The Lemon Fool

...In which case the App must have been modified to reach down into the "Immunisations" folder, or somesuch. I hope it is secure!

Or it is all managed completely differently now.

XFool wrote:I have noticed that in my Patient Access account, although my Autumn 2022 COVID vaccination is recorded normally, it has not been copied up to the home directory as with the 2021 Pfizer one, and as with earlier ones.

Is this perhaps because the NHS App etc. are no longer required to produce a checkable current COVID vaccination status?

I had the Autumn booster recently. Unlike previously, I was not given a card with the details of vaccine type, batch number etc, and it didn’t show up on the NHS App straight away, though it did a few days later.

madhatter wrote:I had the Autumn booster recently. Unlike previously, I was not given a card with the details of vaccine type, batch number etc, and it didn’t show up on the NHS App straight away, though it did a few days later.

I was given a card showing Moderna vaccine and batch number - plus leaflet about vaccine. The vaccination is listed in my Patient Access account in the Immunisation folder, but only the older Pfizer booster is still listed in the home directory.

Just watched this and it does not make me any more likely to take the covid vax this Autumn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGM5Oz9uGA

I to am not anti vax and had been supportive up until a few months ago but it seems to me that the risk/reward ratio has now shifted against healthy people taking the booster.

John

redsturgeon wrote:Just watched this and it does not make me any more likely to take the covid vax this Autumn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGM5Oz9uGA

I to am not anti vax and had been supportive up until a few months ago but it seems to me that the risk/reward ratio has now shifted against healthy people taking the booster.

John

That is interesting. Whilst I am not sure I buy into his "corporate conspiracy" theory, it does seem reasonable that vaccines that were rushed out because of an urgent perceived need might have a higher risk of side-effects, some of which may be potentially fatal in some.

Anyway, with four Covid jabs already (three Pfizer and one Moderna) and a flu jab later this week, I am probably done with jabs for a while.

redsturgeon wrote:Just watched this and it does not make me any more likely to take the covid vax this Autumn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilGM5Oz9uGA

I to am not anti vax and had been supportive up until a few months ago but it seems to me that the risk/reward ratio has now shifted against healthy people taking the booster.

John

Hmm. I didn't particularly like the presentation style with the very dramatic "psychopathic organisations" opening and closing sections, and one strike against the video that in fairness someone like John Campbell is very careful not to do, is that they were interviewing him because he had published a paper yet there is no link to that paper in the description. I would have liked to have seen what his paper actually said, how much data it presented to support his concerns, and what the sources of those data were to see if I considered them credible. Without links we don't even know whether the paper is peer reviewed yet.

Having said all of that I confess that for a while now I have been somewhat concerned about the various claims that there are signals now apparent regarding potential cardiac issues with the mRNA vaccines and I do agree that more research needs to be done on this to either confirm or dismiss those concerns.

Like you John I also came to this (for me) 2nd booster with some scepticism. I am 63 and healthy as far as I know. On the risk/benefit balance I am yet to be convinced on both risk and on benefit. This drip, drip, drip of discussions about cardiac issues is not for now making me think that there is a significant danger, and if I was significantly older or had some other vulnerability I might well have had the latest booster by now, but right now I am still not convinced that it is the right choice for me. I don't see the cardiac concerns lessening over the next few months, much as I wish that new data would come along that did lessen those concerns, so for me I think it would be seeing stronger evidence of relative efficacy against severe disease for my age group that would tip the balance in favour of having it. By "relative efficacy" I mean relative to the enduring protection against severe disease that I might still have after my two-dose prime plus single-dose boost regimen.

One other video I found interesting was this one - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=USKDUvKmN5Q . Again maybe his presentation style is a bit over the top and maybe a couple of bits skirt a bit close to political conspiracy theory territory but for the most part I think it is quite well argued. It's US-centric so it is worth pointing out that in the UK we are not in quite the same situation(*). The video is discussing the fact that in the USA the bivalent booster was given emergency use authorisation with literally no human trial data submitted, it was approved on the basis of mouse data alone with the justification being that the annual flu shots are approved in this way so the guy in the video outlines 11 reasons why he considers that the SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are not comparable with the Flu vaccines hence the justification is invalid. He does go through some interesting data, some from the UK as it happens, where he discusses elements of the risk/benefit analysis for Covid-19 vs Flu.

(*) In the UK we have approved bivalent vaccines where the new (second) variant targeted is BA.1 and there both Moderna and Pfizer did both conduct phase 3 trials albeit on a far smaller scale than the trials for their original monovalent vaccines. In the USA however the bivalent vaccines actually given EUA target BA.4/BA.5 (the spikes are identical on those 2 variants) rather than BA.1 so there was no human data available at time of approval.

Last minute thought - earlier in the pandemic there was a fair bit of discussion about challenge trials and I think in the UK provisional permission was even granted and I think a team at Imperial College was one group edging towards running such trials. The benefit is that they are a heck of a lot easier and cheaper to get statistically meaningful results from vs waiting for sufficient infections to arise. If we were to start doing more rigorous testing on new vaccine boosters doing challenge trials might be very helpful in allowing at least some human testing to be done within the time windows available for annual approvals and might also allow clinical outcomes to be assessed rather than just, as far as I can tell, using neutralising antibody titres as an assumed correlate of protection when no one really knows whether it is a good CoP or not. Does anyone know whether any challenge trials did end up being conducted?

- Julian

Had my 4th covid jab a few days ago. Pfizer/Biontech. Covid records are upto date on the NHS app. Not had any after effects from any of the 4 jabs to date.

BullDog wrote:Not had any after effects from any of the 4 jabs to date.

good to hear that
I've had 3 with no effects
flu jab this morning, not even a twinge in my arm as of now
and having 4th Covid jab this Saturday

Julian wrote:Hmm. I didn't particularly like the presentation style with the very dramatic "psychopathic organisations" opening and closing sections, and one strike against the video that in fairness someone like John Campbell is very careful not to do, is that they were interviewing him because he had published a paper yet there is no link to that paper in the description. I would have liked to have seen what his paper actually said, how much data it presented to support his concerns, and what the sources of those data were to see if I considered them credible. Without links we don't even know whether the paper is peer reviewed yet.


- Julian

Links to abstracts here.

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/71

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/72

John

A sample of one proves very little, but Mrs S had her autumn booster about a month ago. I didn't qualify then and am still waiting for our GP to arrange another session.

However I contracted Covid in late September and it affected me quite badly. Keeping apart in a relatively small bungalow is not easy, but we did our best.

Mrs S has had no sysmptoms, but last week decided to do a LF test and was positive.

I can only surmise that her booster has done its job and prevented a symptomatic infection.

On that basis, I shall have mine at some point, but obviously not yet.

pje16 wrote:

BullDog wrote:Not had any after effects from any of the 4 jabs to date.

good to hear that
I've had 3 with no effects
flu jab this morning, not even a twinge in my arm as of now
and having 4th Covid jab this Saturday

Hope your experience is like mine. I have had 1 AZ, 2 AZ, 3 Moderna, 4 Pfizer/Biontech. Touch wood, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't yet had covid. At least not with any symptoms.

redsturgeon wrote:

Julian wrote:Hmm. I didn't particularly like the presentation style with the very dramatic "psychopathic organisations" opening and closing sections, and one strike against the video that in fairness someone like John Campbell is very careful not to do, is that they were interviewing him because he had published a paper yet there is no link to that paper in the description. I would have liked to have seen what his paper actually said, how much data it presented to support his concerns, and what the sources of those data were to see if I considered them credible. Without links we don't even know whether the paper is peer reviewed yet.


- Julian

Links to abstracts here.

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/71

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/72

John

I don't know the status of various medicine journals - but why is this study presented in a journal of insulinresistance?
I remember the initial publication of "cold fusion" was in a journal totally unrelated to nuclear physics.
I'm also puzzled by the author's desire to immediately halt the vaccinations. I'm in my late seventies, and the infection fatality rate is/was extremely high. Is he suggesting that there a risk analysis that suggests that the vaccination risk is even higher?

scotia wrote:

redsturgeon wrote:

Julian wrote:Hmm. I didn't particularly like the presentation style with the very dramatic "psychopathic organisations" opening and closing sections, and one strike against the video that in fairness someone like John Campbell is very careful not to do, is that they were interviewing him because he had published a paper yet there is no link to that paper in the description. I would have liked to have seen what his paper actually said, how much data it presented to support his concerns, and what the sources of those data were to see if I considered them credible. Without links we don't even know whether the paper is peer reviewed yet.


- Julian

Links to abstracts here.

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/71

https://insulinresistance.org/index.php ... le/view/72

John

I don't know the status of various medicine journals - but why is this study presented in a journal of insulinresistance?
I remember the initial publication of "cold fusion" was in a journal totally unrelated to nuclear physics.
I'm also puzzled by the author's desire to immediately halt the vaccinations. I'm in my late seventies, and the infection fatality rate is/was extremely high. Is he suggesting that there a risk analysis that suggests that the vaccination risk is even higher?

I think it is up to everyone to assess their own risk/benefit ratio when making the choice and all I can say is that as a 66 year old in very good health with no co-morbidities I am swaying against having the vaccine. I have looked hard for evidence that shows it would be beneficial for me but there is precious little to go on. At your age I might make a different choice or perhaps not.

John

scotia wrote:I don't know the status of various medicine journals - but why is this study presented in a journal of insulinresistance?

Possibly the answer to my question is the fact that the author of the paper (Aseem Alhotra) is on the Editorial Board of the journal of insulinresistance.
I would feel much happier if it were published in an independent journal, and one which is relevant to Covid Vaccines. The stated field of interest of the publishing journal is

advances in disorders of insulin resistance

scotia wrote:

scotia wrote:I don't know the status of various medicine journals - but why is this study presented in a journal of insulinresistance?

Possibly the answer to my question is the fact that the author of the paper (Aseem Alhotra) is on the Editorial Board of the journal of insulinresistance.
I would feel much happier if it were published in an independent journal, and one which is relevant to Covid Vaccines. The stated field of interest of the publishing journal is

advances in disorders of insulin resistance

I would be happier too but I think he raises some interesting questions.

John

BullDog wrote:

pje16 wrote:

BullDog wrote:Not had any after effects from any of the 4 jabs to date.

good to hear that
I've had 3 with no effects
flu jab this morning, not even a twinge in my arm as of now
and having 4th Covid jab this Saturday

Hope your experience is like mine. I have had 1 AZ, 2 AZ, 3 Moderna, 4 Pfizer/Biontech. Touch wood, to the best of my knowledge, I haven't yet had covid. At least not with any symptoms.

I have had 1 AZ, 2 AZ, 3 Moderna. Between 2 and 3 , I had Covid. If we hadn't known about Covid, I would have dismissed it as a bad cold. The biggest difference is the loss of smell/taste. This took months to come back!!

The Moderna vaccine gave me after-effects for 12 hours that were much worse than Covid.

My 85 year old mother has just had Covid for the first time and I reckon that it would have been far worse without the vaccines.

So going for my 4th vaccine soon. Then the influenza a month later.

Steve

I just had my 4th jab on the NHS, yesterday.

They told me I was getting the Pfizer.

I was expecting the new Moderna bi-Valent jab, as announced in August. So I queried this and was told I'm getting the new Pfizer bi-valent jab. Fine by me, but I'd missed the announcement of that.

My NHS app record is already updated, less than 24 hours later.

However, it just says Pfizer Cominarty, along with a batch number GD6800. I can't find anything to trace that serial number, therefore it appears the NHS vaccination record doesn't distinguish between the old and new Pfizer jabs.
If I hadn't have asked, I would have no idea which vaccine they gave me.

Has anyone found a way of distinguishing between the original and bi-valent jabs in the paperwork ? If the NHS don't declare it, I suppose comparing batch numbers must be the way.

jaizan wrote:However, it just says Pfizer Cominarty, along with a batch number GD6800. I can't find anything to trace that serial number, therefore it appears the NHS vaccination record doesn't distinguish between the old and new Pfizer jabs.
If I hadn't have asked, I would have no idea which vaccine they gave me.

Has anyone found a way of distinguishing between the original and bi-valent jabs in the paperwork ? If the NHS don't declare it, I suppose comparing batch numbers must be the way.

FWIW, on the little card they gave me with the batch number, under name of vaccine it says "COMIRNATY BIVALENT BOOSTER".

Stompa wrote:FWIW, on the little card they gave me with the batch number, under name of vaccine it says "COMIRNATY BIVALENT BOOSTER".

I didn't get a card, but I would be very grateful if you could post the batch number off that, to compare with mine.

jaizan wrote:

Stompa wrote:FWIW, on the little card they gave me with the batch number, under name of vaccine it says "COMIRNATY BIVALENT BOOSTER".

I didn't get a card, but I would be very grateful if you could post the batch number off that, to compare with mine.

Mine is GE3043.