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An independent Scotland and COVID19

The home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
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This is the home for all non-political Coronavirus (Covid-19) discussions on The Lemon Fool
Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340259

Postby Nimrod103 » September 14th, 2020, 5:53 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:As to working hours, you seem to despise hard work? It is mainly the Chinese culture of striving to do well, and ensure your family (and the country as a whole) succeeds. If only we still had that work ethic here, especially in our public servants.

We should go back to the '16 hours a day 6 days a week' that factory workers experienced in the 19th century. None of this namby-pamby weekday leisure time and 2 day weekends. Make Britain great again.

Not us of course, obviously, just the 'others'...


Methinks you are over-reacting a bit.
It would be good if certain people worked a bit harder:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... h-readers/

SteMiS
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340272

Postby SteMiS » September 14th, 2020, 7:04 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:As to working hours, you seem to despise hard work? It is mainly the Chinese culture of striving to do well, and ensure your family (and the country as a whole) succeeds. If only we still had that work ethic here, especially in our public servants.

We should go back to the '16 hours a day 6 days a week' that factory workers experienced in the 19th century. None of this namby-pamby weekday leisure time and 2 day weekends. Make Britain great again.

Not us of course, obviously, just the 'others'...


Methinks you are over-reacting a bit.
It would be good if certain people worked a bit harder:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... h-readers/

For a second I thought that was going to be about Boris Johnson...

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340274

Postby Nimrod103 » September 14th, 2020, 7:16 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:We should go back to the '16 hours a day 6 days a week' that factory workers experienced in the 19th century. None of this namby-pamby weekday leisure time and 2 day weekends. Make Britain great again.

Not us of course, obviously, just the 'others'...


Methinks you are over-reacting a bit.
It would be good if certain people worked a bit harder:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... h-readers/

For a second I thought that was going to be about Boris Johnson...


AIUI GPs get paid a great deal more than MPs.

SteMiS
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340276

Postby SteMiS » September 14th, 2020, 7:39 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
Methinks you are over-reacting a bit.
It would be good if certain people worked a bit harder:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/0 ... h-readers/

For a second I thought that was going to be about Boris Johnson...


AIUI GPs get paid a great deal more than MPs.

Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340282

Postby Nimrod103 » September 14th, 2020, 8:25 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:For a second I thought that was going to be about Boris Johnson...


AIUI GPs get paid a great deal more than MPs.

Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant


Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

SteMiS
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340306

Postby SteMiS » September 14th, 2020, 9:51 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
AIUI GPs get paid a great deal more than MPs.

Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant


Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

https://fullfact.org/law/how-much-does- ... -get-paid/

The Prime Minister is paid £150,402 a year. This includes the basic salary for a member of parliament which is currently £74,962. It doesn't factor in the value of the Prime Minister's flat in Downing Street, or her other official residences.

That was 2017.

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340308

Postby Nimrod103 » September 14th, 2020, 9:57 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant


Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

https://fullfact.org/law/how-much-does- ... -get-paid/

The Prime Minister is paid £150,402 a year. This includes the basic salary for a member of parliament which is currently £74,962. It doesn't factor in the value of the Prime Minister's flat in Downing Street, or her other official residences.

That was 2017.


£150,000 (the top politician's pay) is still a lot less than £200,000 (the top GPs' pay). I think calculated on a £/hour worked would see the average GP paid at a much higher rate than the Prime Minister.
Expenses and work residences I discount for both professions as they are entirely for use in connection with the job.

SteMiS
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340312

Postby SteMiS » September 14th, 2020, 10:14 pm

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

https://fullfact.org/law/how-much-does- ... -get-paid/

The Prime Minister is paid £150,402 a year. This includes the basic salary for a member of parliament which is currently £74,962. It doesn't factor in the value of the Prime Minister's flat in Downing Street, or her other official residences.

That was 2017.


£150,000 (the top politician's pay) is still a lot less than £200,000 (the top GPs' pay). I think calculated on a £/hour worked would see the average GP paid at a much higher rate than the Prime Minister.
Expenses and work residences I discount for both professions as they are entirely for use in connection with the job.

As poor a defence of Johnson being a part time, workshy PM as I think I've seen. I mean you can't even get your facts right. I'm sure Johnson's earning potential have been massively increased by his tenure as PM but regardless, the idea that Johnson can't put a full shift in because he's (on some flaky analysis) paid less than some doctor somewhere is incredible...

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340315

Postby Nimrod103 » September 14th, 2020, 10:24 pm

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:https://fullfact.org/law/how-much-does- ... -get-paid/

The Prime Minister is paid £150,402 a year. This includes the basic salary for a member of parliament which is currently £74,962. It doesn't factor in the value of the Prime Minister's flat in Downing Street, or her other official residences.

That was 2017.


£150,000 (the top politician's pay) is still a lot less than £200,000 (the top GPs' pay). I think calculated on a £/hour worked would see the average GP paid at a much higher rate than the Prime Minister.
Expenses and work residences I discount for both professions as they are entirely for use in connection with the job.

As poor a defence of Johnson being a part time, workshy PM as I think I've seen. I mean you can't even get your facts right. I'm sure Johnson's earning potential have been massively increased by his tenure as PM but regardless, the idea that Johnson can't put a full shift in because he's (on some flaky analysis) paid less than some doctor somewhere is incredible...


Can you spell out the facts I have got wrong?

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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340337

Postby servodude » September 15th, 2020, 7:38 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
£150,000 (the top politician's pay) is still a lot less than £200,000 (the top GPs' pay). I think calculated on a £/hour worked would see the average GP paid at a much higher rate than the Prime Minister.
Expenses and work residences I discount for both professions as they are entirely for use in connection with the job.

As poor a defence of Johnson being a part time, workshy PM as I think I've seen. I mean you can't even get your facts right. I'm sure Johnson's earning potential have been massively increased by his tenure as PM but regardless, the idea that Johnson can't put a full shift in because he's (on some flaky analysis) paid less than some doctor somewhere is incredible...


Can you spell out the facts I have got wrong?


Just using your facts for this thread?

Well you used your quoted "average" GP salary of 90k as your lower limit for comparison with MPs
- which if that wasn't a mistake was certainly tendentious

TBH though that figure itself seems a bit on the high side

- e.g. https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... ner/Salary would put the figure at £65,128

- or https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profile ... ice-doctor
Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience.


- so perhaps, just perhaps you might actually be a little bit incorrect in your figures to begin?
just possibly?

stay well
- sd

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340356

Postby Nimrod103 » September 15th, 2020, 9:12 am

servodude wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:As poor a defence of Johnson being a part time, workshy PM as I think I've seen. I mean you can't even get your facts right. I'm sure Johnson's earning potential have been massively increased by his tenure as PM but regardless, the idea that Johnson can't put a full shift in because he's (on some flaky analysis) paid less than some doctor somewhere is incredible...


Can you spell out the facts I have got wrong?


Just using your facts for this thread?

Well you used your quoted "average" GP salary of 90k as your lower limit for comparison with MPs
- which if that wasn't a mistake was certainly tendentious

TBH though that figure itself seems a bit on the high side

- e.g. https://www.payscale.com/research/UK/Jo ... ner/Salary would put the figure at £65,128

- or https://www.prospects.ac.uk/job-profile ... ice-doctor
Salaried general practitioners (GPs) earn £58,808 to £88,744 depending on the length of service and experience.


- so perhaps, just perhaps you might actually be a little bit incorrect in your figures to begin?
just possibly?

stay well
- sd[/quote

No my figures are correct.
But it seems reasonable to compare an average MP with and average GP
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... ay-boosts/

If you want to compare the Prime Minister with a GP, you have to use the top paid GPs.
Seems only reasonable. Otherwise one might be accused of cherry picking the data.

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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340359

Postby SteMiS » September 15th, 2020, 9:20 am

Nimrod103 wrote:If you want to compare the Prime Minister with a GP, you have to use the top paid GPs.
Seems only reasonable. Otherwise one might be accused of cherry picking the data.

You mean like comparing a doctors salary against that of an MP, even though Johnson get's paid considerably more?

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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340368

Postby BellaHubby » September 15th, 2020, 10:06 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
AIUI GPs get paid a great deal more than MPs.

Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant


Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

It might be interesting to compare the requirements for education, training and ongoing compliance to standards. As far as I can see, anyone can be an MP if they are a member of a mainstream party and know how to work the internal party system to become their candidate. No qualifications or skills are required

bh

Nimrod103
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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340370

Postby Nimrod103 » September 15th, 2020, 10:28 am

SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:If you want to compare the Prime Minister with a GP, you have to use the top paid GPs.
Seems only reasonable. Otherwise one might be accused of cherry picking the data.

You mean like comparing a doctors salary against that of an MP, even though Johnson get's paid considerably more?


Johnson, the best paid politician, gets paid considerably less than the best paid GPs, over 200 of them.
The average MP gets paid considerably less than the average GP.

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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340382

Postby Charlottesquare » September 15th, 2020, 11:00 am

BellaHubby wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:Even if that was true (which it isn't) I don't see how it is relevant


Google
How much does a GP earn a year UK?
The average GP earns an average salary of £90,000, but doctors can earn more by linking up surgeries, making record earnings by managing tens of thousands of patients. Figures revealed more than 200 'Super GPs' in the NHS earned more than £200,000 a year in 2015/16


The basic annual salary of a Member of Parliament (MP) in the House of Commons is £81,932, as of April 2020.

So £90-200,000 for fixed hours and a job for life, versus £82,000 for unsocial hours and uncertain future.

You made the comparison of lazy doctor vs allegedly lazy politician.

It might be interesting to compare the requirements for education, training and ongoing compliance to standards. As far as I can see, anyone can be an MP if they are a member of a mainstream party and know how to work the internal party system to become their candidate. No qualifications or skills are required

bh


As is often very evident, but why should they need them, remember the regard experts are held in; surely knowing things would actually hold them back, after all talking b*llocks is not lying providing one is ignorant enough not to know the truth.

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Re: An independent Scotland and COVID19

#340385

Postby SteMiS » September 15th, 2020, 11:06 am

Nimrod103 wrote:
SteMiS wrote:
Nimrod103 wrote:If you want to compare the Prime Minister with a GP, you have to use the top paid GPs.
Seems only reasonable. Otherwise one might be accused of cherry picking the data.

You mean like comparing a doctors salary against that of an MP, even though Johnson get's paid considerably more?


Johnson, the best paid politician, gets paid considerably less than the best paid GPs, over 200 of them.
The average MP gets paid considerably less than the average GP.

Your comparison is meaningless (even allowing for your earlier implication that Johnson just earned the salary of an MP). If it were true then we'd be grateful if those on minimun wage just popped their heads round the door occassionally at their work places...


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