Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[Bouleversee]

Hallucigenia -

As a matter of interest, did you have the same vaccination each time or a different one for your 3rd and if so was it by chance Moderna? A lot of people have told me that they were switched from Pfizer to Moderna for their most recent jab and whereas they had had no reaction on previous occasions, they did have some after the Moderna was given for their booster I shared this experience. A young man who phoned me yesterday said he had been confined to bed after being given Moderna for his booster jab and felt worse than when he had actually had Covid , having had Pfizer jabs previously without any after effects. Having just read your post made me curious to know whether the the type of jab one receives prior to infection affects the severity of symptoms when infected with Covid as well as one's reaction to the vaccine.

[redsturgeon]

I must admit that at the moment looking at the data I am not convinced that I will be opting in for the next booster. I had AZ then Pfizer twice and have not had covid.

I would want to see data on the level of protection given by the vaccine against omicron or whatever is dominant by the autumn). I'd like to see significant additional protection for a significant period after any booster. If all it can offer is a few weeks of protection against serious disease then I'm not sure the risk/benefit is worth it for me.

It will also be interesting to see what happens to various vaccine mandates and restrictions on the unvaxxed as current protections reach their sell by dates. For instance we are already seeing customers coming in for covid testing to fly to destinations that are now deeming their previously full vaccine protection is out of date.

John

[Hallucigenia]

Hallucigenia -

As a matter of interest, did you have the same vaccination each time or a different one for your 3rd and if so was it by chance Moderna? A lot of people have told me that they were switched from Pfizer to Moderna for their most recent jab and whereas they had had no reaction on previous occasions, they did have some after the Moderna was given for their booster I shared this experience. A young man who phoned me yesterday said he had been confined to bed after being given Moderna for his booster jab and felt worse than when he had actually had Covid , having had Pfizer jabs previously without any after effects. Having just read your post made me curious to know whether the the type of jab one receives prior to infection affects the severity of symptoms when infected with Covid as well as one's reaction to the vaccine.

Nope, no Moderna, I'm AZ-AZ-Pfizer. But what you've described is consistent with something I've seen quite a bit of anecdote for, that it's the third exposure that's the worst. In my case I'd had the disease once early, and my second jab (ie second AZ) gave me the worst reaction - it kinda knocked me out for 24 hours - whereas people I know who hadn't had the disease had a similar response to their third jab, whether Pfizer or Moderna.

Anyway, that's nothing to do with my recent posts, which was my recent experience of disease. And I'm pretty sure that was a combination of my immunity having dropped 20+ weeks after my booster, and varying doses of virus. Very careful around SWMBO when she had it meant I got it very lightly, being without a mask in a high-risk space meant I got it a lot worse. Looking back on it, it was probably bad enough there was probably an argument for me going to hospital since SWMBO was away for work at the time. I can certainly see how people just end up slipping away when home alone with it as you're too tired and not quite thinking straight to assess how bad things are, which is a scary thought.

[XFool]

...For what it's worth, as far as I can tell I had no significant reactions to any of my vaccinations: Astra Zeneca, Astra Zeneca, Pfizer

This is typical of my experience with vaccinations generally. No idea what it means, if anything.

[redsturgeon]

...For what it's worth, as far as I can tell I had no significant reactions to any of my vaccinations: Astra Zeneca, Astra Zeneca, Pfizer

This is typical of my experience with vaccinations generally. No idea what it means, if anything.

Me neither and also typical for me.

John

[9873210]

I would want to see data on the level of protection given by the vaccine against omicron or whatever is dominant by the autumn). I'd like to see significant additional protection for a significant period after any booster. If all it can offer is a few weeks of protection against serious disease then I'm not sure the risk/benefit is worth it for me.

If you're interested in risk/benefits you need data on both risk and benefits.

Small protection with almost no risk v. Significant protection with large risk. You really need to use numbers here, but if you have sane criteria there are numbers where you'd prefer the small protection.

I don't see anything disqualifying about a hypothetical jab a month, if the data for risk and benefits are there. I've taken medications at least that inconvenient at various times.

[Bouleversee]

Hallucigenia -

As a matter of interest, did you have the same vaccination each time or a different one for your 3rd and if so was it by chance Moderna? A lot of people have told me that they were switched from Pfizer to Moderna for their most recent jab and whereas they had had no reaction on previous occasions, they did have some after the Moderna was given for their booster I shared this experience. A young man who phoned me yesterday said he had been confined to bed after being given Moderna for his booster jab and felt worse than when he had actually had Covid , having had Pfizer jabs previously without any after effects. Having just read your post made me curious to know whether the the type of jab one receives prior to infection affects the severity of symptoms when infected with Covid as well as one's reaction to the vaccine.

Nope, no Moderna, I'm AZ-AZ-Pfizer. But what you've described is consistent with something I've seen quite a bit of anecdote for, that it's the third exposure that's the worst. In my case I'd had the disease once early, and my second jab (ie second AZ) gave me the worst reaction - it kinda knocked me out for 24 hours - whereas people I know who hadn't had the disease had a similar response to their third jab, whether Pfizer or Moderna.

Anyway, that's nothing to do with my recent posts, which was my recent experience of disease. And I'm pretty sure that was a combination of my immunity having dropped 20+ weeks after my booster, and varying doses of virus. Very careful around SWMBO when she had it meant I got it very lightly, being without a mask in a high-risk space meant I got it a lot worse. Looking back on it, it was probably bad enough there was probably an argument for me going to hospital since SWMBO was away for work at the time. I can certainly see how people just end up slipping away when home alone with it as you're too tired and not quite thinking straight to assess how bad things are, which is a scary thought.

You may well be right but is it also possible that you had a different variant of Covid this time. I seem to remember that the first one attacked the respiratory system whereas I believe Omicron goes in the opposite direction and affects the brain and central nervous system. I don't suppose you know which variant you had 3rd time which I understand is why people with lung diseases like mine are not eligible for the antiviral treatments, though we were originally on the clinically highly vulnerable list, whereas people with MS are eligible in theory. Perhaps all the vaccines have now been adapted for this change and this is causing a change in the reaction to the vaccines and the infection. Just a thought which doubtless the experts on here will rubbish.

[Bouleversee]

I must admit that at the moment looking at the data I am not convinced that I will be opting in for the next booster. I had AZ then Pfizer twice and have not had covid.

I would want to see data on the level of protection given by the vaccine against omicron or whatever is dominant by the autumn). I'd like to see significant additional protection for a significant period after any booster. If all it can offer is a few weeks of protection against serious disease then I'm not sure the risk/benefit is worth it for me.

It will also be interesting to see what happens to various vaccine mandates and restrictions on the unvaxxed as current protections reach their sell by dates. For instance we are already seeing customers coming in for covid testing to fly to destinations that are now deeming their previously full vaccine protection is out of date.

John

I haven't had Covid either but then I have lived like a hermit since the outset when I was instructed to shield, apart from my excursion this week. I don't think it has ever been claimed that the vaccine prevents infection but if it prevents or reduces the likelihood of it developing into serious, potentially fatal, disease, I think that is very worthwhile and probably more so now few people who might be carrying it wear masks or stay at home. However, as you say, it would be nice to see some evidence that it actually does that job. I certainly wouldn't risk flying as things stand. A neighbour's teenage daughter who had so far avoided Covid has just been on a school trip to Rome and came back with Covid which she thinks she picked up on the plane but who knows? I haven't yet had chance to quiz her about testing.

[Hallucigenia]

You may well be right but is it also possible that you had a different variant of Covid this time. I seem to remember that the first one attacked the respiratory system whereas I believe Omicron goes in the opposite direction and affects the brain and central nervous system. I don't suppose you know which variant you had 3rd time

Based on nothing more than timing and what variant we know was most common at the time, I'd guess that my second time was B.A.2 and my third time was B.A.4/5. And that fits with what we know about their biology, they are closely related so their symptoms are similar (sore throat is the big thing you notice, then varying amounts of tiredness and brain fog) but the latter is much better at breaking immunity so you'd expect symptoms to be worse.

Perhaps all the vaccines have now been adapted for this change and this is causing a change in the reaction to the vaccines and the infection. Just a thought which doubtless the experts on here will rubbish.

Well if there's a change in the reaction, it's not because the vaccines have changed, because they haven't - although there's a lot of discussion about what variants will be targetted in the autumn boost campaign. In short the US is being a lot more flexible about vaccines for variants than Europe is being, so there's a possibility that the US may end up with a vaccine that's a mix of classic omicron and B.A.5 say, whereas Europe may end up boosting with classic Wuhan or alpha or something. It's the sort of thing that should be decided by the end of this month, but it's a bit up in the air at the moment.

[scotia]

...For what it's worth, as far as I can tell I had no significant reactions to any of my vaccinations: Astra Zeneca, Astra Zeneca, Pfizer

This is typical of my experience with vaccinations generally. No idea what it means, if anything.

To which I'll add AZ, AZ, Pfizer and Moderna. No noticeable after effects. The physical action of the Moderna Jab was a bit more noticeable.

[tjh290633]

We have both had Pfizer 3 times and Moderna for the latest booster. No adverse effects and neither of us has had Covid. We are not taking any precautions, just carrying on with life as normal.

TJH

[bungeejumper]

First Pfizer jab laid me out for three days. Second one not at all. My third jab was Moderna, which was mildly flu-ey with a rather sore arm. (Do I remember hearing something about blunt needles? )

In the hot summer months it's rather hard to distinguish between covid and hay fever, because the symptoms are so similar. (In me, anyway.) But I reckon that the two weeks of general tiredness and aching joints/muscles I had last month were probably covid. They've subsided now, anyway.

It also feels as though I've finally got rid of the brain fog that seemed to dog me for most of the last two years. That might just have been the psychological effects of lockdown, of course. Or, then again, it may have been down to an unrelated medical procedure that I was undergoing at the time. It's great to see the back of it, though.

BJ

[Hallucigenia]

there's a possibility that the US may end up with a vaccine that's a mix of classic omicron and B.A.5 say, whereas Europe may end up boosting with classic Wuhan or alpha or something. It's the sort of thing that should be decided by the end of this month, but it's a bit up in the air at the moment.

As it happens today the JCVI announced their final decision for which groups are getting jabbed this autumn - Covid for over 50s, healthcare workers, vulnerable 5-49, flu jabs over 50 and kids up to year 9 :
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/heal ... -programme

Still no word yet on which ones they'll be using, whether it's a repeat of last winter's booster (Pfizer/Moderna "classic") or the Moderna omicron version.

[88V8]

Bloomberg article, suggesting that the govt are planning to withhold potentially embarrassing material from the official inquiry.
The UK government is trying to block disclosures to the inquiry investigating its handling of the Covid-19 pandemic, according to people with knowledge of the discussions.
Officials have asked the government’s top lawyer, Sir James Eadie QC, to assess how much information the administration has to provide to the inquiry about its policy discussions during the pandemic, the people said.

Perhaps the govt has good reasons - after all, we should not be privy to every twist and turn of the administration process, but I expect there will be a media hoohah from the Boris-haters, while the man himself will watch gleefully from the back benches as Dishi Rishi takes the flak.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-07-13/uk-government-seeks-to-block-disclosures-to-the-covid-inquiry#xj4y7vzkg

V8

[pje16]

Tonight on BBC2 @9pm
Unvaccinated
Professor Hannah Fry asks why eight per cent of the UK population remain unprotected in this timely survey. She brings together seven people who have not received the vaccine with scientists, to dissect the role of social media and analyse medical statistics

[XFool]

Unvaccinated review – the most infuriating TV show of the year so far

The Guardian

Hannah Fry tries to change the minds of seven Covid vaccine refuseniks in this documentary … and you’ll need a saint’s patience to tolerate some of the responses

"Can we inaugurate a Bafta for most patient TV host? The mathematician and science podcaster Prof Hannah Fry needs some reward for Unvaccinated (BBC Two), a documentary that requires a near-saintly level of tolerance just to watch, never mind present."

"Before Fry has finished, Vicky, 43, from Cambridge – who bills herself as “strongly opinionated” – steams in, loudly observing that heart inflammation is a side-effect of the Covid jab that can’t be faked; that this is her main concern, which means headaches are “irrelevant”; and that, in any case, sometimes people really do have headaches, don’t they?" etc,

I clocked "Vicky" from that very moment as what I call a Rejectionist. I wasn't disappointed by the end of the programme!

[pje16]

Tonight on BBC2 @9pm
Unvaccinated
Professor Hannah Fry asks why eight per cent of the UK population remain unprotected in this timely survey. She brings together seven people who have not received the vaccine with scientists, to dissect the role of social media and analyse medical statistics

worth catching on iPlayer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... vaccinated
if only to see how much soclal media is to blame
I would say more but I got told off yesterday for criticising views of others which are daft in my view
but watch this and I suspect you will be critical of some of them

[servodude]

Tonight on BBC2 @9pm
Unvaccinated
Professor Hannah Fry asks why eight per cent of the UK population remain unprotected in this timely survey. She brings together seven people who have not received the vaccine with scientists, to dissect the role of social media and analyse medical statistics

worth catching on iPlayer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... vaccinated
if only to see how much soclal media is to blame
I would say more but I got told off yesterday for criticising views of others which are daft in my view
but watch this and I suspect you will be critical of some of them

well now we can add "getting on the TV" to the reasons why

from the leading pic I thought they looked like am-dram cast for a production of "Shameless"

[88V8]

Tonight on BBC2 @9pm
Unvaccinated
Professor Hannah Fry asks why eight per cent of the UK population remain unprotected in this timely survey. She brings together seven people who have not received the vaccine with scientists, to dissect the role of social media and analyse medical statistics

worth catching on iPlayer
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m ... vaccinated
if only to see how much soclal media is to blame
I would say more but I got told off yesterday for criticising views of others which are daft in my view
but watch this and I suspect you will be critical of some of them

well now we can add "getting on the TV" to the reasons why
from the leading pic I thought they looked like am-dram cast for a production of "Shameless"

Oh god, and they have the vote... Nevil Shute had the right idea.

V8

[pje16]

Oh god, and they have the vote... Nevil Shute had the right idea.

V8

More to the point they can breed
and at the end you'll see that one did - (shock horror)