The vaccine

[6Tricia]

Jackdaww - my post was to make the point that some doctors were giving the second jab at three weeks - not the then newly announced decision to extend it to twelve weeks. My friend's GP told her he had put her name forward because of her age, (85) and eyesight problems (macular degeneration and cataracts). I seldom visit my GP so even though I'm 87 he probably has patients who are a lot more vulnerable than I am.

Tricia

[Adamski]

Speaking to a friend who works in finance at a hospital. He is fit and healthy and has been given the vaccine. He is working from home not at hospital.

I've raised this issue before, and have no issue with front line staff getting the vaccine, but the nhs had 1.4 million staff. They seem to be prioritising their own staff over the over 80s who are at highest risk. I appreciate they are under huge pressure.

But I am sure there are plenty like my friend who are fit and healthy and behind a computer screen and many working from home, who have had the vaccine before the vulnerable. As mentioned in previous post even have silly people bragging on Facebook about having it, with no awareness that there are millions of elderly that very urgently need it.

Not seen this scandal mentioned in the media.

[Itsallaguess]

Speaking to a friend who works in finance at a hospital. He is fit and healthy and has been given the vaccine. He is working from home not at hospital.

I've raised this issue before, and have no issue with front line staff getting the vaccine, but the nhs had 1.4 million staff. They seem to be prioritising their own staff over the over 80s who are at highest risk. I appreciate they are under huge pressure.

But I am sure there are plenty like my friend who are fit and healthy and behind a computer screen and many working from home, who have had the vaccine before the vulnerable. As mentioned in previous post even have silly people bragging on Facebook about having it, with no awareness that there are millions of elderly that very urgently need it.

Not seen this scandal mentioned in the media.

I think it's important not to start assuming that there's perhaps worrying agendas going on just because we might hear of anecdotal instances like the example above.

It would be interesting to know just which vaccine they were given, because if it turned out to be the Pfizer one, then that might well explain why they might have been offered it, because the Pfizer vaccine only has a shelf-life of five days once it's thawed and placed in refrigerated storage, and if the particular vaccine your friend had was one that had started that 5-day shelf-life process, and perhaps the vulnerable person it was originally intended for didn't turn up for their appointment, we might perhaps begin to see how an NHS employee that can be asked to come into work at very short notice to receive that particular dose might be a better outcome for it than it perhaps going out of date and becoming useless for planned administration -

The Pfizer vaccine can survive for a further five days once thawed, Pfizer has said, but this does not buy a great deal of extra time.

In the longer-term, Public Health England says that in the UK "national preparations" are under way regarding both central storage and distribution of the vaccine across the country, but has not given details.

As it stands, extreme cold storage is certainly not commonplace, and your local GP is unlikely to have it.

Some institutions, such as universities and research labs, do have the right storage capacity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-54889084

We can't be sure if this is the case with your particular anecdotal story, but I just wanted to highlight that there may well be some justifiable circumstances where we might hear of 'non-vulnerable people' receiving some vaccine doses that might, on the face of it, seem strange if the above were perhaps not taken into account...

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[Dod101]

Speaking to a friend who works in finance at a hospital. He is fit and healthy and has been given the vaccine. He is working from home not at hospital.

I've raised this issue before, and have no issue with front line staff getting the vaccine, but the nhs had 1.4 million staff. They seem to be prioritising their own staff over the over 80s who are at highest risk. I appreciate they are under huge pressure.

But I am sure there are plenty like my friend who are fit and healthy and behind a computer screen and many working from home, who have had the vaccine before the vulnerable. As mentioned in previous post even have silly people bragging on Facebook about having it, with no awareness that there are millions of elderly that very urgently need it.

Not seen this scandal mentioned in the media.

I am getting close to what you call the 'most vulnerable. I am fit and well and seldom see my GP but many of my vintage are pretty well housebound anyway so why should they be given priority over the frontline NHS staff, if that is what you are suggesting? What are the most vulnerable over 80s going to be doing that they need urgent protection?. I walk most days but otherwise follow the guidelines about staying at home. If I had had the vaccine would my life change much? Of course not, not until the population in general has been vaccinated. As has been said on another thread, I am not suddenly going to be liberated.

Dod

[monabri]

My mother in law is 90 years old, insulin dependent diabetic (and other conditions). She has not had a vaccination. She had a fall yesterday and her doctor sent her to get checked out at the local hospital. She has not been told when she will receive "a jab" and my brother in law cannot get an approx date out of her doctor's surgery.

[Itsallaguess]

Some vaccine-related snippets from the Andrew Marr show this morning -

1. Vaccinated more people in the past week than the whole of December

2. Currently running at over 200,000 people per day being vaccinated.

3. Amongst the over 80's, who are the most vulnerable group, over a third of that particular cohort have currently received their first vaccine jab.

4. 'On course' to meet the target of delivering 2 million vaccines a week - sounds like a close trajectory rather than a current run-rate, however..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mowoIwJhuF4

Encouraging news, considering the clear strain that the whole of the NHS is currently under.

Cheers,

Itsallaguess

[servodude]

1. Vaccinated more people in the past week than the whole of December

And infinitely more than in June

-sd

[Bouleversee]

My mother in law is 90 years old, insulin dependent diabetic (and other conditions). She has not had a vaccination. She had a fall yesterday and her doctor sent her to get checked out at the local hospital. She has not been told when she will receive "a jab" and my brother in law cannot get an approx date out of her doctor's surgery.

That 's terrible. People of that age in my area were given the jab weeks ago and would have had the 2nd by now if not postponed but some immunity anyway. I had a fall during the first wave but refused to go to hospital for a check despite much urging, which proved to be the right.decision luckily. I do hope she will be ok.]

[dealtn]

1. Vaccinated more people in the past week than the whole of December

And infinitely more than in June

-sd

I appreciate the humour but technically not true.

The Oxford/AZN trial was in progress through June and subsets COV001 and COV002 were taking place in the UK then.

[servodude]

1. Vaccinated more people in the past week than the whole of December

And infinitely more than in June

-sd

I appreciate the humour but technically not true.

The Oxford/AZN trial was in progress through June and subsets COV001 and COV002 were taking place in the UK then.

Appreciated!

[UncleEbenezer]

That 's terrible. Some People of that age in my area were given the jab weeks ago and would have had the 2nd by now if not postponed but some immunity anyway. I had a fall during the first wave but refused to go to hospital for a check despite much urging, which proved to be the right.decision luckily. I do hope she will be ok.]

FTFY.

I doubt there's any area where everyone that age has got it, even for statistical values of everyone that exclude cases where there are problems.

The vaccine calculator is giving an estimate of Feb 2 to Feb 21 for a 95-year-old with an underlying health condition who has heard nothing from his GP and who isn't one to make a fuss, but would like to have it so he has the confidence to go out.

[gryffron]

I am getting close to what you call the 'most vulnerable. I am fit and well and seldom see my GP but many of my vintage are pretty well housebound anyway so why should they be given priority over the frontline NHS staff, if that is what you are suggesting? What are the most vulnerable over 80s going to be doing that they need urgent protection?

But the point is IF you get covid, you are likely to need a hospital bed, at great cost to the NHS and society in general. Whereas health staff, being generally younger, are less likely to be hospitalised.

My dad and stepmum (80+79) got their first jabs yesterday. Pfizer.

Gryff

[Dod101]

I am getting close to what you call the 'most vulnerable. I am fit and well and seldom see my GP but many of my vintage are pretty well housebound anyway so why should they be given priority over the frontline NHS staff, if that is what you are suggesting? What are the most vulnerable over 80s going to be doing that they need urgent protection?

But the point is IF you get covid, you are likely to need a hospital bed, at great cost to the NHS and society in general. Whereas health staff, being generally younger, are less likely to be hospitalised.

My dad and stepmum (80+79) got their first jabs yesterday. Pfizer.

Gryff

Yes I take that point but frontline NHS staff need the vaccine now and I would say in priority to oldies. We have the option of staying at home; the NHS staff do not. Not seeing my family? Well of course I want to see them, but not seeing them is not going to kill me.

Where as a matter of interest do your parents live? In Scotland where I am I think they are only starting on the over 80s tomorrow, unless of course you are in a care home.

Dod

[dealtn]

I am getting close to what you call the 'most vulnerable. I am fit and well and seldom see my GP but many of my vintage are pretty well housebound anyway so why should they be given priority over the frontline NHS staff, if that is what you are suggesting? What are the most vulnerable over 80s going to be doing that they need urgent protection?

But the point is IF you get covid, you are likely to need a hospital bed,

Really?

What percentage of people that "get Covid" go on to require a hospital bed (even in the older age groups)?

[gryffron]

Where as a matter of interest do your parents live?

Lincolnshire. Quite healthy and not in a care home.

But the point is IF you get covid, you are likely to need a hospital bed,

Really? What percentage of people that "get Covid" go on to require a hospital bed (even in the older age groups)?

Yawn! Alright "MORE likely". We have a place for people like you

Gryff

[dealtn]

Where as a matter of interest do your parents live?

Lincolnshire. Quite healthy and not in a care home.

But the point is IF you get covid, you are likely to need a hospital bed,

Really? What percentage of people that "get Covid" go on to require a hospital bed (even in the older age groups)?

Yawn! Alright "MORE likely". We have a place for people like you

Gryff

Ok, but it was actually a genuine question.

By knowing such how quickly does the "pressure on the NHS" likely subside as vaccines are being rolled out on the basis of those that have the most serious consequences if they get it (but might not be the likeliest to get it, or spread it) being prioritised?

[redsturgeon]

Where as a matter of interest do your parents live?

Lincolnshire. Quite healthy and not in a care home.

Really? What percentage of people that "get Covid" go on to require a hospital bed (even in the older age groups)?

Yawn! Alright "MORE likely". We have a place for people like you

Gryff

Ok, but it was actually a genuine question.

By knowing such how quickly does the "pressure on the NHS" likely subside as vaccines are being rolled out on the basis of those that have the most serious consequences if they get it (but might not be the likeliest to get it, or spread it) being prioritised?

https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulation ... 44%20years.

Hospital admission rate for people aged 85 years and over is almost 50 times higher than for those aged between 15 and 44 years
Even though more young people have been infected, hospital admissions and deaths involving the coronavirus (COVID-19) are highest among those aged over 65 years. Of more than 65,700 deaths involving COVID-19 in England to date, almost 90% were among people aged 65 years and over.

Hospital admissions increased among all groups aged 45 years and over in the week ending 13 December. Hospital admission rates increased the most among people aged 85 years and over, rising from 146.8 to 172.9 per 100,000 people. Rates have been the highest in this age group throughout the pandemic. Their hospital admission rate is almost 50 times higher than for those aged between 15 and 44 years. The hospital admission rate is lowest among children aged between 5 and 14 years, at 0.6 per 100,000 people.

[johnhemming]

Vaccination has the potential of a relatively rapid impact on hospital admissions.

[Bouleversee]

That 's terrible. Some People of that age in my area were given the jab weeks ago and would have had the 2nd by now if not postponed but some immunity anyway. I had a fall during the first wave but refused to go to hospital for a check despite much urging, which proved to be the right.decision luckily. I do hope she will be ok.]

FTFY.

I doubt there's any area where everyone that age has got it, even for statistical values of everyone that exclude cases where there are problems.

The vaccine calculator is giving an estimate of Feb 2 to Feb 21 for a 95-year-old with an underlying health condition who has heard nothing from his GP and who isn't one to make a fuss, but would like to have it so he has the confidence to go out.

It is a postcode lottery. The calculator said I would have mine mid Feb. but I had it on Dec. 31 at a day's notice, without any pushing from me. I was talking about my immediate local area where the jabs are carried out at the local hospital and the appointments arranged by the practice. I do know that they started with the eldest, regardless of any underlying conditions or marital status, several weeks ago and are now doing under 80s.

FWIW the 80 yr old mother of a neighbour who lives in Lincs. had her first jab on Dec. 19. I don't know whether she has had her 2nd or whether that has been postponed.

I think the system is changing now the AZN vaccine is available. I hear that people are getting letters asking them to phone to make an appt. which sounds a cumbersome and expensive way of doing it.

[Arborbridge]

I saw ghastly queues on the news the other night - they claimed to be waiting 2-3 hours, which stikes be as a darned sight more dangerous that walking along with a cup of coffee in Derbyshire - though cheaper.

No doubt the press picked one of the worst examples, and matters will improve dramatically as the system gets revved up. My 89 year old neighbour had hers in our local clinic around Christmas time and didn't mention a queue.

According to their website, there are about 3-4 weeks worth of over 80s in the area of the clinic, and that's without care workers, NHS staff etc (not sure if they have already been vaxed). Unless vaccine delivery is doubled or trebled (which they hope it will be) my 75 year old group will be well into Spring. Fingers crossed as that is when my three times postponed cruise is supposed to happen!
(I'm really in two minds about whether to postpone it again - each time I do the price increases, so it has become like a ponzi scheme)

Arb.