The vaccine

[dealtn]

...The anecdote of the ICU doctor suggests either non-qualified, poorly trained, or just ineffective nurses, performing the role.

Or perhaps bad handling before it actually gets to the professionals doing the jabbing?

Yes you are right. Going back to the anecdote it was concerning the preparation/storing etc. not the injection practice itself.

This suggests it is the Pfizer vaccine. The AZN vaccine from what I know appears little different to a mass produced, fridge stored, vaccine such as used for many long standing inoculation programmes. It shouldn't be difficult to manufacture and store, although as a "new" vaccine I think the batch testing regime is still more rigorous than other vaccines.

I would be surprised if there was an systemic failure in the vaccine at the point of injection (pun unintended).

[terminal7]

Just received text from GP surgery - click link to get a jab - offered 2 locations one 10 minutes away the other 25 mins - both by foot. Clicked link and booked for this Wednesday. Confirmation by return.

Actually always knew Boris would come through, that Brexit would be wonderful - please disregard any comments by me on other threads - all fake news.

T7 (75 years young)

[tjh290633]

Phone call at lunchtime offering us both an appointment. I already had one, but my other half needs hers, so she is booked in Monday evening. They have obviously had another delivery. I shall find out which vaccine tonight.

TJH

[Itsallaguess]

Matt Hancock - 'I'm delighted that over half of all over-80s have been vaccinated' -

https://twitter.com/MattHancock/status/1350788697596297219?s=20

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Mike4]

...The anecdote of the ICU doctor suggests either non-qualified, poorly trained, or just ineffective nurses, performing the role.

Or perhaps bad handling before it actually gets to the professionals doing the jabbing?

Yes that's exactly what he is saying. The jabbers are jabbing with jab juice that has been spoiled by imperfect preparation. I dunno who does the prepping but I doubt it is the jabbers. Or mebbe it is. He sort of implied that if the prepping was done slightly wrong it would be spoiled and ineffective, but they went ahead, hoped for the best and used it anyway rather than fess up and scrap a whole batch.

[servodude]

...The anecdote of the ICU doctor suggests either non-qualified, poorly trained, or just ineffective nurses, performing the role.

Or perhaps bad handling before it actually gets to the professionals doing the jabbing?

Yes that's exactly what he is saying. The jabbers are jabbing with jab juice that has been spoiled by imperfect preparation. I dunno who does the prepping but I doubt it is the jabbers. Or mebbe it is. He sort of implied that if the prepping was done slightly wrong it would be spoiled and ineffective, but they went ahead, hoped for the best and used it anyway rather than fess up and scrap a whole batch.

that doesn't sound good but I guess it was somewhat expected if one of your vaccine candidates needs to be stored in unobtanium at about 200degK

I hope there's enough rigour going on that the ongoing monitoring of this isn't impacted in a way that fuels the "ahm no getting jabbed" contingent
- the stories from Norway are bad enough in that respect

- sd

[Mike4]

Or perhaps bad handling before it actually gets to the professionals doing the jabbing?

Yes that's exactly what he is saying. The jabbers are jabbing with jab juice that has been spoiled by imperfect preparation. I dunno who does the prepping but I doubt it is the jabbers. Or mebbe it is. He sort of implied that if the prepping was done slightly wrong it would be spoiled and ineffective, but they went ahead, hoped for the best and used it anyway rather than fess up and scrap a whole batch.

that doesn't sound good but I guess it was somewhat expected if one of your vaccine candidates needs to be stored in unobtanium at about 200degK

I hope there's enough rigour going on that the ongoing monitoring of this isn't impacted in a way that fuels the "ahm no getting jabbed" contingent
- the stories from Norway are bad enough in that respect

- sd

If he is right and the same story is unfolding across the land, an underperformance of the Pfizer will begin to show up in the stats. There are bound to be careful records taken of the vaccination status of everyone landing in hospital with COVID as time passes.

The reason Dr Campbell says if he gets a choice he would choose the AZ vaccine every time over the Pfizer or Moderna is that there is apparently no record of anyone getting AZ ever getting COVID so badly they needed hospital treatment.

I'm guessing he says this because the trials data show this - there can't have been enough time for us to divine this from the public roll-out.

[servodude]

Yes that's exactly what he is saying. The jabbers are jabbing with jab juice that has been spoiled by imperfect preparation. I dunno who does the prepping but I doubt it is the jabbers. Or mebbe it is. He sort of implied that if the prepping was done slightly wrong it would be spoiled and ineffective, but they went ahead, hoped for the best and used it anyway rather than fess up and scrap a whole batch.

that doesn't sound good but I guess it was somewhat expected if one of your vaccine candidates needs to be stored in unobtanium at about 200degK

I hope there's enough rigour going on that the ongoing monitoring of this isn't impacted in a way that fuels the "ahm no getting jabbed" contingent
- the stories from Norway are bad enough in that respect

- sd

If he is right and the same story is unfolding across the land, an underperformance of the Pfizer will begin to show up in the stats. There are bound to be careful records taken of the vaccination status of everyone landing in hospital with COVID as time passes.

The reason Dr Campbell says if he gets a choice he would choose the AZ vaccine every time over the Pfizer or Moderna is that there is apparently no record of anyone getting AZ ever getting COVID so badly they needed hospital treatment.

I'm guessing he says this because the trials data show this - there can't have been enough time for us to divine this from the public roll-out.

Yes that was one of the few clear results in the AZ papers
- no matter what dose they gave you or how far apart no-one needed hospital in their testing cohort
- assuming a similar demographic in the other vaccines' test groups that is very promising

as is the fact its less likely to perish (so you'll get what's written on the tin)

- sd

[look]

About the BAT - kentucky Bio processing vacine.

When the corona began, almost immediately the BAT owned kentucky Bio Processing began to search for its tobacco based vaccine. I remember they say that in July 2020 they could produce some million vaccines if approved. What happened is that only in december they get approval for phase1 test in humans.

The ships are often registered in Liberia or other countries to save money. Why don't the pharma companies test and begin to sell its medicines in friendly contries? Not one did this, it seems. There are more than 200 countries in the world.

[Lootman]

Yes that's exactly what he is saying. The jabbers are jabbing with jab juice that has been spoiled by imperfect preparation. I dunno who does the prepping but I doubt it is the jabbers. Or mebbe it is. He sort of implied that if the prepping was done slightly wrong it would be spoiled and ineffective, but they went ahead, hoped for the best and used it anyway rather than fess up and scrap a whole batch.

that doesn't sound good but I guess it was somewhat expected if one of your vaccine candidates needs to be stored in unobtanium at about 200degK

I hope there's enough rigour going on that the ongoing monitoring of this isn't impacted in a way that fuels the "ahm no getting jabbed" contingent
- the stories from Norway are bad enough in that respect

If he is right and the same story is unfolding across the land, an underperformance of the Pfizer will begin to show up in the stats. There are bound to be careful records taken of the vaccination status of everyone landing in hospital with COVID as time passes.

The reason Dr Campbell says if he gets a choice he would choose the AZ vaccine every time over the Pfizer or Moderna is that there is apparently no record of anyone getting AZ ever getting COVID so badly they needed hospital treatment.

I'm guessing he says this because the trials data show this - there can't have been enough time for us to divine this from the public roll-out.

And yet the efficacy numbers quoted from the trials all have the Pfizer and Moderna jabs with better percentage numbers than AZN. So someone here is telling porkies.

Has anyone had any jab and then become sick with Covid? I have not heard that reported.

I am sceptical that the UK is giving out dud vaccines. Is there any actual evidence for that or is it just the anecdotal rantings of a disillusioned over-worked medic? I am hardly a fan of the NHS but surely even they know how to store, transport and unpack vaccines. There are surely checks every step of the way? Or is the NHS really that shite these days?

[look]

I read the vaccine of pfizer is dangerous for old and weak people. I read in Norway 13 old persons died because of the vaccine.

[jfgw]

I read the vaccine of pfizer is dangerous for old and weak people. I read in Norway 13 old persons died because of the vaccine.

Doctors in Norway have been told to conduct more thorough evaluations of very frail elderly patients in line to receive the Pfizer BioNTec vaccine against covid-19, following the deaths of 23 patients shortly after receiving the vaccine.

“It may be a coincidence, but we aren’t sure,” Steinar Madsen, medical director of the Norwegian Medicines Agency (NOMA), told The BMJ...

More than 20 000 doses of the vaccine have been administered over the past few weeks in Norway and around 400 deaths normally occur among care home residents every week.

https://www.bmj.com/content/372/bmj.n149


Julian F. G. W.

[dealtn]

And yet the efficacy numbers quoted from the trials all have the Pfizer and Moderna jabs with better percentage numbers than AZN. So someone here is telling porkies.

Are they reported on the same basis and measuring the same thing?

Any links?

[terminal7]

Arb (and others) are rightfully concerned that:

On the serious point, it does worry me that tens of thousands of people are apparently being roped in to do this. Is there really time to give proper training?

There appears to be some concern in this board that my local plumber 'has been roped' in to join the volunteers.

Seriously, I would inform you that the system at a leading London teaching hospital (and I assume replicated elsewhere) is to request volunteers(through the hospital secure internet system) to firstly apply, then complete a number of forms on-line, then to attend a training session and finally be approved (or turned down sometime during the process). My wife is a semi-retired doctor and has just completed all the paperwork and is about to attend a training session some three weeks after receiving her first jab. From anecdotal evidence, she is aware of many practising and retired medical staff volunteering. Also, NHS admin staff (again retired and currently working) are volunteering for the admin tasks etc. The process does check out the bona fides of applicants. Needless to say, there will be 'interlopers' who may not be appropriate - but should be be eliminated.

Hopefully this can also go some way to countering 'I would like to love the NHS but . . ' - you can now love a lot of the staff.

T7

[Arborbridge]

I read a feature about the inection program in the Times this week, which had an interesting view:

this operation is the culmination of the British love of queuing.

Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, the Queen or a Duke or on benefits - you take your place in the queue. And I like the prolamation that you will not be allowed to pay to get a jab privately - this fits in so well with the British sense a fairness.


Arb

[UncleEbenezer]

I read a feature about the inection program in the Times this week, which had an interesting view:

this operation is the culmination of the British love of queuing.

Doesn't matter if you are rich or poor, the Queen or a Duke or on benefits - you take your place in the queue.

News a week or two ago, the Queen and her husband had been administered a jab.

By their private medical staff. No queueing.

And I like the prolamation that you will not be allowed to pay to get a jab privately - this fits in so well with the British sense a fairness.
Arb

Another news item: con-man charged with defrauding old woman by administering fake vaccine. Now *that's* a valid reason to say no to private vaccines for Joe Public.

[dealtn]

Another news item: con-man charged with defrauding old woman by administering fake vaccine. Now *that's* a valid reason to say no to private vaccines for Joe Public.

Which has got nothing to do with private vaccines (which are quite common for many vaccinations). He claimed to be administering a free vaccine on the NHS.

[UncleEbenezer]

Another news item: con-man charged with defrauding old woman by administering fake vaccine. Now *that's* a valid reason to say no to private vaccines for Joe Public.

Which has got nothing to do with private vaccines (which are quite common for many vaccinations). He claimed to be administering a free vaccine on the NHS.

Erm, the story I heard, he'd charged a three-figure sum for it. Hence the fraud. And my comment about private vaccines was meant to refer to this particularly topical one, not to vaccines in general.

[vrdiver]

Another news item: con-man charged with defrauding old woman by administering fake vaccine. Now *that's* a valid reason to say no to private vaccines for Joe Public.

Which has got nothing to do with private vaccines (which are quite common for many vaccinations). He claimed to be administering a free vaccine on the NHS.

Here's a link to the story: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-55577426
I think the point that Uncle is making is that going outside of the NHS is more likely to lead to fraudulent chancers trying to con worried people...

VRD

[dealtn]

Another news item: con-man charged with defrauding old woman by administering fake vaccine. Now *that's* a valid reason to say no to private vaccines for Joe Public.

Which has got nothing to do with private vaccines (which are quite common for many vaccinations). He claimed to be administering a free vaccine on the NHS.

Erm, the story I heard, he'd charged a three-figure sum for it. Hence the fraud. And my comment about private vaccines was meant to refer to this particularly topical one, not to vaccines in general.

Well maybe you needed to read the full story rather than the portion of it you heard.

He (allegedly, as he has subsequently pleaded not guilty and awaits trial) posed as an NHS employee, administered the "jab" and then demanded payment which was to be reimbursed by the NHS to the victim. He returned to try and receive additional payment too.

So nothing to do with a private vaccination, and an attempt to defraud the victim by pretending to be a part of the NHS.