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Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
scotia
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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#374588

Postby scotia » January 7th, 2021, 11:20 pm

Another week of (English) data - the first week of 2021.
To recap:- The Blue Points are the deaths by publish date, summed over the preceding week.
As I described in previous posts there is (or has been) a strong correlation between the deaths by publish date, and the hospital admissions of 13 days previous. So the Red Points are the hospital admissions, summed over a week, multiplied by 0.265, and moved forward by 13 days. And these are renamed as being the Projected deaths by publish date. The size of the vertical bars are the statistical standard deviations, assuming a Poisson distribution.

Image

The Christmas and New Year holidays have created significant volatility, but it does now look as if the ratio of deaths to admissions is increasing, and/or the time between admissions and deaths is shortening. I have looked at reducing the time slip to 12 days, and increasing the ratio in steps to 0.29 ( both with and without the reduced time slip), and a better fit can be obtained to recent (few weeks) data - but the holiday volatility and the lack of any significant features (e.g. a turning point) makes any definite prognostications a pure guess. To add to the uncertainty, Admissions data has recently appeared to be being published between one and two days nearer to the publication date of the deaths than it did in the past. E.G. this evening's government data publishes deaths up to the 7th January, and admissions up to 4th January - whereas previously I would only have expected the admissions data up to the 3rd January. So has there been a change in how it is recorded? I have searched the Government Covid-19 data site, but have found no explanations.
However, whatever adjustments are made it looks likely that within a few weeks we will exceed 6000 deaths per week. I keep hoping otherwise - maybe the vaccinations and the lockdown will start to bite.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#374592

Postby servodude » January 8th, 2021, 12:00 am

scotia wrote: it does now look as if the ratio of deaths to admissions is increasing, and/or the time between admissions and deaths is shortening


I'd expect the relationship to change quite a bit as capacity is reached

- sd

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#374595

Postby vrdiver » January 8th, 2021, 12:09 am

servodude wrote:
scotia wrote: it does now look as if the ratio of deaths to admissions is increasing, and/or the time between admissions and deaths is shortening


I'd expect the relationship to change quite a bit as capacity is reached

- sd

I was just wondering the exact same point. As ICUs come close to capacity, patients will be deferred (with worse outcomes) or transferred (so endure transportation whilst in need of ICU).

If ICU capacity is breached at a local level then all bets are off, with NHS staff being forced to play god. I do not envy them.

VRD

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#374596

Postby servodude » January 8th, 2021, 12:33 am

vrdiver wrote:
servodude wrote:
scotia wrote: it does now look as if the ratio of deaths to admissions is increasing, and/or the time between admissions and deaths is shortening


I'd expect the relationship to change quite a bit as capacity is reached

- sd

I was just wondering the exact same point. As ICUs come close to capacity, patients will be deferred (with worse outcomes) or transferred (so endure transportation whilst in need of ICU).

If ICU capacity is breached at a local level then all bets are off, with NHS staff being forced to play god. I do not envy them.

VRD


Indeed there's a slew of factors that impact both the modelling and the patient's outcome.

I can readily imagine some commentators pointing in the near future at admissions per day falling as "proof" of the situation abating
- when it's actually the opposite (they can't admit anyone because they are full)

It's a horrid and frightening situation
-sd

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#374747

Postby zico » January 8th, 2021, 1:27 pm

servodude wrote:
Indeed there's a slew of factors that impact both the modelling and the patient's outcome.

I can readily imagine some commentators pointing in the near future at admissions per day falling as "proof" of the situation abating
- when it's actually the opposite (they can't admit anyone because they are full)

It's a horrid and frightening situation
-sd


Yes, the NHS will never fail the government test of being overwhelmed because hospitals won't admit patients if they don't have the room for them.
Some interesting animated graphs on Twitter from FT's John-Burn Murdoch, comparing pressure on NHS with bad flu seasons, which debunk a few myths.
Graph 1 (based on England data) shows 2020-21 is already 4 times worse for ICU admissions in December than the worst flu season in the last decade.
Graph 2 shows that for London hospitals critical care beds occupied in January is already 25% higher than normal.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376177

Postby spasmodicus » January 12th, 2021, 10:32 am

Sitting here, under lockdown, Mrs S and I pricked up our ears at the following News flash on the BBC:

Vaccination rate is 200,000/day as of 10/01/21, but will “increase considerably as new vaccination centres open”. The intention is to offer vaccinations to all age groups in UK by Autumn.

That’s 8 months – 32 weeks for approx 40 million people or 1.25 million/week, i.e. something over 200k/day.

Predictions as to when we might be able to get back to a more normal life are, as ever, vague. Mrs S said to me “what happened to that spreadsheet that you were tinkering with back in the first lockdown. If you’re such a (expletive deleted) computing hotshot, why can’t you work out when we’ll be out of this?”

So, stung by this cruel remark, I pulled out my trusty laptop and fired up my old Excel covid model spreadsheet. My modelling attempts back in March last year were hampered by an extreme lack of reliable data and general lassitude and I rather gave up on it. Now we have a lot of stats from the ONS, detailing the number of those infected, the daily death toll, hospital admissions and numbers of people found to have covid antibodies. These figures all come with error bars and contributors to this thread have shown that meaningful insights may be derived from them. Nice work, Scotia, your efforts are appreciated!

My spreadsheet is an attempt to use modelling to predict future infections, future deaths and the possible effect of vaccine on the present wave of the covid19 pandemic. It may give an idea of when we might consider getting back to a more normal way of life.

I have chosen a starting point of December 2nd 2020, as before that in the autumn, the numbers of deaths/day, hospitalizations dipped, before starting the current “3rd wave”, attributed variously to easing of the imposition of lockdowns and their observance as well as the emergence of the new, more infective strain of the virus. I restricted the study to England which itself represents an average for the whole country where different regions have sometime experienced quite different infection, hospitalization and death rates.


The “base case” conditions and parameters
P total population 5.63E+07
Id Duration infective, days 10
RT No. infected by each infected person 1.36
Rd daily no. inf. by each infected 0.131 (calculated RT/Rd)
h0 population immunity at time zero, % 7
ir0 infection rate /100, 000 at start 780
dT time increment days 1
IFR infected fatality rate % 0.9
XD duration of death risk days 20
Xp daily probability of dying, if infected 0.00045 (calculated IFR/XD)
starting day in year 2020 337 (2nd December 2020)
D prior pandemic deaths at start 53339
Vd no. of vaccinations/day 0 (after December 31st 2020)

I started by running the model, beginning it at Dec 2nd 2020, using the above parameters. At that point, I had not considered the effect of vaccinations, so I incorporated a crude calculation of their effect. For a more detailed explanation see the notes at the end of this post.

MODEL RESULTS
Key results for the base “no more vaccinations” case. This assumes that 500,000 vaccinations were done before January 1st 2021. The effect of even this modest level of vaccination on infection rates is appreciable, equivalent to the RT reducing by about 0.02.

12/01/21 News flash on the Beeb today “…new infections estimated to be running at as much as 150000/day” (is that for whole UK or England only?)
The model estimates 142,000 new infections on 11th January

Base case for England. 1.5million vaccinations at January 10th
If there had been no more vaccinations from 10th January, the model predicts
24/01/21 Peak infection rate 145700/day Cumulative deaths 87467
06/04/21 New infections fall to zero after 145549 deaths

100,000 vaccinations/day
18/01/21 Peak infection rate 140057/day Cumulative deaths 80937
22/03/21 New infections fall to zero after 142320 deaths

200000 vaccinations/day
15/01/21 Peak infection rate 137554/day Cumulative deaths 77954
13/03/21 New infections fall to zero after 132820 deaths (13.9 million vaccinated)

250000 vaccinations/day
14/01/21 Peak infection rate 136781/day Cumulative deaths 77008
09/03/21 New infections fall to zero after 128789 (16 million vaccinated)

These estimates may be taken with a big pinch of salt, as the rate of vaccination rollout is poorly modelled. The vaccination effect is probably overstated, because maybe 10 to 20% of those vaccinated will already be immune and those that have been vaccinated may retain an unknown tendency to spread infection. The cumulative deaths are also probably considerably overstated, because the most vulnerable are being vaccinated first.

That said, both Mrs S and I took solace from the idea that new infections may peak quite soon, which will at least provide some relief from the prevailing doom and gloom. Taking the 200,000 vaccinations/day case, we might expect hospital admissions to peak within the next 1 to 3 weeks and some easing of lockdown to be possible in early to mid February, when new infections and deaths/day figures will be falling quite rapidly.

Finally, thanks to all on this thread who have tried so hard to make sense of this beastly pandemic. Stay safe and follow the guidelines!

S


NOTES ON THE MODEL
The first parameter to decide is the % of the population which have immunity. There are various ways of going about this. Assuming an IFR of 1%, with the cumulative death figures since the beginning of the pandemic, for everone that died, 99 would survive , so in a populationof 56.3 million, 9.4% or over 5 million would have survived and might have become immune as a result. The ONS publishes figures for population antibody testing which suggest that in Nov 2020 a median figure of 8.7% of the population had antibodies.Their table also shows some decay of those showing antibodies from 7.4% to 5.5% between the first wave in May and August 2020.
The ONS figures exclude those under 16 and there is also uncertainty about the role antibodies play and how general immunity lasts in survivors of covid19 infection. I concluded that 10% would be a reasonable (minimum) figure for the immune population .

Having decided on the starting number of those susceptible, we then need to estimate how many were infected on the starting date. Again, the ONS publishes weekly stats for estimated % of population that are infected, based on population wide testing. The relevant number for 2nd December is 440000, or about 780 per 100,000 population.
The most recent measurement is 8th January 2021 so we have 5 new data points against which to compare the model.

The model works by doing a daily calculation of the number of new infections, based on the number already infected, the number susceptible, both of which we know at time zero, together with the infamous “R value”. In this model, I call it RT.
The “R value” as bandied about by the media, is a measure of the tendency of a pandemic to grow, or die out. Above 1.0, they say, the pandemic will grow and below 1.0, it will die out. In fact, real life is more compicated than that. R0 conventionally symbolises the number of people that a person with the virus will typically infect, in a population with no immunity, when going about their normal daily life without precautions or lockdowns. In this model’s context RT is the effective R value for a given “tier” of restrictions and the degree of compliance thereto. It is an integral under the average infectivity profile for the population. The model needs an estimate of Rd, that is the average daily number of infections caused by an infected person, akin to the average probability of an infection occurring in a single day.

Rd can be approximated as RT/Di, where Di is an average of the number of days that people stay infectious after contracting the virus. Obviously, after initial exposure there will be a short delay, followed by a progressive increase in infectivity, which will peak and then decline after a few days. Individual responses will vary widely, so a person’s net infectiousness is an integral under an infecttivity profile of somewhat uncertain shape, with a duration normally measured in days, but which in a few cases could extend for weeks. A single number for this represents an average over the whole infected population. There is widespread ageement that quarantine should be specified as 10 or 14 days, in the hope that this period will cover most of the infectiousness that people exhibit, so setting a value of Di of 10 will probably not be too far out.

We can now try to set RT in our model to see whether we can get the estimated current infection rate to match the figures from the ONS. At the start date, the daily number of new infections was rising quite briskly, so RT is going to be somewhat above 1.0, probably in the range 1.1 to 1.5.

It turns out that a value of RT = 1.36 minimizes the squared error between the six one week spaced data points representing the number of infected people predicted by the model and the number estimated by the ONS. RMS error is about 3%. This is consistent with the idea that R was about 1.0 prior to the new covid variant, which has up to 40% increased infectivity.

We are now in a position to estimate daily numbers of deaths. Each day, this number is subtracted from the susceptible population. Most victims die within 28 of days of testing positive and hospital admissions correlate with deaths about 13 days later (see Scotia’s posts earlier in this thread) .

A simple way to to implement an approximate daily deaths estimate is to take new infections from an earlier date and multiply by the IFR. I chose a value of 20 days for the delay between infection and the corresponding deaths estimate, i.e. the approx average of 28 and 13. The first 20 day’s deaths are then dependent on new infections before the start of the model, so the ONS figures are applied for that period.

In this context, IFR (Infected Fatality Rate) is a broad brush average for the percentage that die after being infected. The average IFR will have changed with time as better treatment options have been rolled out in hospitals. Because IFR is very strongly age dependent, a single value will not properly represent a population which is being selectively vaccinated by age. To date, an average IFR of about 1% seems to fit reasonably well with the data, but it should change quite rapidly as the more vulnerable age groups are vaccinated first. I tried to refine this by fitting the data points between 22 December and 10th January. Recall that the model starts at 2 December and that deaths result from infection 20 days earlier. As Scotia pointed out in his study of the relationship between hospital admissions and deaths, the data for the period around Christmas are quite scattered and the ONS figures for early January are still under review, so I was unable to get a very satisfactory fit. As of today (12/01/21) the best fit is obtained with an IFR of 0.9.

Vaccinations make prediction difficult as they will affect both the susceptibility to infection versus age and the IFR versus age. Vaccinating front line health workers and teachers early on probably causes a disproportionate decrease in infection rates, whereas vaccinating the vulnerable will reduce the death rate, but will not perhaps have much effect on the overall rate of infection. After vaccination, immunity takes a few days to build up. With this in mind, to calculate the base case (what happens with zero vaccinations) I applied a constant of 500,000 vaccinations, applied to January 1st, ramping up to 1.5million by January 11th.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376182

Postby dealtn » January 12th, 2021, 10:44 am

spasmodicus wrote:
NOTES ON THE MODEL
The first parameter to decide is the % of the population which have immunity. There are various ways of going about this. Assuming an IFR of 1%, with the cumulative death figures since the beginning of the pandemic, for everone that died, 99 would survive , so in a populationof 56.3 million, 9.4% or over 5 million would have survived and might have become immune as a result. The ONS publishes figures for population antibody testing which suggest that in Nov 2020 a median figure of 8.7% of the population had antibodies.Their table also shows some decay of those showing antibodies from 7.4% to 5.5% between the first wave in May and August 2020.
The ONS figures exclude those under 16 and there is also uncertainty about the role antibodies play and how general immunity lasts in survivors of covid19 infection. I concluded that 10% would be a reasonable (minimum) figure for the immune population .



it looks like you are using a susceptibility rate of 100%.

As you say the first parameter is to decide the % of the population that have immunity. Your assumption appears to be that immunity only comes about if you have antibodies, which might arise presumably either from prior infection, or vaccination. As such your model is looking at a 100% susceptibility worse case scenario. Maybe that is no bad thing if that's what is intended, but if it is for practical, or predictive purposes, might it not make sense to relax the 100% susceptibility start point, and consider other immunity groups?

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376187

Postby johnhemming » January 12th, 2021, 10:56 am

spasmodicus wrote:NOTES ON THE MODEL
Assuming an IFR of 1%

Apart from dealtn's point about susceptibility there is a range of views as to what the IFR is. The IFR also depends upon how people catch the infection. If someone is on a tube train journey and catches if from five people that is likely to be worse than catching it once breathing in small amount of the virus in a supermarket or a school, for example.

That is one reason why IFRs vary so widely (from as low as 0.1 or 0.2% upwards). You can work back from hospital admissions or fatalities then to get a number of infections.

There is another way of calculating infection rates which is to have a doubling time and a start date.

All of these really require modelling that has some form of sensitivity.

On the other hand we know some areas in the UK had herd immunity in August (some Inner London areas for example) Given the size of the population served by those trust areas we can work back to the number of hospital admissions that imply herd immunity.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376242

Postby spasmodicus » January 12th, 2021, 1:51 pm

dealtn wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:
NOTES ON THE MODEL
The first parameter to decide is the % of the population which have immunity. There are various ways of going about this. Assuming an IFR of 1%, with the cumulative death figures since the beginning of the pandemic, for everone that died, 99 would survive , so in a populationof 56.3 million, 9.4% or over 5 million would have survived and might have become immune as a result. The ONS publishes figures for population antibody testing which suggest that in Nov 2020 a median figure of 8.7% of the population had antibodies.Their table also shows some decay of those showing antibodies from 7.4% to 5.5% between the first wave in May and August 2020.
The ONS figures exclude those under 16 and there is also uncertainty about the role antibodies play and how general immunity lasts in survivors of covid19 infection. I concluded that 10% would be a reasonable (minimum) figure for the immune population .



it looks like you are using a susceptibility rate of 100%.

As you say the first parameter is to decide the % of the population that have immunity. Your assumption appears to be that immunity only comes about if you have antibodies, which might arise presumably either from prior infection, or vaccination. As such your model is looking at a 100% susceptibility worse case scenario. Maybe that is no bad thing if that's what is intended, but if it is for practical, or predictive purposes, might it not make sense to relax the 100% susceptibility start point, and consider other immunity groups?


Hi there,
In a word, no. It's difficult to go into all the nuances of such in the relatively short notes that I wrote. For simplicity I am using a model in which parameters like RT and IFR do not vary with time, which restricts modelling to periods when these things don't change much. It would be quite simple to make these parameters time variant, as inputs, but one would have to decide how to vary them, increasing complication and the danger of over-fitting. In the model, the susceptible population is calculated from a fixed starting value, e.g. 90% of the population, which had to be decided on some rational basis. Whilst I accpet that some areas of the country may have achieved herd immunity, we are talking here about an average over the whole of England. One could,of course, run the such a model region by region, but this would require a lot of extra work in finding and setting the appropriate parameters.

So the initial estimate that I used for the whole of England is that 90% of the population P was susceptible on Dec 2nd. The susceptibility s, i.e. those not infected, immune or dead is recalculated at each time step j as
s(j) = P – c(j-1) – B(j-1) – X(j-1)
where
P is the total population
c(j) is new daily infections
B(j) is the cumulative number of covid recoveries since j=0
X(j) is the cumulative number of deaths since j=0

now, daily infections are calculated from
c(j) = Rd * s(j) / P
where Rd=RT/Di is a simple (constant) estimate for the number of infections that an infected individual will cause in a day.
RT is an estimate for the R value under current lock down conditions and social behaviour, averaged of course over the whole of England.
Di is the no. of days that a person remains infected (see previous notes).

Every day, some people b(j) will also stop being infected, or an unlucky x(j) will die.
b(j) is calculated as
b(j) = c(j-Di) i.e. everyone infected Di days earlier got better (less those that died)
this is added to the cumulative recoveries Bj), i.e.
B(j) =B(j-1) + b(j)
similarly x(j) is calculated from the IFR and the number of infections XD days before, i.e.
x(j) = c(j-XD) * IFR
XD may be interpreted as the number of days before the average victim dies, after becoming infected. This is a pretty rough estimate, but doesn't affect the overall progression of the pandemic hugely, because x(j) << s(j) so the people taken out through dying don't affect the new infections much.
X(j) = X(j-1) + x(j)
we now have everything needed to calculate the number susceptible s(j)

The progression of the pandemic is an interplay between RT and the ratio of s(j)/P, i.e. those susceptible / size of population. Once s(j)/P becomes less than 1/RT, the pandemic will die out. Putting this another way, if there about 10% herd immunity, RT has to be above about 1.1 for the pandemic to grow. At the beginning of the pandemic, I read somewhere that R0, as conventionally defined in pandemic modelling, was 2.5 to 3 for this coronavirus. The new variant probably has an R0 of 3 to 4 it would seem (has anyone found any stats on that?). RT=1.35 seems to be appropriate to lockdown version 3 and the general (lack of?) adherence to it.

Yes, this is a pretty rough model. To test the effect of initial immunity I tried the following

test a) 0 % intial immunity, RT=1.36. Infection rate on Jan 8th is more than double the ONS value of 1.2 million. To get a reasonable fit, e.g. rms error in fit to infections less than 3%, RT has to be reduced to 1.22

test b) 20% intial immunity, RT=1.36. Infection rate on Jan 8th is about half the ONS value of 1.2million. To get a reasonable fit, RT needs to be increased to 1.54, to give an rms error of about 3%.

The model behaved more or less as I would expect, which is reassuring. In all cases it is tending to overestimate the infections earlier on in December and approaches the ONS value both at the beginning and the end of the period for which the stats are available. This suggests that RT is actually varying slightly with lockdowns and as Christmas came and went.

There should be at least some degree of herd immunity, but I think that 20% initial immunity (averaged over all of England) is probably too high as it requires an unrealistically large value for RT.

Next step I will maybe add some graphics to the spreadsheet. I might also turn the spreadsheet's algorithm into a proper program, e.g. Pascal or Python, where it would be easier to run sensitivity tests, if I can be bothered.

regards,
S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376244

Postby spasmodicus » January 12th, 2021, 1:56 pm

johnhemming wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:NOTES ON THE MODEL
Assuming an IFR of 1%

Apart from dealtn's point about susceptibility there is a range of views as to what the IFR is. The IFR also depends upon how people catch the infection. If someone is on a tube train journey and catches if from five people that is likely to be worse than catching it once breathing in small amount of the virus in a supermarket or a school, for example.

That is one reason why IFRs vary so widely (from as low as 0.1 or 0.2% upwards). You can work back from hospital admissions or fatalities then to get a number of infections.

There is another way of calculating infection rates which is to have a doubling time and a start date.

All of these really require modelling that has some form of sensitivity.

On the other hand we know some areas in the UK had herd immunity in August (some Inner London areas for example) Given the size of the population served by those trust areas we can work back to the number of hospital admissions that imply herd immunity.


Hi John,
thanks for those observations, your points are well taken. In the context of this model the IFR is that figure which best explains the relationship between estimated new infections and (delayed) actual new deaths. In earlier fiddlings with the model, I came up with a best fit with IFR of about1.0, but currenly I am using 0.9 to best fit the (constantly updated by ONS) deaths figures

I think that the model's predictive power for deaths is quite limited, as with increasing vaccination the high percentage of deaths from older age groups will be greatly reduced, so that the IFR (by the defintion above) should reduce. There are stats out there which would make it possible to have a stab at calculating the rate at which the IFR would decline, but I am not sure that it adds very much to what I was aiming to do, which was to forecast when the pandemic would be declining to the point where lockdowns might be relaxed. What the criteria will be for that is anybody's guess, but the death rate obviously needs to fall significantly to maybe 300/day or less and falling. I think that the final death toll is likely to be over 100,000.

regards,
S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376249

Postby johnhemming » January 12th, 2021, 2:01 pm

spasmodicus wrote:In the context of this model the IFR is that figure which best explains the relationship between estimated new infections and (delayed) actual new deaths.

Thanks. However, I don't think there is that reliable a mechanism of measuring infections. The prevalence testing does not give this.

Hence I think the most reliable is admissions/deaths.

An alternative is doubling period and start date(s), but that has all sorts of unreliability.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376267

Postby spasmodicus » January 12th, 2021, 3:20 pm

johnhemming wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:In the context of this model the IFR is that figure which best explains the relationship between estimated new infections and (delayed) actual new deaths.

Thanks. However, I don't think there is that reliable a mechanism of measuring infections. The prevalence testing does not give this.

Hence I think the most reliable is admissions/deaths.

An alternative is doubling period and start date(s), but that has all sorts of unreliability.


Yes, it's complicated. I looked at hospital admissions as well, to see if I could work back from those to get an infections figure, in the same way that Scotia worked back from deaths to get admissions (this thread passim). He showed a clear relationship, even though ONS stats show that a considerable number of people actually die at home from covid 19 and it's unclear how those might relate to admissions. Maybe in times of high infection, people are scared to go to hospital? Anyway, recent figures on first glance seem too scattered to see a clear relationship between hospital admissions and population wide testing results. The ONS weekly figures on estimated infections over the whole population are based on random testing and come with error bars, so they must have some relevance to actual infection rates. Daily testing results are of course skewed for various reasons, as tests tend to be done on "at risk" sectors, or those who have been in contact with infected people. I might take a closer look at this.

IFR ultimately determines the relationship between infection and death. The deaths figure is pretty clear and, at least in this country, the stats seem to be reasonably reliable. Over the whole pandemic, 80,000 deaths in a population of 56 million, infected to a level of 10% would suggest an IFR of 1.43% (80000/5600000), over the whole pandemic in England. An IFR of 1% would suggest that only 5.6 million have been infected in total, so to that extent my model parameters are internally inconsistent. I might also have a look at the early stages of the pandemic to try to resolve this, as most would agree that the IFR should fall as we get better at treating covid patients.

S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376275

Postby spasmodicus » January 12th, 2021, 3:31 pm

spasmodicus wrote: An IFR of 1% would suggest that only 5.6 million have been infected in total, so to that extent my model parameters are internally inconsistent. I might also have a look at the early stages of the pandemic to try to resolve this, as most would agree that the IFR should fall as we get better at treating covid patients.



oops, that's not right. It should read that IFR of 1% would suggest 80,000 x 100 = 8 million which is more than the 5.6 million that I used in the model.

S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376276

Postby swill453 » January 12th, 2021, 3:31 pm

spasmodicus wrote:IFR ultimately determines the relationship between infection and death. The deaths figure is pretty clear and, at least in this country, the stats seem to be reasonably reliable. Over the whole pandemic, 80,000 deaths in a population of 56 million, infected to a level of 10% would suggest an IFR of 1.43% (80000/5600000), over the whole pandemic in England. An IFR of 1% would suggest that only 5.6 million have been infected in total, so to that extent my model parameters are internally inconsistent. I might also have a look at the early stages of the pandemic to try to resolve this, as most would agree that the IFR should fall as we get better at treating covid patients.

On another thread redsturgeon gave an ONS figure of 12.4 million total infected in the UK viewtopic.php?f=63&t=21581&p=375800#p375786

On a population of 66 million that would be 18.8%.

Scott.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376279

Postby johnhemming » January 12th, 2021, 3:37 pm

spasmodicus wrote: The ONS weekly figures on estimated infections over the whole population are based on random testing and come with error bars, so they must have some relevance to actual infection rates.

I haven't looked recently but the ONS were testing the same panel each week for some time. That enabled picking up when people first tested positive, but I think there were some problems with this.

spasmodicus wrote:IFR ultimately determines the relationship between infection and death. The deaths figure is pretty clear and, at least in this country, the stats seem to be reasonably reliable.

I agree that we can rely on the deaths figure. Admissions are roughly four times that. However, we continue to have a lot of problems getting reliable figures for infections. Admissions are more timely (unsurprisingly).

One thing the government do which is quite clever is to report infections by the ten thousand in some documents and by the hundred thousand in other ones. That makes it mildly harder to spot that the government's figures don't actually reconcile.

One a purely personal basis I don't mind a lot of the lock down restrictions because the way I am living my life at the moment fits in quite comfortably. However, I am really unhappy about the numerical basis of the government's analysis and the policies seem really erratic and not properly evidenced. Hence I sort of take the view that we will get through this relatively soon mainly because of the virus infecting people, but also because of the vaccine. I would personally prefer the schools were open, but they always have been a vector for infecting parents anyway.

It is very easy to understand why the government's "cases" figure is garbage. Simply ask yourself the question as to when someone was infected if they test positive.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376316

Postby dealtn » January 12th, 2021, 5:02 pm

spasmodicus wrote:
dealtn wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:
NOTES ON THE MODEL
The first parameter to decide is the % of the population which have immunity. There are various ways of going about this. Assuming an IFR of 1%, with the cumulative death figures since the beginning of the pandemic, for everone that died, 99 would survive , so in a populationof 56.3 million, 9.4% or over 5 million would have survived and might have become immune as a result. The ONS publishes figures for population antibody testing which suggest that in Nov 2020 a median figure of 8.7% of the population had antibodies.Their table also shows some decay of those showing antibodies from 7.4% to 5.5% between the first wave in May and August 2020.
The ONS figures exclude those under 16 and there is also uncertainty about the role antibodies play and how general immunity lasts in survivors of covid19 infection. I concluded that 10% would be a reasonable (minimum) figure for the immune population .



it looks like you are using a susceptibility rate of 100%.

As you say the first parameter is to decide the % of the population that have immunity. Your assumption appears to be that immunity only comes about if you have antibodies, which might arise presumably either from prior infection, or vaccination. As such your model is looking at a 100% susceptibility worse case scenario. Maybe that is no bad thing if that's what is intended, but if it is for practical, or predictive purposes, might it not make sense to relax the 100% susceptibility start point, and consider other immunity groups?


Hi there,
In a word, no. It's difficult to go into all the nuances of such in the relatively short notes that I wrote. For simplicity I am using a model in which parameters like RT and IFR do not vary with time, which restricts modelling to periods when these things don't change much. It would be quite simple to make these parameters time variant, as inputs, but one would have to decide how to vary them, increasing complication and the danger of over-fitting. In the model, the susceptible population is calculated from a fixed starting value, e.g. 90% of the population, which had to be decided on some rational basis. Whilst I accpet that some areas of the country may have achieved herd immunity, we are talking here about an average over the whole of England. One could,of course, run the such a model region by region, but this would require a lot of extra work in finding and setting the appropriate parameters.

So the initial estimate that I used for the whole of England is that 90% of the population P was susceptible on Dec 2nd.


That's fine, I understand the workings of your model.

However assuming 100% susceptibility at outset, and 90% remaining may not be reflective, and in a non-linear model adjustments to those assumptions can have huge differences. I appreciate you are looking to model when change is sufficient for restrictions to begin to be lifted, rather than when the last death occurs, the pandemic ends, or number of deaths, but there is still potential large variance.

Some postulate only 80% susceptibility to begin with. So a population of 50 million, with 100% susceptibility at outset and 10% now "immune" has 45 million potential waiting to be infected. 80% initial susceptibility and the same 5 million having been infected has just 35 million. (80% susceptibility and 10 million infected just 30 million).

If someone has it in Scenario 1 (yours) they can potentially pass it onto 45/50 or 90% of anyone they come into contact with, the other scenarios are 70% and 60%. There will be a big difference between the 90% and 60% possibilities, and onwards as "immunity" increases and those % possibilities reduce further.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376455

Postby spasmodicus » January 13th, 2021, 8:32 am

swill453 wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:IFR ultimately determines the relationship between infection and death. The deaths figure is pretty clear and, at least in this country, the stats seem to be reasonably reliable. Over the whole pandemic, 80,000 deaths in a population of 56 million, infected to a level of 10% would suggest an IFR of 1.43% (80000/5600000), over the whole pandemic in England. An IFR of 1% would suggest that only 5.6 million have been infected in total, so to that extent my model parameters are internally inconsistent. I might also have a look at the early stages of the pandemic to try to resolve this, as most would agree that the IFR should fall as we get better at treating covid patients.

On another thread redsturgeon gave an ONS figure of 12.4 million total infected in the UK viewtopic.php?f=63&t=21581&p=375800#p375786

On a population of 66 million that would be 18.8%.

Scott.


Hi all,

When I click the link above, I am rewarded with the message "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Any ideas as to where I can see where this figure of 12.4 million came from?

S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376457

Postby swill453 » January 13th, 2021, 8:46 am

spasmodicus wrote:
swill453 wrote:On another thread redsturgeon gave an ONS figure of 12.4 million total infected in the UK viewtopic.php?f=63&t=21581&p=375800#p375786

On a population of 66 million that would be 18.8%.
When I click the link above, I am rewarded with the message "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Any ideas as to where I can see where this figure of 12.4 million came from?

It's on the Polite Discussions board which you have to subscribe to.

However the 12.4 million figure is reported here https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... lling-says

Scott.

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376500

Postby spasmodicus » January 13th, 2021, 10:21 am

swill453 wrote:
spasmodicus wrote:
swill453 wrote:On another thread redsturgeon gave an ONS figure of 12.4 million total infected in the UK viewtopic.php?f=63&t=21581&p=375800#p375786

On a population of 66 million that would be 18.8%.
When I click the link above, I am rewarded with the message "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Any ideas as to where I can see where this figure of 12.4 million came from?

It's on the Polite Discussions board which you have to subscribe to.

However the 12.4 million figure is reported here https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... lling-says

Scott.


thanks, I'll take a look.

Back to the model, I plotted the curves for zero immunity and 20% immunity, as reported earlier as tests A and B.

Image

test A shows peak infections of 1490405 occurring on 1st February
test B shows peak infections of 1364842 occurring on 24th January

So, only about a weeks difference.
I don’t expect vaccination to have a huge effect on this.

Note that the curves are almost identical up to 12/01/21, i.e. the present day, where tthey start to diverge. Up to this divergence, they are fitted to the six weekly infections data points available from the ONS.

S

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Re: Coronavirus - Modelling Aspects Only

#376501

Postby johnhemming » January 13th, 2021, 10:23 am

spasmodicus wrote:When I click the link above, I am rewarded with the message "You are not authorised to read this forum.". Any ideas as to where I can see where this figure of 12.4 million came from?

There was a figure produced by Edge Health which gave this figure. Whether the ONS reported the same figure or calculated a figure separately I don't know.

It was reported in The Guardian here:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/ng-in ... lling-says


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