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Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452091

Postby Bouleversee » October 21st, 2021, 7:14 pm

Lootman wrote:
vagrantbrain wrote:I was shown some data from PHE for the NW today showing the change in positive tests over the previous 28 days, every age group was virtually unchanged except the under 12s which has increased exponentially and still growing since schools went back. TBH i'm not sure what requiring a covid passport to go in a nightclub or emptying offices again will do to stop kids passing it round themselves at school.

Agreed so we should not impose new restrictions on people over the age of 12 and who have been vaccinated, whilst rolling out jabs for those under 12s.

That said I would feel more comfortable if I knew that everyone sharing an aircraft cabin or pub or restaurant or hotel with me had been vaccinated and had proven it, as is the case in various foreign countries.


You seem to be ignoring the fact that those children are passing the infection on to their vaccinated parents and possibly vaccinated grandparents or older siblings who could produce the certificates you want to show they have been vaccinated. They might travel before they knew they had acquired the virus from their children/grandchildren/siblings. Vaccination does not prevent infection or re-infection, as you must know by now. Chances are that you would be OK on your flights but the fact that all had been vaccinated wouldn't ensure that. Best of luck, anyway.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452096

Postby Lootman » October 21st, 2021, 7:39 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
Lootman wrote:
vagrantbrain wrote:I was shown some data from PHE for the NW today showing the change in positive tests over the previous 28 days, every age group was virtually unchanged except the under 12s which has increased exponentially and still growing since schools went back. TBH i'm not sure what requiring a covid passport to go in a nightclub or emptying offices again will do to stop kids passing it round themselves at school.

Agreed so we should not impose new restrictions on people over the age of 12 and who have been vaccinated, whilst rolling out jabs for those under 12s.

That said I would feel more comfortable if I knew that everyone sharing an aircraft cabin or pub or restaurant or hotel with me had been vaccinated and had proven it, as is the case in various foreign countries.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that those children are passing the infection on to their vaccinated parents and possibly vaccinated grandparents or older siblings who could produce the certificates you want to show they have been vaccinated. They might travel before they knew they had acquired the virus from their children/grandchildren/siblings. Vaccination does not prevent infection or re-infection, as you must know by now. Chances are that you would be OK on your flights but the fact that all had been vaccinated wouldn't ensure that. Best of luck, anyway.

Yes, I do not consider the risk to be zero. Rather that it is a risk I am willing to bear.

I do not worry about flying per se. The incidence of infections amongst aircraft cabin crew is actually below average, which would indicate to me that the high-efficiency air filters on aircraft, and the requirements to show proof of vaccination and/or test results prior to flying, have largely been effective.

The UK is dropping requirements to self-quarantine after arriving next week for vaccinated passengers, and the US is admitting vaccinated foreign visitors again from November 8th.

Bouleversee
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452103

Postby Bouleversee » October 21st, 2021, 8:13 pm

This is a very interesting article on the possible effects, including dementia/Alzheimers, of long-Covid:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... 6de74a4f1c

vagrantbrain
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452108

Postby vagrantbrain » October 21st, 2021, 8:37 pm

Bouleversee wrote:
Lootman wrote:
vagrantbrain wrote:I was shown some data from PHE for the NW today showing the change in positive tests over the previous 28 days, every age group was virtually unchanged except the under 12s which has increased exponentially and still growing since schools went back. TBH i'm not sure what requiring a covid passport to go in a nightclub or emptying offices again will do to stop kids passing it round themselves at school.

Agreed so we should not impose new restrictions on people over the age of 12 and who have been vaccinated, whilst rolling out jabs for those under 12s.

That said I would feel more comfortable if I knew that everyone sharing an aircraft cabin or pub or restaurant or hotel with me had been vaccinated and had proven it, as is the case in various foreign countries.


You seem to be ignoring the fact that those children are passing the infection on to their vaccinated parents and possibly vaccinated grandparents or older siblings who could produce the certificates you want to show they have been vaccinated. They might travel before they knew they had acquired the virus from their children/grandchildren/siblings. Vaccination does not prevent infection or re-infection, as you must know by now. Chances are that you would be OK on your flights but the fact that all had been vaccinated wouldn't ensure that. Best of luck, anyway.


They're not though - that's what jumps out of the data, infections are rocketing in under 12s but the amount of positive tests in older people hasn't changed from the low level it was at before schools returned. Given that schools have been back for at least 6 weeks then you would have expected a corresponding rise in older groups for the last month if that was happening, which the data just doesn't support.

88V8
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452181

Postby 88V8 » October 22nd, 2021, 10:04 am

Bouleversee wrote:This is a very interesting article on the possible effects, including dementia/Alzheimers, of long-Covid:

In a similar vein, an article in Nature Communications on research that suggests a link between viral infections and Alzheimers/Parkinsons Our data raise the possibility that viral infections contribute to proteopathic seed spreading by facilitating intercellular cargo transfer.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-021-25855-2

More accessible commentary ...
Many hypotheses seek to explain the pathological pathways for the long-term neurological effects of COVID-19. Generic explanations include fatigue post-illness, but these do not explain the changes in brain scans of individuals who have contracted SARS-CoV-2.
https://newatlas.com/science/viral-infections-coronavirus-brain-disease-alzheimers-dementia/?utm_source=New+Atlas+Subscribers&utm_campaign=e037f51335-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_2021_10_20_08_08&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_65b67362bd-e037f51335-92456261

Whether or not one experiences significant symptoms from infection, it seems a good idea to avoid being infected at all.
Letting it run freely in the school population seems to me a large-scale long term experiment of dubious merit.

V8

dealtn
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452187

Postby dealtn » October 22nd, 2021, 10:25 am

Bouleversee wrote:This is a very interesting article on the possible effects, including dementia/Alzheimers, of long-Covid:

https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articl ... 6de74a4f1c


Thank you for the article. It doesn't address the question on how different this particular virus is to other Coronaviruses, or indeed Rhinoviruses (or other types of viral infections). Did the accompanying podcast, which I didn't listen to, explore this?

(Disc. post-viral fatigue sufferer - or in today's seemingly adopted language "long-viral", presumably non-Covid)

Hallucigenia
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452204

Postby Hallucigenia » October 22nd, 2021, 11:35 am

Moderator Message:
Statistics should not be posted in this topic. Please restrain from doing this in the future.

TJH


vagrantbrain wrote:They're not though - that's what jumps out of the data, infections are rocketing in under 12s but the amount of positive tests in older people hasn't changed from the low level it was at before schools returned. Given that schools have been back for at least 6 weeks then you would have expected a corresponding rise in older groups for the last month if that was happening, which the data just doesn't support.


They're rocketing in teenagers - the ONS infection survey charts are based on school years, not age. And there does seem to be some spillover into their siblings and parents (35-49), and recent charts have a small third bump suggesting it's now just starting to affect "grandparents". But the generally high level of immunity in those groups means the effects are far less dramatic than what's happening in teenagers. From last week :
Image
Image

murraypaul
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452227

Postby murraypaul » October 22nd, 2021, 1:07 pm

vagrantbrain wrote:They're not though - that's what jumps out of the data, infections are rocketing in under 12s but the amount of positive tests in older people hasn't changed from the low level it was at before schools returned. Given that schools have been back for at least 6 weeks then you would have expected a corresponding rise in older groups for the last month if that was happening, which the data just doesn't support.


From Julian's post in another thread, infection rates have been rising in basically all age groups for ... about a month:
viewtopic.php?p=452087#p452087

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452230

Postby pje16 » October 22nd, 2021, 1:11 pm

you can get today's and the prior 2 days numbers, by country from here

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

We were 8th a couple of months ago, but are now in a champions league position :lol:

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452271

Postby pje16 » October 22nd, 2021, 2:58 pm

Will UK Gov
1 listen
2 act or
3 ignore
I would do a poll but option3 is a runway winner (sadly) :roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59011321

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452308

Postby vagrantbrain » October 22nd, 2021, 4:30 pm

pje16 wrote:Will UK Gov
1 listen
2 act or
3 ignore
I would do a poll but option3 is a runway winner (sadly) :roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59011321


What action can they take? Shutting schools is the only way to stop the current rates of infection and there will be uproar from parents, employers and the media if they actually did that. Making masks compulsory in supermarkets or enforcing WFH or making people show a covid passport to go in a nightclub simply isn't going to stop children passing it around between themselves at school.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452310

Postby vagrantbrain » October 22nd, 2021, 4:37 pm

How I see the rest of 2021 panning out:

Public " Do something!!!!!!"

Gov't: " Ok we propose to take actions that will have a meaningful effect on infections"

Public "You can't do that!!!!!! Human rights, inconvenient, civil liberties etc etc Do something else!!!!!"

Gov't " Ok we'll do something that has zero impact but is acceptable then"

Public "Yeay! :)"

1 month later:

Public "Why didn't you do something when you had the chance????"

pje16
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452311

Postby pje16 » October 22nd, 2021, 4:38 pm

vagrantbrain wrote:
pje16 wrote:Will UK Gov
1 listen
2 act or
3 ignore
I would do a poll but option3 is a runway winner (sadly) :roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59011321


What action can they take? Shutting schools is the only way to stop the current rates of infection and there will be uproar from parents, employers and the media if they actually did that. Making masks compulsory in supermarkets or enforcing WFH or making people show a covid passport to go in a nightclub simply isn't going to stop children passing it around between themselves at school.


can you not remember last March :roll:
I'm not saying go back to that,
but discourage large groups
work at home if you can
enforce masks
hand wash etc
If not we'll be up to 100k cases per day in no time
and see the post above this one

vagrantbrain
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452313

Postby vagrantbrain » October 22nd, 2021, 4:44 pm

pje16 wrote:
vagrantbrain wrote:
pje16 wrote:Will UK Gov
1 listen
2 act or
3 ignore
I would do a poll but option3 is a runway winner (sadly) :roll:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-59011321


What action can they take? Shutting schools is the only way to stop the current rates of infection and there will be uproar from parents, employers and the media if they actually did that. Making masks compulsory in supermarkets or enforcing WFH or making people show a covid passport to go in a nightclub simply isn't going to stop children passing it around between themselves at school.


can you not remember last March :roll:
I'm not saying go back to that,
but discourage large groups
work at home if you can
enforce masks
hand wash etc
If not we'll be up to 100k cases per day in no time
and see the post above this one



None of that is going to stop kids passing it on to each other at school though! Making uninfected people work from home while infected kids are still mixing just isn't going to achieve anything meaningful

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452316

Postby XFool » October 22nd, 2021, 4:50 pm

Act early on rising UK Covid cases or face harsher measures, Sage experts warn

The Guardian

Sage minutes show warning that earlier intervention would reduce need for more stringent and longer-lasting measures

"Ministers need to act early to counteract rising Covid infections, the government’s scientific advisers have said while suggesting that failure to do so could mean harsher interventions will be required this winter."

Um...

look
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452330

Postby look » October 22nd, 2021, 5:59 pm

Sage?

https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/antiviral-herbs

vaccination is needed, when i post about other resources it doesn't mean that vaccination isn't needed.

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452335

Postby XFool » October 22nd, 2021, 6:31 pm

look wrote:Sage?

SAGE:

Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_Advisory_Group_for_Emergencies

"The Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) is a British Government body that advises central government in emergencies."

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452364

Postby tjh290633 » October 22nd, 2021, 8:32 pm

Moderator Message:
The title of this topic includes the words "No Statistics". Some posts above contravene that rule. I am not moving or deleting them, but please put such posts in the correct topic in future.

TJH

gryffron
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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452457

Postby gryffron » October 23rd, 2021, 11:19 am

XFool wrote:Sage minutes show warning that earlier intervention would reduce need for more stringent and longer-lasting measures
"Ministers need to act early to counteract rising Covid infections, the government’s scientific advisers have said while suggesting that failure to do so could mean harsher interventions will be required this winter."

OK. But as shown earlier in this thread, the increase in cases is almost entirely in school age children.
So increasing measures for adults will have negligible effect.
Closing schools will damage education (more).
Schoolchildren don't suffer bad outcomes from covid anyway.

So what EXACTLY do you want the govt to do?

IMO Boris is doing exactly the right thing. ie. Nothing!
Of course, the press just bleat about the headline numbers and not the "why".

Gryff

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Re: Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

#452465

Postby servodude » October 23rd, 2021, 11:41 am

gryffron wrote:Schoolchildren don't suffer bad outcomes from covid anyway


Look, I hope you don't mind me being that guy
It's true that not many schoolkids (relative to older people) suffer acutely from COVID but some do, some die, some will suffer COPD
- so "they don't suffer bad outcomes"? Yeah maybe, but not always

Just saying
-sd


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