16 » June 30th, 2022, 8:50 pm

88V8 wrote:Human nature innit... it's like climate change, they don't want to be bothered with it or think about it any more.
And it will be hard for the govt come winter when it becomes apparent that it's not 'all over' having to try and enforce social measures after the notparties.
There are times when an authoritarian govt a la Chinese and an obedient populace is a distinct advantage.
V8

Indeed yes it is
but not quite the way they crackdown on it
https://www.ndtv.com/world-news/social- ... cy-2947225


cases up quite a bit last week
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavir ... ly-trends/

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12590
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2601 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#511254

Postby XFool » July 1st, 2022, 10:56 pm

Where’s the herd immunity? Our research shows why Covid is still wreaking havoc

The Guardian

‘Living with the virus’ is proving much harder than the early vaccine success suggested: this fight is far from over
Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London

"We considered many facets of immunity, including the antibodies most implicated in protection (“neutralising antibodies”), as well as protective “immune memory” in white blood cells. The results tell us it is unsurprising that breakthrough infections were so common. Most people – even when triple-vaccinated – had 20 times less neutralising antibody response against Omicron than against the initial “Wuhan” strain. Importantly, Omicron infection was a poor booster of immunity to further Omicron infections. It is a kind of stealth virus that gets in under the radar without doing too much to alert immune defences. Even having had Omicron, we’re not well protected from further infections."

"Contrary to the myth that we are sliding into a comfortable evolutionary relationship with a common-cold-like, friendly virus, this is more like being trapped on a rollercoaster in a horror film."

Looks to me like the people who were always 'Wrong About Everything' are likely still to be 'Wrong About Everything'. ;)

Julian
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 1385
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:58 am
Has thanked: 532 times
Been thanked: 676 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#511411

Postby Julian » July 2nd, 2022, 7:32 pm

XFool wrote:Where’s the herd immunity? Our research shows why Covid is still wreaking havoc

The Guardian

‘Living with the virus’ is proving much harder than the early vaccine success suggested: this fight is far from over
Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London

"We considered many facets of immunity, including the antibodies most implicated in protection (“neutralising antibodies”), as well as protective “immune memory” in white blood cells. The results tell us it is unsurprising that breakthrough infections were so common. Most people – even when triple-vaccinated – had 20 times less neutralising antibody response against Omicron than against the initial “Wuhan” strain. Importantly, Omicron infection was a poor booster of immunity to further Omicron infections. It is a kind of stealth virus that gets in under the radar without doing too much to alert immune defences. Even having had Omicron, we’re not well protected from further infections."

"Contrary to the myth that we are sliding into a comfortable evolutionary relationship with a common-cold-like, friendly virus, this is more like being trapped on a rollercoaster in a horror film."

Looks to me like the people who were always 'Wrong About Everything' are likely still to be 'Wrong About Everything'. ;)

Wow. I think that might well be the single most depressing article that I have read since the start of this pandemic. I must go and try to find that paper on immune imprinting from an early-variant infection; that does not sound like good news and nor does the possibility that recovering from a prior infection without developing long Covid is no guarantee of avoiding long Covid after a subsequent infection (I would like to see the data on that as well). Right now the best that seems to be on offer, at least in Danny Altmann's view, is a fingers-crossed approach that hospitalisations stay within manageable bounds or that next-generation vaccines might offer more durable protection. On next generation(*) vaccines though I find it hard to imagine that they can come along any time soon because I'm not sure that the public would accept anything less than a development process ending in full 30,000+ phase 3 trials similar to those run for the EUAs for the first generation vaccines. There were some challenges getting very high uptake on the first generation vaccines and that was in the face of alarming rises in hospitalisations and deaths so I would imagine that a second generation vaccine would need an approval process at least as rigorous as that used for the previous vaccines in order to get anything like enough public trust.

This leaves us between a rock and a hard place: continue to offer suboptimal boosters to a population who seem to have lost faith or interest in taking them up, or do nothing and cross our fingers that residual immunity might somehow keep a lid on hospitalisations (as happened in South Africa and Portugal).


One thing that the article doesn't consider, maybe unsurprisingly since the author is an immunologist rather than a virologist, is the possibility of continuing progress on therapeutics against SARS-CoV2. Strong developments there could mean that seeing manageable levels of hospitalisations isn't simply a matter of hoping for the best and is at least partially under our control e.g. look at how very effective therapeutics changed the landscape for HIV.

- Julian

(*) By next/second generation I don't include current vaccines with the spike coding tweaked for a later variant but rather something using either different platforms and/or something that goes beyond presenting antigens derived only from the spike protein.

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12590
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2601 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#511554

Postby XFool » July 3rd, 2022, 5:17 pm

UK health chiefs brace for ‘bumpy ride’ amid fears over Covid wave

The Guardian

Dr Jenny Harries says hospitalisations are set to exceed April peak in weeks ahead as infections soar

The policy of living with Covid does not mean Covid has gone away. The latest data shows we cannot afford to be complacent, with currently small but concerning increases over the past week in the number of patients both being admitted to hospital with Covid-19 and those needing a ventilator. Warnings from Dr Jenny Harries today that community infection rates and hospital admissions are expected to rise further is concerning.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1192 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#512976

Postby Bouleversee » July 9th, 2022, 3:52 pm

I get emails from Lloyds pharmacy regularly, having bought some Vit D capsules from them a year or so ago and today there was one saying that Viraleze, a nasal spray which claims to trap and block viruses, is available again. I've never heard of this but if it works could be worth using when I attend a memorial service and reception next week as I doubt if anyone will be wearing masks (I still need to be careful as I have progressive IPF). Does anyone know anything about this spray and whether it actually works? The infection rate has increased to a rather alarming level and I am somewhat nervous about attending a function for the first time in well over 2 years.

scotia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 3555
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 8:43 pm
Has thanked: 2363 times
Been thanked: 1938 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#512982

Postby scotia » July 9th, 2022, 4:25 pm

Bouleversee wrote:I get emails from Lloyds pharmacy regularly, having bought some Vit D capsules from them a year or so ago and today there was one saying that Viraleze, a nasal spray which claims to trap and block viruses, is available again. I've never heard of this but if it works could be worth using when I attend a memorial service and reception next week as I doubt if anyone will be wearing masks (I still need to be careful as I have progressive IPF). Does anyone know anything about this spray and whether it actually works? The infection rate has increased to a rather alarming level and I am somewhat nervous about attending a function for the first time in well over 2 years.

If its of any help in making your decision - we attended a service last Thursday (in Scotland), and some (elderly) people wore masks.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1192 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#512985

Postby Bouleversee » July 9th, 2022, 4:33 pm

Thanks, Scotia. I expect that those elderly people were, like me, worried about catching the virus but we know by now that masks are more effective at stopping the spread of the virus than stopping being infected by it and I doubt if all those who have been socialising and possibly may be carrying the virus will wear masks. In any event, it's difficult to eat and drink while doing so and it may turn out to be a stand up nibbles affair with people in close contact. I may not be able to track down a stockist in time anyway (completely failed to find out whether the Lloyds at Sainsbury's have it) but it would be nice to know whether it's worth the effort.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8890
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1307 times
Been thanked: 3654 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#512988

Postby redsturgeon » July 9th, 2022, 4:55 pm

Bouleversee wrote:I get emails from Lloyds pharmacy regularly, having bought some Vit D capsules from them a year or so ago and today there was one saying that Viraleze, a nasal spray which claims to trap and block viruses, is available again. I've never heard of this but if it works could be worth using when I attend a memorial service and reception next week as I doubt if anyone will be wearing masks (I still need to be careful as I have progressive IPF). Does anyone know anything about this spray and whether it actually works? The infection rate has increased to a rather alarming level and I am somewhat nervous about attending a function for the first time in well over 2 years.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ators.html

Seems the jury is out on these sprays

John

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12590
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2601 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#512996

Postby XFool » July 9th, 2022, 5:19 pm

88V8 wrote:There are times when an authoritarian govt a la Chinese and an obedient populace is a distinct advantage.

Hah! I remember pointing that out right at the start of the pandemic. Mind you, they seem to be stuck in a rut at the moment. Going for Zero COVID is fine if you literally live in a world of your own, but even China doesn't do that.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1192 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#513298

Postby Bouleversee » July 10th, 2022, 9:20 pm

redsturgeon wrote:
Bouleversee wrote:I get emails from Lloyds pharmacy regularly, having bought some Vit D capsules from them a year or so ago and today there was one saying that Viraleze, a nasal spray which claims to trap and block viruses, is available again. I've never heard of this but if it works could be worth using when I attend a memorial service and reception next week as I doubt if anyone will be wearing masks (I still need to be careful as I have progressive IPF). Does anyone know anything about this spray and whether it actually works? The infection rate has increased to a rather alarming level and I am somewhat nervous about attending a function for the first time in well over 2 years.


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/articl ... ators.html

Seems the jury is out on these sprays

John


Thanks, John. This is what Lloyds are now saying about Viraleze, after saying it was back in stock:

"VIRALEZE™ traps and blocks cold/respiratory viruses.

This easy-to-use nasal spray targets the area where viruses first attach and start to multiply, get yours for only £9.99." I suspect they have toned down the claims they originally made and I see they have reduced the price quite a bit."

I suppose it's worth a tenner on the off chance that it might mitigate the risk of infection. OTOH I haven't heard any medics suggesting it as a precaution. I've forwarded the Daily Mail article to my daughter who was planning to pick one up from the local Lloyds, assuming that "in stock" applies to branches and not just a central warehouse. She might discuss with the pharmacist if available.

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1192 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#513709

Postby Bouleversee » July 12th, 2022, 12:45 pm

Well, that was a waste of time. My daughter tried 2 Lloyds branches on the way to pick me up and neither had received any stocks of Viraleze since last September nor was aware that it was available again. I still went to the memorial service which was held in a beautiful church and the reception which was held in the lovely garden of a hotel in beautiful countryside. Nobody wore a mask but I was glad I went, my first social gathering for a long time. Fingers crossed!

Dod101
The full Lemon
Posts: 16629
Joined: October 10th, 2017, 11:33 am
Has thanked: 4343 times
Been thanked: 7534 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#513713

Postby Dod101 » July 12th, 2022, 1:03 pm

Bouleversee wrote:Thanks, Scotia. I expect that those elderly people were, like me, worried about catching the virus but we know by now that masks are more effective at stopping the spread of the virus than stopping being infected by it and I doubt if all those who have been socialising and possibly may be carrying the virus will wear masks. In any event, it's difficult to eat and drink while doing so and it may turn out to be a stand up nibbles affair with people in close contact. I may not be able to track down a stockist in time anyway (completely failed to find out whether the Lloyds at Sainsbury's have it) but it would be nice to know whether it's worth the effort.


I attended the funeral of an old friend last week. The chap was a retired and very well known local farmer and there was a very large turn out. In church, few were wearing a mask. I declined the invitation to come along to the reception afterwards mainly on the grounds that I did not want to expose myself without good reason to a bunch of people who had mostly travelled some distance to be there so I excused myself and went home. I did not get Covid.

My sister on the other hand attended her church a few weeks back, where there were a lot of strangers attending a christening. She caught Covid, as did the Minister and several other folk that she knows. It is still around and can be unpleasant. The minister was away from her duties for three weeks, is younger and had not qualified for the spring booster.

I would therefore suggest that if you need to attend, wear a mask and do not go on to any reception. That will not guarantee that you will not catch it but will reduce the chance I should think.

Dod

Bouleversee
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 4652
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 5:01 pm
Has thanked: 1192 times
Been thanked: 902 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#513718

Postby Bouleversee » July 12th, 2022, 1:45 pm

Too late, Dod, but in this case the risk was greater in the Church than at the reception, since the latter was outdoors, and there were not many young people there. I'll just have to hope for the best.

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8890
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1307 times
Been thanked: 3654 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514015

Postby redsturgeon » July 13th, 2022, 2:02 pm

It seems that the government is having a bit of a push at the moment to get the final 3 million adults who have not been vaccinated to have the jab.

I guess the vast majority of those people not vaxxed will have had the virus already.

Is there any strong evidence that being vaxxed now will give those people any worthwhile or lasting benefit?

John

pje16
Lemon Half
Posts: 6050
Joined: May 30th, 2021, 6:01 pm
Has thanked: 1843 times
Been thanked: 2066 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514050

Postby pje16 » July 13th, 2022, 3:07 pm

redsturgeon wrote:Is there any strong evidence that being vaxxed now will give those people any worthwhile or lasting benefit?
John

I do hope this isn't a question over is the vaccine effective.
The number of people who have had it in the last few months and it has bounced off them like a cold is enough proof surely
I don't see there is a difference if you haven't had it before

redsturgeon
Lemon Half
Posts: 8890
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 9:06 am
Has thanked: 1307 times
Been thanked: 3654 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514056

Postby redsturgeon » July 13th, 2022, 3:39 pm

pje16 wrote:
redsturgeon wrote:Is there any strong evidence that being vaxxed now will give those people any worthwhile or lasting benefit?
John

I do hope this isn't a question over is the vaccine effective.
The number of people who have had it in the last few months and it has bounced off them like a cold is enough proof surely
I don't see there is a difference if you haven't had it before


No, the vaccine has been very effective in people who had not been exposed to the virus. Once someone has had covid once or more times, perhaps different strains also then has the work been done to show how much EXTRA protection a vaccine will give. Especially important since the vaccine was developed against the original strain and now the main dangers are omicron variants.

John

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2572
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 1690 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514071

Postby Hallucigenia » July 13th, 2022, 4:24 pm

redsturgeon wrote:It seems that the government is having a bit of a push at the moment to get the final 3 million adults who have not been vaccinated to have the jab.

I guess the vast majority of those people not vaxxed will have had the virus already.

Is there any strong evidence that being vaxxed now will give those people any worthwhile or lasting benefit?

John


I've seen it suggested that 70% of current infections are in the 15% of people who haven't been infected previously - what the split is of vac or not I don't know.

I think it's one of those things - every jab helps, especially when the NHS is under winter-type pressure.

Me, I got it twice in three weeks (making it three in total), at least I think I did. Neither 2nd/3rd had positive nose swabs, but the third time I got a clear positive on a throat swab, so that's something to think about. My second had the same symptoms as SWMBO but milder when she was testing positive - mostly a very sore throat, the third time I had the sore throat and huge fatigue, it was the worst of my three encounters.

Gersemi
Lemon Slice
Posts: 491
Joined: November 4th, 2016, 3:57 pm
Has thanked: 535 times
Been thanked: 221 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514074

Postby Gersemi » July 13th, 2022, 4:37 pm

Hallucigenia wrote:
I've seen it suggested that 70% of current infections are in the 15% of people who haven't been infected previously - what the split is of vac or not I don't know.

I think it's one of those things - every jab helps, especially when the NHS is under winter-type pressure.

Me, I got it twice in three weeks (making it three in total), at least I think I did. Neither 2nd/3rd had positive nose swabs, but the third time I got a clear positive on a throat swab, so that's something to think about. My second had the same symptoms as SWMBO but milder when she was testing positive - mostly a very sore throat, the third time I had the sore throat and huge fatigue, it was the worst of my three encounters.


What was your vaccination status on each occasion?

XFool
The full Lemon
Posts: 12590
Joined: November 8th, 2016, 7:21 pm
Been thanked: 2601 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514078

Postby XFool » July 13th, 2022, 5:03 pm

As Covid deaths in the UK surpass the grim milestone of 200,000, what have we learned?
Devi Sridhar

The Guardian

While new variants and vaccinations have reduced death rates, and we are living with Covid, misconceptions still linger

"On 17 March 2020, the UK chief scientific adviser, Patrick Vallance, said that keeping the number of UK deaths below 20,000 would be a good outcome from the pandemic. That number was on par with the number of lives that seasonal flu takes each year, the most deadly infectious disease in Britain until then. Two years in, we’ve now crossed 200,000 deaths: 10 times higher than initially expected. What have we learned about Covid-19 in that timespan, and what old beliefs and myths from the early pandemic still persist? "

"This is not a disease that just kills over-80s as the prime minister, Boris Johnson, reportedly messaged: “Hardly anyone under 60 goes into hospital … and of those virtually all survive. And I no longer buy all this NHS overwhelmed stuff. Folks I think we may need to recalibrate … There are max 3m in this country aged over 80.” "

Jeez.

Hallucigenia
Lemon Quarter
Posts: 2572
Joined: November 5th, 2016, 3:03 am
Has thanked: 165 times
Been thanked: 1690 times

Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#514089

Postby Hallucigenia » July 13th, 2022, 5:34 pm

Gersemi wrote:
Hallucigenia wrote:Me, I got it twice in three weeks (making it three in total), at least I think I did. Neither 2nd/3rd had positive nose swabs, but the third time I got a clear positive on a throat swab, so that's something to think about. My second had the same symptoms as SWMBO but milder when she was testing positive - mostly a very sore throat, the third time I had the sore throat and huge fatigue, it was the worst of my three encounters.


What was your vaccination status on each occasion?


Original time was pre-lockdown, before there were vaccines. I took 2 jabs + booster as soon as they were available to me, and I've been free of obvious disease until these recent attacks, but obviously now it's over 6 months since my booster and you'd expect the protection from symptoms to be wearing off now.

I suspect the difference in severity was probably something to do with the amount of virus infecting me. SWMBO had been on a flight so we were being pretty cautious around each other - sleeping in separate rooms, ventilating the house etc - which may explain why the second attack was so mild. Whereas my third attack came from me forgetting my mask and ending up in a confined space where I could have had a big dose of someone's breath, and what followed really wasn't much fun. It's weird - I didn't feel particularly "sick" like you do with flu, just really, really tired and unable to concentrate.


Return to “Coronavirus Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests