Coronavirus - General Chat - No statistics

[dealtn]

The imms team turn up with 300 (plus a few) vaccinations. Do you think the 200 children are going to be presented to the imms team for them to discuss with them the "no" or "no reply" responses?

No, I think any child that had declared to the school that they wanted the vaccine despite a lack of parental approval would be.

I suggest, in practice, only very few children that have declared a wish to be vaccinated but the school (and imms team) haven't received a "yes" consent will be presented for Gillick competency, in coordination with attempts from the school to involve the parents.

Yes, that is what I would expect also. (Assuming you mean that very few children would declare the wish, rather than that of all the children that did so, very few would be presented.)

That isn't the same as:

The imms team will only be introduced to children that have received parental consent, so won't know of any child without consent, but wanting vaccination.

I think we are almost exactly aligned. The confusion is my incorrect use of "know" in that quoted sentence. They will "know" because they will be informed by the school, who also know. What I should have better explained is they won't be in a position to be the ones that first "know" or "discover" this child, and their wish to be vaccinated.

My sloppiness, and correctly pointed out. Thank you.

[murraypaul]

I think we are almost exactly aligned.

Yes, I did get the feeling that we were actually agreeing with each other, just not in the same words.

[redsturgeon]

For instance, there has been a rash of cases in the West Country lately where people are positive on lateral-flow, may well have symptoms, but come up negative on RT-PCR and so don't have to isolate.

Hi Hal,

Do you have a link for this. We have had several cases in Winchester where we have tested people positive on a LFT and then negative on PCR. We had been assuming false positives.

John

[Hallucigenia]

For instance, there has been a rash of cases in the West Country lately where people are positive on lateral-flow, may well have symptoms, but come up negative on RT-PCR and so don't have to isolate.

Hi Hal,

Do you have a link for this. We have had several cases in Winchester where we have tested people positive on a LFT and then negative on PCR. We had been assuming false positives.

Ach, sorry, I meant to add the link :
https://inews.co.uk/news/scores-more-re ... es-1238649

It's early days, it's only anecdote at this stage, but it feels like something "real" is going on and not an artefact of faulty tests etc. So speaking as a non-medical-doctor I would not regard RT-PCR on nasopharyngeal swabs as definitive at the moment, certainly in south/southwest England. I'd assume one has Covid on the basis of two LFT positives and/or symptoms regardless of what nasopharyngeal RT-PCR says.

[XFool]

Nine Pandemic Words That Almost No One Gets Right

The Atlantic

Actually, you’re probably not in quarantine.

[onthemove]

Ach, sorry, I meant to add the link :
https://inews.co.uk/news/scores-more-re ... es-1238649

It's early days, it's only anecdote at this stage, but it feels like something "real" is going on and not an artefact of faulty tests etc. So speaking as a non-medical-doctor I would not regard RT-PCR on nasopharyngeal swabs as definitive at the moment, certainly in south/southwest England. I'd assume one has Covid on the basis of two LFT positives and/or symptoms regardless of what nasopharyngeal RT-PCR says.

Not sure if it's the same article, or just an article about that article ...
(that page above is seeing my adblocker and taking a dislike so I can't see all the contents)

"Isolate if you have Covid symptoms but negative PCR, says local health official
Advice follows discovery of anomalies in which people had positive lateral flow tests but negative lab results

...

Price, an A&E doctor from Bath, told the Guardian: “She became ill on the Tuesday and had a vomiting bug, and I think a few people have started vomiting and being off school. She did a lateral flow, and we thought, ‘It’s not going to be Covid,’ but it was strongly positive. And she did multiple ones, and they were positive, and so did some of her friends.

“Then she lost her sense of smell, which is a classic Covid symptom – but she had a PCR that was negative, her friend had a PCR which was negative, and she went on to have another one which was negative.”

It was only when she was admitted to hospital that doctors gave her a “rapid PCR” kit, which finally came back positive."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lf-isolate

[Hallucigenia]

Not sure if it's the same article, or just an article about that article ...

inews seems to have been the first to pick it up from social media, but it seems to have been picked up more widely since then.

I've seen another theory that the reason it's happening now is that LFTs are detecting fragments of other coronaviruses that are circulating in the population as "cold" viruses, but the LFTs should have been validated for specificity in that regard, certainly the lab antigen tests are tested against just about all the other existing coronaviruses. It also doesn't really explain why it should only be in one part of the country.

[GrahamPlatt]

Ach, sorry, I meant to add the link :
https://inews.co.uk/news/scores-more-re ... es-1238649

It's early days, it's only anecdote at this stage, but it feels like something "real" is going on and not an artefact of faulty tests etc. So speaking as a non-medical-doctor I would not regard RT-PCR on nasopharyngeal swabs as definitive at the moment, certainly in south/southwest England. I'd assume one has Covid on the basis of two LFT positives and/or symptoms regardless of what nasopharyngeal RT-PCR says.

Not sure if it's the same article, or just an article about that article ...
(that page above is seeing my adblocker and taking a dislike so I can't see all the contents)

"Isolate if you have Covid symptoms but negative PCR, says local health official
Advice follows discovery of anomalies in which people had positive lateral flow tests but negative lab results

...

Price, an A&E doctor from Bath, told the Guardian: “She became ill on the Tuesday and had a vomiting bug, and I think a few people have started vomiting and being off school. She did a lateral flow, and we thought, ‘It’s not going to be Covid,’ but it was strongly positive. And she did multiple ones, and they were positive, and so did some of her friends.

“Then she lost her sense of smell, which is a classic Covid symptom – but she had a PCR that was negative, her friend had a PCR which was negative, and she went on to have another one which was negative.”

It was only when she was admitted to hospital that doctors gave her a “rapid PCR” kit, which finally came back positive."
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/ ... lf-isolate

It seems odd, doesn’t it, that the hypothesis as to why this B.1.616 is giving positive LFTs yet negative nasal swab PCRs is that it barely affects the upper respiratory tract, and yet the loss of sense of smell remains one of the signs.

[Hallucigenia]

It seems odd, doesn’t it, that the hypothesis as to why this B.1.616 is giving positive LFTs yet negative nasal swab PCRs is that it barely affects the upper respiratory tract, and yet the loss of sense of smell remains one of the signs.

I guess you could argue that the fact that 15% of B.1.616 cases can be detected through RT-PCR of nasopharyngeal swabs points to it being active there either in a fraction of patients (who are the ones that report anosmia, but perhaps at a lower rate than eg delta), or in more patients for a shorter period of time. So it has a chance to get into the sensory neurones (or more likely their support cells, which are the ones covered in ACE2 receptors), but then isn't replicating in the upper RT.

Pure speculation at this point, obviously.

[dealtn]

Parental Consent for Covid Vaccination in schools of children aged 12-15 around 65%, based on my wife's school. They have a round of vaccinations today. She hopes to discover how typical her school is or not when she meets up with the immunisation team later.

The result was approx 70% take up, and no Gillick competency test.

The second (and final) visit will be next month.

[servodude]

Parental Consent for Covid Vaccination in schools of children aged 12-15 around 65%, based on my wife's school. They have a round of vaccinations today. She hopes to discover how typical her school is or not when she meets up with the immunisation team later.

The result was approx 70% take up, and no Gillick competency test.

The second (and final) visit will be next month.

That doesn't sound like too bad a result all up - thanks for the report

-sd

[XFool]

Covid response ‘one of UK’s worst ever public health failures’

The Guardian

Early handling and belief in ‘herd immunity’ led to more deaths, Commons inquiry finds

"Britain’s early handling of the coronavirus pandemic was one of the worst public health failures in UK history, with ministers and scientists taking a “fatalistic” approach that exacerbated the death toll, a landmark inquiry has found."

[swill453]

Some people got money back via credit card chargeback after Ryanair refused to refund the cost of some flights last year, because the flight went ahead and Ryanair didn't care that government rules were preventing people going abroad.

But now they're finding Ryanair won't let them fly again unless they repay the refund.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/20 ... ew-flights

They seem to have pretty brutal business practices, but keep bouncing back.

Scott.

[XFool]

Where are they now?

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/12/preventing-covid-infections-among-healthy-children-is-pointless/

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-in-doubt-blame-the-lockdown-sceptics/

Same place as ever they were...

[servodude]

Where are they now?

https://dailysceptic.org

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-in-doubt-blame-the-lockdown-sceptics/

I think they've peaked

[dealtn]

Where are they now?

https://dailysceptic.org/2021/10/12/preventing-covid-infections-among-healthy-children-is-pointless/

https://www.conservativewoman.co.uk/when-in-doubt-blame-the-lockdown-sceptics/

Same place as ever they were...

So what's your criticism of their point of view here, I can't figure it out from your cryptic "same place as they ever were" comment? I assume you have read the links.

[XFool]

So what's your criticism of their point of view here, I can't figure it out from your cryptic "same place as they ever were" comment? I assume you have read the links.

OK. If you don't know by now I can't see that I can explain it to you. (And possibly, trying to do so would likely get the post moved or deleted)

[dealtn]

So what's your criticism of their point of view here, I can't figure it out from your cryptic "same place as they ever were" comment? I assume you have read the links.

OK. If you don't know by now I can't see that I can explain it to you. (And possibly, trying to do so would likely get the post moved or deleted)

No. I don't know by now, having read them (not that I agree 100% with them either).

I'm not sure the point of a discussion board if you think the appropriate engagement is to post something and not wish to discuss that something.

[Itsallaguess]

For instance, there has been a rash of cases in the West Country lately where people are positive on lateral-flow, may well have symptoms, but come up negative on RT-PCR and so don't have to isolate.

Do you have a link for this. We have had several cases in Winchester where we have tested people positive on a LFT and then negative on PCR. We had been assuming false positives.

Ach, sorry, I meant to add the link :

https://inews.co.uk/news/scores-more-re ... es-1238649

It's early days, it's only anecdote at this stage, but it feels like something "real" is going on and not an artefact of faulty tests etc.

It looks like the issue has been sourced to a specific lab -

People who got a negative result from a Covid testing site in Berkshire earlier this month are being told to book another test, amid fears they were mistakenly given the all-clear.

Some PCR tests carried out at Newbury Showground resulted in false negatives, West Berkshire Council said.

The BBC has been told the problems relate to one specific lab, rather than the site, and have now been fixed.

But some other people in south-west England are thought to be affected too. Health officials are set to give out more details later on Friday.

The council also said it had been told by the government that "a number of sites nationally may have been affected by this issue, including the one at Newbury Showground".

It comes after widespread reports in south-west England of people testing positive with lateral flow tests, but then later testing negative when they got a PCR test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58921280

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Mike4]

Do you have a link for this. We have had several cases in Winchester where we have tested people positive on a LFT and then negative on PCR. We had been assuming false positives.

Ach, sorry, I meant to add the link :

https://inews.co.uk/news/scores-more-re ... es-1238649

It's early days, it's only anecdote at this stage, but it feels like something "real" is going on and not an artefact of faulty tests etc.

It looks like the issue has been sourced to a specific lab -

People who got a negative result from a Covid testing site in Berkshire earlier this month are being told to book another test, amid fears they were mistakenly given the all-clear.

Some PCR tests carried out at Newbury Showground resulted in false negatives, West Berkshire Council said.

The BBC has been told the problems relate to one specific lab, rather than the site, and have now been fixed.

But some other people in south-west England are thought to be affected too. Health officials are set to give out more details later on Friday.

The council also said it had been told by the government that "a number of sites nationally may have been affected by this issue, including the one at Newbury Showground".

It comes after widespread reports in south-west England of people testing positive with lateral flow tests, but then later testing negative when they got a PCR test.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-58921280

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

The thing about this still unclear to me, having read the links and heard the BBC report on R4, is whether the Newbury Showground testing centre has its own PCR testing lab on site or whether the swabs/samples taken there are sent away to a lab accepting samples from all over the south of England.

Some of the statements imply (but don't explicitly state) that Newbury does it's own PCR tests. If this is the case then why the huge geographical range of cases, from the west country to Hampshire? If it doesn't have its own lab, then why does Newbury keep being mentioned in the news and getting particular attention?

All very odd.