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Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
XFool
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#411336

Postby XFool » May 12th, 2021, 12:30 pm

Covid pandemic was preventable, says WHO-commissioned report

The Guardian

Independent high-level panel castigates global leaders and calls for major changes to ensure it cannot happen again

"The Covid pandemic was a preventable disaster that need not have cost millions of lives if the world had reacted more quickly, according to an independent high-level panel, which castigates global leaders and calls for major changes to bring it to an end and ensure it cannot happen again."

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414277

Postby GrahamPlatt » May 23rd, 2021, 7:35 am

“No statistics” would appear to be the appropriate place to put this;

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... sh-schools

“...concerns the pre-print of a PHE report that included a page of data on the spread of the India Covid-19 variant in schools. But when the report was published on Thursday 13 May, the page had been removed. It was the only one that had been removed from the pre-print. Days later, the government went ahead with its decision to remove the mandate on face coverings in English schools.”

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414288

Postby Itsallaguess » May 23rd, 2021, 8:18 am

GrahamPlatt wrote:
“...days later, the government went ahead with its decision to remove the mandate on face coverings in English schools.”


The removal of an absolute mandate for face coverings to be worn in schools seems the sensible approach here, and that's especially so where local authorities that might be seeing specific 'hotspot' related issues are then able to ask specific schools to continue wearing them anyway -

Pupils in Covid hotspots in the north of England are being told to continue wearing face masks in the classroom next week.

Ministers have ripped up requirements for secondary school students to wear face coverings from Monday when restrictions ease further.

But council leaders in Lancashire have told schools and colleges to keep mask rules in place until June 21 following mounting concerns over the Indian Covid variant.

Dr Sakthi Karunanithi, Lancashire County Council’s director of public health, said: “This is a very tough recommendation to make at a time when the restrictions are set to ease nationally on Monday May 17.

“But the increase in prevalence of this variant in the North West means we need to take some prudent steps to help reduce its spread.

Bolton council told parents in a letter it was “asking schools to retain the use of face coverings, as per the current arrangements, until further notice.”


https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/kids-covid-hotspots-told-keep-24113511

I think it's clear that if not absolutely necessary, there'll be very little appetite from a Government or societal point of view to return to geographical 'TIER' levels of infection-control from where we are at this stage, and if the bulk of such controls can be delivered by local authorities anyway, in relation to things like schools or businesses as in the above examples, then that seems to be a sensible approach, given that the alternative would be to impose country-level restrictions where they clearly aren't warranted at this point in time....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414297

Postby GrahamPlatt » May 23rd, 2021, 9:01 am

All very well IAAG, however, why hide the data?

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414301

Postby Itsallaguess » May 23rd, 2021, 9:08 am

GrahamPlatt wrote:
All very well IAAG, however, why hide the data?


From your own Guardian link earlier -

Evidence seen by the Observer suggests No 10 was directly involved in the decision not to publish [the data].

The prime minister’s office acknowledged it was in correspondence with PHE officials about presentation of the data but vigorously denied this constituted “interference” or “pressure”.


https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/may/22/no-10-tried-to-block-data-on-spread-of-new-covid-variant-in-english-schools

Also important, and from later in the article -

A Downing Street spokesperson said: “Twice a week Public Health England publish a breakdown of the number of cases of each variant in the UK.

Given public interest in variants of concern, we are looking at ways to publish cases transmitted in different settings in a robust and clear way. PHE will publish this data in due course.”


I suspect people will choose to use language that suits their own personal views on this matter, and that includes Guardian journalists of course...

I think that so long as local authorities maintain the power to decide on appropriate levels of infection-control where it's necessary to act beyond the broader Government mandate, as in the cases here where some schools are still being asked to wear masks in hotspot areas, then this should be sufficient to help control more granular issues..

I note with interest that the above Guardian article doesn't at any time mention the fact that this is actually happening already....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414318

Postby GrahamPlatt » May 23rd, 2021, 9:58 am

Itsallaguess wrote:I suspect people will choose to use language that suits their own personal views on this matter, and that includes Guardian journalists of course...

I think that so long as local authorities maintain the power to decide on appropriate levels of infection-control where it's necessary to act beyond the broader Government mandate, as in the cases here where some schools are still being asked to wear masks in hotspot areas, then this should be sufficient to help control more granular issues..

I note with interest that the above Guardian article doesn't at any time mention the fact that this is actually happening already....

Cheers,

Itsallaguess


And some will quote selectively. It would appear that the information is being withheld, and the local authorities won't be in a position to decide what to do for the best without it.

"Information seen by the Observer reveals that 164 cases of the new variant were linked to schools up to 12 May, or 13% of a total of 2,111 cases. Since then, the number of total cases of the new variant has risen to 3,424 cases, a rise of 160%. The number of cases now linked to schools is unknown.

PHE will only say the data will be published “in due course”. It declined to comment on whether Downing Street has played a role in the decision.

Minutes from the Sage advisory group meeting last week warn the new variants are “capable of generating a wave of infections bigger than previous waves”, and that the danger of “overreacting seems small compared to the potential benefit of delaying a third wave until more people are vaccinated”.

Christina Pagel, professor of operational research at University College London, said the situation was very troubling. “It feels like bad news that we’re not being told.

“There is a narrative that schools are safe but the data clearly shows this variant can and does spread in schools. Two weeks ago, the Singaporean health minister closed schools because of the risk of greater spread in children of this variant.

“Parents, teachers and children just need this information in order to take steps to keep themselves and their communities safe. The new variant is the biggest threat to the roadmap according to Sage, but the data is just not coming out in a transparent and timely manner. I just feel like PHE is letting us down at a crucial time.”

Deepti Gurdasani, at Queen Mary University, London, said: “We know from media reports there are many outbreaks of the so-called ‘India variant’ in schools but there’s no systematic data. In Bolton, it’s risen fastest in school-age children and it looks like schools are contributing to the rapid spread of the virus … and yet at this crucial moment, the government has gone ahead and lifted mitigations. It’s incredibly worrying."

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414340

Postby Itsallaguess » May 23rd, 2021, 10:50 am

GrahamPlatt wrote:
It would appear that the information is being withheld, and the local authorities won't be in a position to decide what to do for the best without it.


Local authorities can, and are, make granular decisions on continued mask-wearing in schools, outside of the country-wide mandate made by the Government at this stage.

That is happening in some of the local hot-spots of concern at the moment.

I'm really not sure what more you would expect to happen and be able to happen with any further, more granular information....

We should be sensitive to the fact that there are social risks in publicly releasing some of this type of information at a very granular level, and I suspect that those risks may well be having some bearing on the wider public release of such.

But then, the Guardian would be the first outlet to focus on any fallout from such social risks if they ever came to fruition, so they can't lose with this type of story, it seems....

My view is that so long as local authorities can make these types of decisions where appropriate, and to enforce stricter infection-control mechanisms where they need to, then I'm not too concerned with all the hand-waving and political point-scoring going on regarding this specific issue..

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414589

Postby Julian » May 24th, 2021, 12:42 pm

More ways of supporting people to self-isolate in areas with higher coronavirus infection rates are to be piloted in nine parts of England.

There will be "buddying" services for people needing mental health support and alternative accommodation for those in overcrowded homes.

Social care support and translation services will also be available.

It is hoped the schemes will encourage more people to get tested and self-isolate if required.


[ Source: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-57221740 ]

At last is all I can say. Well, and I suppose I might also make a passing reference to horses and stable doors. And I also note further down in the article ...

However, people in pilot areas will not receive further financial support when self-isolating.


So in my opinion still not looking at all the essential components of self-isolation support yet although in fairness I might need to retract that final observation if there is a separate initiative going on somewhere in the depths of government to look at the financial compensation issue. The £500 grant for low income people with fairly restrictive conditions plus what seems to be individual extra schemes from various local councils is far from an easy to understand uniform support system.

- Julian

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414634

Postby murraypaul » May 24th, 2021, 2:36 pm

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland- ... t-57228041
Around half of people who were due to get a Covid jab at a mass vaccination centre in Glasgow failed to turn up over the weekend


Not great news.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414798

Postby Clitheroekid » May 24th, 2021, 9:49 pm

murraypaul wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57228041
Around half of people who were due to get a Covid jab at a mass vaccination centre in Glasgow failed to turn up over the weekend


Not great news.

(From the article):

The Scottish Conservatives suggested there may have been an issue with people receiving their vaccination appointment letter on time while the Lib Dems pointed to younger age groups who they said "move frequently" and have less contact with their GP.

Ridiculous that the NHS still relies on letters to notify people of appointments, particularly as nearly all of these would be young people. Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414799

Postby murraypaul » May 24th, 2021, 9:50 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
murraypaul wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57228041
Around half of people who were due to get a Covid jab at a mass vaccination centre in Glasgow failed to turn up over the weekend


Not great news.

(From the article):

The Scottish Conservatives suggested there may have been an issue with people receiving their vaccination appointment letter on time while the Lib Dems pointed to younger age groups who they said "move frequently" and have less contact with their GP.

Ridiculous that the NHS still relies on letters to notify people of appointments, particularly as nearly all of these would be young people. Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?


I don't know if it is just a Scottish thing.
Both myself and my wife had notifications to book our appointment by text. (In England)
Of course you have to have given your mobile number to your GP for that to happen.

And are people really just being 'given' an appointment and told to turn up at a certain time?
Not the case with anyone I know.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414801

Postby XFool » May 24th, 2021, 9:54 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
murraypaul wrote:https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-57228041
Around half of people who were due to get a Covid jab at a mass vaccination centre in Glasgow failed to turn up over the weekend


Not great news.

(From the article):

The Scottish Conservatives suggested there may have been an issue with people receiving their vaccination appointment letter on time while the Lib Dems pointed to younger age groups who they said "move frequently" and have less contact with their GP.

Ridiculous that the NHS still relies on letters to notify people of appointments, particularly as nearly all of these would be young people. Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?

Well I and the NHS relied on texting me a link to my mobile phone, perfectly successfully. But of course, that was dependent on my being registered with my GP to do so. Clearly it can hardly all be laid at the door of the NHS - it depends on what individual people do and do not do.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414815

Postby Mike4 » May 24th, 2021, 10:41 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?


Well for a start few people under 30 use email. That is SO last century.

And how many times do I read on here people saying they don't have a smartphone? There seems to be an inverted snobbery on here where it is cool to say one doesn't see the point of having a smartphone, or a mobile less ten ten years old, or one at all.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414818

Postby tjh290633 » May 24th, 2021, 10:48 pm

Clitheroekid wrote:
(From the article):

The Scottish Conservatives suggested there may have been an issue with people receiving their vaccination appointment letter on time while the Lib Dems pointed to younger age groups who they said "move frequently" and have less contact with their GP.

Ridiculous that the NHS still relies on letters to notify people of appointments, particularly as nearly all of these would be young people. Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?

I had both my invitations to be vaccinated by text. Must be a Scottish thing.

TJH

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414835

Postby Clitheroekid » May 24th, 2021, 11:55 pm

Mike4 wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?


Well for a start few people under 30 use email. That is SO last century.

That's why I asked why don't they enter the 20th century! ;)

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414843

Postby Mike4 » May 25th, 2021, 12:42 am

Clitheroekid wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:Why don't they enter the 20th century and use email / text / WhatsApp etc?


Well for a start few people under 30 use email. That is SO last century.

That's why I asked why don't they enter the 20th century! ;)


I was a bit puzzled because WhatsApp did not exist in the 20th century, and text wasn't generally adopted either, to the point when the general public would expect the NHS to use it to communicate with them as a default channel.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414846

Postby 1nvest » May 25th, 2021, 12:59 am

Well for a start few people under 30 use email

Ask a <30 about email and they may consider that to be a LBGTQ thing ... emale. A blank comment-less gaze if you ask whether they'd like you to emale them.

Same for investing, its all about crowd-funding/startups, P2P lending and bitcoin. Stocks/Bonds/Gold are all so pre Gen-Z.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#414993

Postby Clitheroekid » May 25th, 2021, 1:47 pm

Mike4 wrote:
Clitheroekid wrote:
Mike4 wrote:
Well for a start few people under 30 use email. That is SO last century.

That's why I asked why don't they enter the 20th century! ;)


I was a bit puzzled because WhatsApp did not exist in the 20th century, and text wasn't generally adopted either, to the point when the general public would expect the NHS to use it to communicate with them as a default channel.

I was merely making the point that attempting to engage with young people via the post was unlikely to be the best way of doing so. My apologies for not having more carefully considered the details of the alternatives - I hadn't expected the comment to be read so literally.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#415134

Postby XFool » May 25th, 2021, 7:25 pm

Ahem! From our "As I believe I once said..." department:

https://respectfulinsolence.com/2021/05/19/about-eric-clapton-and-the-covid-19-vaccine/

"Two of these people are clearly two of the three scientists who promoted the Great Barrington Declaration (GBD), namely Sunetra Gupta and Jay Bhattacharya. The third signatory to the GBD was Martin Kulldorff, who’s been all over Twitter spewing hot takes on COVID-19 minimizing the severity of the pandemic, while Carl Heneghan (the other person mentioned by Clapton) is what I like to refer to as a GBD-adjacent scientist in that he clearly supports the GBD and is making the same sorts of bad arguments. I really should do a post on him someday, but in the meantime let me just say that Heneghan seems to have gone the way of the once-respected John Ioannidis in taking a rather exaggerated and biased version of evidence-based medicine to come to his conclusions."

Just saying... ;)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Heneghan

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#415323

Postby XFool » May 26th, 2021, 3:32 pm

The Guardian

"But he says by this stage the PM was listening to people saying there was already herd immunity in the population.

He says Vallance and Whitty gave their views.

Prof Carl Heneghan and Prof Sunetra Gupta, both from Oxford and both sceptical about lockdown, spoke. And Prof John Edmunds from Sage spoke too.
"

Oh dear!


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