Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[Mike4]

This is fun, with the caveat that it's a small sample size and they are trying to flog probiotic supplements to ward off long Covid. Using AI analysis of gut bacteria to predict whether you'll get long Covid. How many buzzwords can they fit into one grant proposal...

https://www.scmp.com/news/hong-kong/hea ... g-covid-so

Interesting that the Zoe app that has proven so useful in the pandemic was really a spin off from Tim Spector's original work on gut health and the biome.

John

Indeed, and this is how the Zoe app sprang into life fully formed about three weeks after it first became clear Covid was A Thing.

There are still plenty of people about who have never heard of it, which I find both astounding and depressing.

[Hallucigenia]

Interesting interview with the head of STIMULATE-ICP, the UK's biggest investigation of long Covid which is trying to figure out what it involves, how it happens, and how to best treat it :
https://thebiologist.rsb.org.uk/biologi ... s-treat-it

As an aside, it's good news that the BA2 wave seems to be starting to subside in the UK.

[Julian]

Interesting interview with the head of STIMULATE-ICP, the UK's biggest investigation of long Covid which is trying to figure out what it involves, how it happens, and how to best treat it :
https://thebiologist.rsb.org.uk/biologi ... s-treat-it
...

Fascinating stuff, and much needed research. That acronym (Symptoms, Trajectory, Inequalities and Management: Understanding Long-COVID to Address and Transform Existing Integrated Care Pathways) is almost worthy of a research grant in its own right! How long did it take someone to come up with that?!

- Julian

[XFool]

...And yet again:

Do you think the risk of long-term health problems was effectively conveyed by the Government in public health messaging about COVID-19?

"We still, today, have this debate – or body of opinion – that feels we can live with high infection rates without any implication, and that's trouble because we've only been looking at hospital admissions, ICU admissions and death. But if we have people with chronic complications, even if it's three months, or six months, that's a substantial effect. We're seeing that already in terms of the workforce in healthcare, people are off work or having to cover colleagues."

And it would be good if their research is able to shine light on the condition ME.

[dealtn]

...And yet again:

Do you think the risk of long-term health problems was effectively conveyed by the Government in public health messaging about COVID-19?

"We still, today, have this debate – or body of opinion – that feels we can live with high infection rates without any implication, and that's trouble because we've only been looking at hospital admissions, ICU admissions and death. But if we have people with chronic complications, even if it's three months, or six months, that's a substantial effect. We're seeing that already in terms of the workforce in healthcare, people are off work or having to cover colleagues."

And it would be good if their research is able to shine light on the condition ME.

Who is that quoted?

Who represents this body of opinion that is making any claim about there being "without any implication"?

[XFool]

...And yet again:

Do you think the risk of long-term health problems was effectively conveyed by the Government in public health messaging about COVID-19?

"We still, today, have this debate – or body of opinion – that feels we can live with high infection rates without any implication, and that's trouble because we've only been looking at hospital admissions, ICU admissions and death. But if we have people with chronic complications, even if it's three months, or six months, that's a substantial effect. We're seeing that already in terms of the workforce in healthcare, people are off work or having to cover colleagues."

And it would be good if their research is able to shine light on the condition ME.

Who is that quoted?

Are you now operating undercover as part of the: "We are too lazy to click on an HTML link and it's all your fault!" brigade?

Who represents this body of opinion that is making any claim about there being "without any implication"?

Well, I could suggest possible answers - but then I might have to kill somebody! Or is it the other way around?

You could perhaps ask Professor Banerjee?

https://thebiologist.rsb.org.uk/biologist-covid-19/we-re-trying-to-define-the-disease-at-the-same-time-as-treat-it

[dealtn]

...And yet again:

Do you think the risk of long-term health problems was effectively conveyed by the Government in public health messaging about COVID-19?

"We still, today, have this debate – or body of opinion – that feels we can live with high infection rates without any implication, and that's trouble because we've only been looking at hospital admissions, ICU admissions and death. But if we have people with chronic complications, even if it's three months, or six months, that's a substantial effect. We're seeing that already in terms of the workforce in healthcare, people are off work or having to cover colleagues."

And it would be good if their research is able to shine light on the condition ME.

Who is that quoted?

Are you now operating undercover as part of the: "We are too lazy to click on an HTML link and it's all your fault!" brigade?

There was no HTML quote in your post.

There was no name attached to your quote.

There was no reference to any previous posts.

If there is a lack of clarity or understanding in your message do you concede there might be an issue with either the message or messenger and not necessarily the recipient(s)?

Being lazy is something I have never been accused of or aspire to.

There is a well observed culture at this site of not playing the man. Your response crosses that line in my opinion and certainly doesn't enhance the liklihood of engaging with you on this subject.

Moderator Message:
XFool's response to this post broke site rules, and was accordingly deleted. --MDW1954

[redsturgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unL7XuPnPIc

or the original report here

https://www.health.ny.gov/press/release ... vid-19.htm


Two new more contagious subvariants of Omicron BA2 emerge in New York.

John

[XFool]

Vaccines are no match for long Covid. Treating it is science’s next great challenge

The Guardian

Failure to recognise the need for a response could be a blunder we rue for decades to come

"Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London. He has contributed advice to the Cabinet Office, the all-party parliamentary group on long Covid and the EU"

[9873210]

"Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London. He has contributed advice to the Cabinet Office, the all-party parliamentary group on long Covid and the EU"

They really need an Oxford comma here.* The existence of an all-party parliamentary group on long Covid and the EU would
be both plausible and horrifying.

* Or change the order.

[vrdiver]

"Danny Altmann is a professor of immunology at Imperial College London. He has contributed advice to the Cabinet Office, the all-party parliamentary group on long Covid and the EU"

They really need an Oxford comma here.* The existence of an all-party parliamentary group on long Covid and the EU would
be both plausible and horrifying.

* Or change the order.

Worse, my first reading of that was that it was a description of what the Cabinet Office is!

[Mike4]

Moving on... what's the protocol nowadays after being in contact with someone infected?

I spent Monday evening with a group of friends (bellringing) and on Tuesday, one tested +ve for covid. He naturally told us all but what now? Am I supposed to self-isolate for a week? Or carry on as normal? Something in between?

As it happens work is quiet and I had one boiler fix booked in yesterday so I call the customer to tell them and they said "Not bothered, come anyway please"... and I'm alone moving one of my boats for the next day or two. But the thing is, I now realise I have no idea what the government 'advice' is, given there are no laws on it in force (I think!)

[Lootman]

I spent Monday evening with a group of friends (bellringing) and on Tuesday, one tested +ve for covid. He naturally told us all but what now? Am I supposed to self-isolate for a week? Or carry on as normal? Something in between?

. . I now realise I have no idea what the government 'advice' is, given there are no laws on it in force (I think!)

As far as I can tell the only rule is that there are no rules any more.

I flew into Heathrow yesterday on the way back from our Easter break. The airport was jam packed, like pre-Covid levels. Planes are full, and this was on a Wednesday. I would say that 50% of passengers and crew/staff wore face coverings and 50% did not. It is down to personal assessment and judgement.

Oddly masks are required on the Heathrow Express but not at Heathrow or on flights. There is no longer any need for quarantine upon arrival, PCR tests, face coverings, proof of vaccination or a passenger locator form.

I switched off my NHS Covid app some weeks ago on the assumption that it was past its sell-by date. The new variants are so contagious that perhaps it is just not worthwhile trying any longer to prevent the spread, given it is much less harmful.

[servodude]

Moving on... what's the protocol nowadays after being in contact with someone infected?

Test yourself if you're worried, or you get symptoms, or you think you might be a risk to someone vulnerable
- drink stuff from Islay

-sd

[daveh]

Moving on... what's the protocol nowadays after being in contact with someone infected?

Test yourself if you're worried, or you get symptoms, or you think you might be a risk to someone vulnerable
- drink stuff from Islay

-sd

I prefer stuff from the Spey valley (or even the local stuff from just up the road in Oldmeldrum) to the medicinal tasting stuff from (most of) Islay.

I'll admit I'm saving my LFT tests for just such a situation (symptoms or being a close contact) rather than testing every Monday before work as I have been during the Omicron outbreak. I'm not sure what the rules are anymore in Scotland. (England I think is anything goes with a recommendation to stay off work if you have symptoms). If you are worried about your customers you could also wear a FP2 mask whilst you were on their property which would reduce the risk of you passing it on if you were asymptomatic but infective.

[Lootman]

Moving on... what's the protocol nowadays after being in contact with someone infected?

Test yourself if you're worried, or you get symptoms, or you think you might be a risk to someone vulnerable

I'm not sure what the rules are anymore in Scotland. (England I think is anything goes with a recommendation to stay off work if you have symptoms). If you are worried about your customers you could also wear a FP2 mask whilst you were on their property which would reduce the risk of you passing it on if you were asymptomatic but infective.

Even if England still has some rule, there is no enforcement of it so it would be moot anyway. As far as I know you can discover that someone you are close to tested positive, and then go into a crowded room with 100 people and give it to all of them, and there is no downside, legally.

So the only rule (in England) is the golden rule - use your judgement. Personally I would get a test only because I was sick and not merely because I had come into contact with an infected individual, which I assume in the current situation I am doing all the time anyway.

[Julian]

Moving on... what's the protocol nowadays after being in contact with someone infected?

I spent Monday evening with a group of friends (bellringing) and on Tuesday, one tested +ve for covid. He naturally told us all but what now? Am I supposed to self-isolate for a week? Or carry on as normal? Something in between?

As it happens work is quiet and I had one boiler fix booked in yesterday so I call the customer to tell them and they said "Not bothered, come anyway please"... and I'm alone moving one of my boats for the next day or two. But the thing is, I now realise I have no idea what the government 'advice' is, given there are no laws on it in force (I think!)

I share the same understanding already stated by a few people here, i.e. there is now no legal requirement whatsoever to isolate after possible exposure, and in fact not even if you subsequently test positive. My understanding is that it's all left down to individual judgement now, at least in England. I haven't followed the regulations in any other nations.

In exercising judgement you might find time index 18:30 to 20:00 of this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLNoY6f6SE0) interesting since it covers one aspect of your situation namely how long after exposure might you test positive on an antigen test if you have caught it. The answer according to the clinician in this video(*) is 2-3 days after exposure which is down from the 6-7 days for the original strain.

(*) The clinician is Dr Daniel Griffen who from previous videos I have seen has access to data from a number of hospitals beyond just his own. Details on his background are here - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_O. ... 7d093432da - and this video is one of his TWIV clinical updates mentioned in the Wikipedia article.

Since I've linked that video there was another bit at time index 10:40 through to about 11:50 I found interesting in terms of general chat. Dr Griffin says that he is seeing about 80% of his patients who test positive for Flu are also testing positive for SARS-CoV2. He points out that in clinical settings where once a SARS-CoV2 infection has been identified they don't test any further, in particular for Flu, then you obviously won't pick up a Flu co-infection.

Since the UK has done so much SARS-CoV2 testing I do wonder how testing is handled when a patient presents with something looking like Covid-19. Is a SARS-CoV2 test immediately administered and if positive then no more tests are done? If yes then if Dr Griffin's data is at all representative it casts some doubt in my mind as to whether the narrative that I have heard in some places that Flu was virtually non-existent last year is accurate. Maybe we just didn't see a lot of Flu cases that, due to the infectiousness of Covid-19, were co-infections because we only tested for SARS-CoV2.

Maybe that possibility of undetected co-infections is not an issue in the UK or is somehow factored into the assertions about the lack of Flu. The assertions that I have heard have been from seemingly (to me) very experienced virologists and epidemiologists and I certainly am not arrogant enough to think I know more than they do, I would just be curious as to whether that overly-focussed testing is not an issue in the UK for some reason, or if it has somehow been accounted for when claiming a lack of Flu, or if other factors are at play. Food for thought at least that does leave me with some nagging doubts.

- Julian

[pje16]

I switched off my NHS Covid app some weeks ago on the assumption that it was past its sell-by date. The new variants are so contagious that perhaps it is just not worthwhile trying any longer to prevent the spread, given it is much less harmful.

I deleted mine a couple of months ago
It pinged me when I had been nowhere near anyone with Covid, along with another estimated 700,000 that week, so I viwed it as a nuisance
though I did and still do treat covid with respect, masks in public crowded places etc, though no-one else seems to bother these days

[Arborbridge]

I switched off my NHS Covid app some weeks ago on the assumption that it was past its sell-by date. The new variants are so contagious that perhaps it is just not worthwhile trying any longer to prevent the spread, given it is much less harmful.

I deleted mine a couple of months ago
It pinged me when I had been nowhere near anyone with Covid, along with another estimated 700,000 that week, so I viwed it as a nuisance
though I did and still do treat covid with respect, masks in public crowded places etc, though no-one else seems to bother these days

Similar feelings here. My wife picked up Covid last week at a family gathering, but she seems to have come through with two days under the weather and a cold. Tested positive, but so far I haven't.

Which brings me to test kits. I've been using up stock from when they were free, but this morning I popped in to buy some more. At £1.99, I thought that was reasonable until they gave me this tiny box and explained that this is for ONE test not seven. Whaaat!?
This is unaffordable with a family unless of reasonable means where many tests will be required. It would not surprise me if families who are already struggling would just say, "I won't bother, get lost". If the government is not concerned enough to provide free testing, it's a green signal that it isn't worth spending that amount of money.

What will I do? Well, use up my remaining tests and then think about it. I'm certainly not rushing around testing myself unless there is good reason (such as at the moment, in my family). I shall adopt a minimalist approach after my wife tests negative: if no symptoms and unless asked to do so by an organisation to gain entry, I shall not be testing.

Arb.

[pje16]

I have 3 boxes of LFT kits at home and will take one if I get any symptoms
BUT as some of you know already no doubt PCR tests are more accurate
I had Covid last week
LFT test showed postive on Tuesday, 2 days later and again 2 days later on Saturday
I felt fine just had bad brain fog on the Monday before my first test
Anyway now 2 more LFT tests on Sunday and Monday showed negative
On Wednesday Mr ONS study man came round and the nose swab PCR test result from that, which came back 2 days later, showed positive
I was very surprised as that was 3 full days later than my first negative LFT test
Did another LFT test when the ONS result was known to me and that showed negative