Study finds Vitamin D reduces Covid deaths by 60%

[onthemove]

I remembered I hadn't yet read the links in On the move's post 386755 so have now done so. So back in May of last year research had shown the link between Vitamin D deficiency and the over reaction of the immune system in the face of a Covid 19 infection but I didn't see anything about that in the newspapers or hear it on the radio, despite the fact that those studies involved the UK. What is the point of doing research if nobody takes any notice of it? I don't think our Covid patients were even being tested for Vitamin D levels. How many lives could have been saved if they had been and appropriate treatment given which would have been easy and cheap?

To be fair, that research was only observational, just looking at existing data for correlations, without any formal blinded trials or other controls or anything like that.

There have been similar studies suggesting the tuberculosis BCG vaccine might confer some cross immunity..

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 121433.htm
"Preliminary study suggests tuberculosis vaccine may be limiting COVID-19 deaths" (July 2020)

""In our initial research, we found that countries with high rates of BCG vaccinations had lower rates of mortality," explained Escobar,(…)
Escobar, working with NIH researchers Alvaro Molina-Cruz and Carolina Barillas-Mury, collected coronavirus mortality data from around the world. From that data, the team adjusted for variables, such as income, access to education and health services, population size and densities, and age distribution. Through all of the variables, a correlation held showing that countries with higher rates of BCG vaccinations had lower peak mortality rates from COVID-19."

But then later and a different group of researchers, but still another observational study...

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2 ... 115550.htm
"BCG vaccination in infancy does not protect against COVID-19, Swedish data indicate" (sept 2020)

"Using information from the Swedish public health agency, researchers determined that BCG vaccination during infancy does not protect against COVID-19. Their results suggest that other, related factors likely underlie the disparities between countries."

But more controlled trials are still underway to try to get a more definitive answer...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54465733

"Scientists in the UK have begun testing the BCG vaccine, developed in 1921, to see if it can save lives from Covid.
The vaccine was designed to stop tuberculosis, but there is some evidence it can protect against other infections as well. "

But it does underline that observational studies aren't usually considered definitive enough to determine treatment or prevention options for public health or in hospitals.

Returning to the vitamin D question, I believe there are / have been a number of more controlled trials now in relation to vitamin D - like the results reported in the OP - although from what I recall I think I've seen other reports that give different conclusions.

But I think some of that might be stemming from the question of at what point can vitamin D be given. I mean, if it's a deficiency that makes things worse, how long does it take to make up a deficiency? Genuine question, I don't know the answer. But I can imagine it might not be overnight. So potentially, if you're vitamin D deficient when you arrive at hospital, that might be too late to get the benefit.

For example...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1buEYW
"Vitamin D may not help with severe COVID-19 cases, contrary to what researchers thought"

"There's growing evidence that vitamin D could play an important role in preventing coronavirus infections or improving outcomes for patients.
But a new study found that a large dose of the nutrient didn't appear to reduce the severity of the disease, contrary to what previous studies have suggested. (…) They found that patients who received vitamin D didn't seem to show any improvements. They spent the same amount of time in the hospital, on average, compared to the placebo group, and were just as likely to need intensive care, ventilator treatment, or die of their illness.
That suggests vitamin D may not be an effective treatment for severe coronavirus, according to the researchers.(…)This latest study is the first double-blind randomized controlled trial (considered the gold standard for this kind of research) to test if vitamin D can help COVID-19 patients. "

[Bubblesofearth]

Returning to the vitamin D question, I believe there are / have been a number of more controlled trials now in relation to vitamin D - like the results reported in the OP - although from what I recall I think I've seen other reports that give different conclusions.

But I think some of that might be stemming from the question of at what point can vitamin D be given. I mean, if it's a deficiency that makes things worse, how long does it take to make up a deficiency? Genuine question, I don't know the answer. But I can imagine it might not be overnight. So potentially, if you're vitamin D deficient when you arrive at hospital, that might be too late to get the benefit.

For example...

https://www.msn.com/en-us/health/medica ... r-BB1buEYW
"Vitamin D may not help with severe COVID-19 cases, contrary to what researchers thought"

"There's growing evidence that vitamin D could play an important role in preventing coronavirus infections or improving outcomes for patients.
But a new study found that a large dose of the nutrient didn't appear to reduce the severity of the disease, contrary to what previous studies have suggested. (…) They found that patients who received vitamin D didn't seem to show any improvements. They spent the same amount of time in the hospital, on average, compared to the placebo group, and were just as likely to need intensive care, ventilator treatment, or die of their illness.
That suggests vitamin D may not be an effective treatment for severe coronavirus, according to the researchers.(…)This latest study is the first double-blind randomized controlled trial (considered the gold standard for this kind of research) to test if vitamin D can help COVID-19 patients. "

This study was carried out in Brazil where Vit D deficiency is likely to be very low.

Figures for the UK paint a different picture;

https://www.scotpho.org.uk/life-circums ... in-d/data/

As I live in Scotland I shall continue to take Vit D supplements.


BoE

[NeilW]

For those interested I've been doing a one man study on this:

My initial position.

https://new-wayland.com/blog/onward-to-100-nmol/

and my retest

https://new-wayland.com/blog/to-100-nmol-update/

I intend to do a further retest once the sun in the UK becomes strong enough based on the rule of thumb

"Vitamin D synthesis in skin occurs only when the UV index is three or higher, roughly the period around noon from March to October. A rule of thumb is that if your shadow is longer than you are, the sunlight is not intense enough."

It's quite scary how low your Vitamin D level gets.

NeilW

[vrdiver]

A randomised trial has been published by Spanish researchers, which looks pretty conclusive that high levels of vitamin D do indeed improve outcomes.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7456194/

For a discussion of this, there are a couple of excellent videos from Dr John Campbell: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oYK9-zvJF_k&t=105s and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uS2VObw1UeI

Nb. He differentiates between vitamin D levels required to avoid, say, rickets, and the much higher levels required to ensure an effective immune response.

VRD

[vrdiver]

For those interested I've been doing a one man study on this:

My initial position.

https://new-wayland.com/blog/onward-to-100-nmol/

and my retest

https://new-wayland.com/blog/to-100-nmol-update/

Thanks for posting these. I look forward to the next installment.

I was wondering if you've come across any evidence of how the uptake of vitamin D is correlated with the dosage? I.e. whether it is linear, (take twice as much, see double the levels) or drops off (so decreasing effectiveness of increasing dosage). Also, how much vitamin D is stored in fat, which would need to be "saturated" before the blood serum levels of vitamin D started to rise?

Is taking 2,000 IUs daily going to get the same result as 3,000 IUs, but just take a little longer, or is it more complicated?

VRD

[Mike4]

For those interested I've been doing a one man study on this:

My initial position.

https://new-wayland.com/blog/onward-to-100-nmol/

and my retest

https://new-wayland.com/blog/to-100-nmol-update/

I intend to do a further retest once the sun in the UK becomes strong enough based on the rule of thumb

"Vitamin D synthesis in skin occurs only when the UV index is three or higher, roughly the period around noon from March to October. A rule of thumb is that if your shadow is longer than you are, the sunlight is not intense enough."

It's quite scary how low your Vitamin D level gets.

NeilW

Neil,

Excellent experiment, thanks for posting.

I'm curious about why you elected to reduce your intake from 5,000 iu per day to 2,000 iu per day in October after getting the second result, which still hadn't met your goal of 100nmol/l.

I'm inclined to raise my intake though winter rather than reduce it as sunlight exposure reduces to near zero. Have you had a third test to see how your 2,000 iu per day regime is working out?

And one more question if I may, how and where did you obtain the tests please? I'm very inclined to get myself tested too.

[GrahamPlatt]

The “structural” components of our bodies are generally based on proteins. It can form very tough structures - e.g. tendons - but in it’s vanilla state remains pliable. Bone is formed by the bone cells (osteoblasts) exuding protein, laying down a framework which in the particular case of bone then becomes “mineralised” (same with teeth). This bone mineral is a calcium compound called hydroxyapatite. Another class of bone cells, osteoclasts, resorb bone and allow for remodelling - e.g. in response to mechanical stress.

Rickets occurs in children due to lack of vit D regulating the mineralisation of the developing, growing, bone. Because the bones remain bendy, children with severe rickets have visibly deformed limbs (and teeth). In adults, the shape of the bones is already established, but bones continue to metabolise throughout life - I understand that practically the whole skeleton is “refreshed” over the course of six months to a year. In the case of adults, this lack of mineralisation is perceived as vague aches and pains in the bones. It’s called osteomalacia.

I have a friend who worked for many years in Australia. Land of sun sea and sand. The Aussies are so sun-cancer conscious that they go to great lengths to avoid the sun. One year, she began to feel unwell, with vague aches and pains... yep, vit D deficiency.

[Lanark]

Looking at a variety of sources, the recommended range for vitamin D seems to be 50 ug (2000 IU) for younger/middle aged up to 100 ug (4000 IU) for older people. Higher doses are only for when in hospital with an active covid case.

Absorption of vitamin D is hugely affected by the level of body fat, the obese take much longer to build up vitamin levels as it all goes into the body fat before anywhere else.

The UK govt guideline of 10 ug (400 IU) seems a bit of a joke, I do wonder if someone got the decimal place wrong!

[swill453]

There have been a few Twitter threads pointing out flaws in this study:

https://twitter.com/fperrywilson/status ... 4271979523

https://twitter.com/DrDomPimenta/status ... 7922810880

Scott.

[NeilW]

I'm curious about why you elected to reduce your intake from 5,000 iu per day to 2,000 iu per day in October after getting the second result, which still hadn't met your goal of 100nmol/l.

The idea was to see if 2000iu would be sufficient to hold station through the winter. We shall find out when the sun gets to 45degrees in the sky, which where I am is sometime in the middle of April. At that point I'll get a retest.

In all of this I've erred on the side of caution. It's not clear when hyper calcification kicks in, and I don't want to push it.

And one more question if I may, how and where did you obtain the tests please? I'm very inclined to get myself tested too.

I use the Black Country Pathology Service which is based out of the City Hospital in Birmingham. It's the same test they use in the NHS, which at least gives some hope that the test is calibrated reasonably accurately. https://www.vitamindtest.org.uk

[Mike4]

The UK govt guideline of 10 ug (400 IU) seems a bit of a joke, I do wonder if someone got the decimal place wrong!

As has been pointed out recently several times over the last few days in the Vitamin D threads, this is the dose recommended for decades by the NHS, for prevention of rickets. So it isn't the decimal place wrong, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of this more recently discovered function of Vitamin D, in the department doing the recommending.

[swill453]

As has been pointed out recently several times over the last few days in the Vitamin D threads, this is the dose recommended for decades by the NHS, for prevention of rickets. So it isn't the decimal place wrong, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of this more recently discovered function of Vitamin D, in the department doing the recommending.

I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding, more that the science is quite new and it's not a settled opinion (unproven, in other words).

Scott.

[Mike4]

As has been pointed out recently several times over the last few days in the Vitamin D threads, this is the dose recommended for decades by the NHS, for prevention of rickets. So it isn't the decimal place wrong, it is a fundamental misunderstanding of this more recently discovered function of Vitamin D, in the department doing the recommending.

I wouldn't call it a misunderstanding, more that the science is quite new and it's not a settled opinion (unproven, in other words).

Scott.

There must be more to it than that though. The NHS, govt or whoever is sending out the 400 iu free doses is doing it to help prevent COVID, AIUI.

Or do you hold they are trying to reduce rickets in the population?

[swill453]

There must be more to it than that though. The NHS, govt or whoever is sending out the 400 iu free doses is doing it to help prevent COVID, AIUI.

Or do you hold they are trying to reduce rickets in the population?

They haven't consulted me in their decision process.

Scott.

[Bouleversee]

I think I am going to reply to the letter which came with my 100 tablets of 400 iu free pack (although it is just headed Department of Health and Social Care with no address) and query the instructions contained in it. It says: "Do not exceed the recommended dose (1 supplement per day containing 10 micrograms (ug) equivalent to 400 international units (IU). This is a safe level of intake, designed to meet your nutritional needs. Taking more is not currently recommended."

It then goes on to say: "For most people taking up to 100 micrograms (equivalent to 4000 iu) per day is considered safe. In a few people taking too many vitamin D supplements over a long period of time can causes too much calcium to build up in the body (hypercalcaemia). This can weaken the bones and damage the kidneys and the heart. Further information on vitamin D, including advice on intakes, is available online at: https://www.nhs.uk/conditios/vitamins-a ... /vitamin-D".

It also says that if your GP has prescribed a different dose you should follow their advice and warns that there are certain conditions for which it is not suitable and lists them, saying that if any applies to you, you should speak to your MP about this at your next appointment but it is not necessary to contact them prior to that.

So this is not an optimum dose but the highest dose they consider safe without knowing anything about you. I doubt it is going to save anyone's life or make much difference if they are seriously deficient. Does anyone know whether Dr John Campbell has raised the issue with the Dept. of Health and whether it is possible to contact him?

[NeilW]

I was wondering if you've come across any evidence of how the uptake of vitamin D is correlated with the dosage?

I haven't. Everything is as clear as mud, as it always seems to be with these medical studies.

I can only say what I've found, in that taking 5000IU per day for 8 weeks lifted my levels by 55 nmol/L

[Mike4]

There must be more to it than that though. The NHS, govt or whoever is sending out the 400 iu free doses is doing it to help prevent COVID, AIUI.

Or do you hold they are trying to reduce rickets in the population?

They haven't consulted me in their decision process.

Scott.

Go on.... I dare you to have a total stab in the dark. A man of your considerable intellect must have at least some sort of idea. Is it

A) Because the early research suggests D3 helps prevent COVID, or
B) because rickets is a growing concern in the population?

[swill453]

There must be more to it than that though. The NHS, govt or whoever is sending out the 400 iu free doses is doing it to help prevent COVID, AIUI.

Or do you hold they are trying to reduce rickets in the population?

They haven't consulted me in their decision process.

Go on.... I dare you to have a total stab in the dark. A man of your considerable intellect must have at least some sort of idea. Is it

A) Because the early research suggests D3 helps prevent COVID, or
B) because rickets is a growing concern in the population?

To be honest I didn't even know they were. I certainly haven't got mine.

Scott.

[dealtn]

I think I am going to reply to the letter which came with my 100 tablets of 400 iu free pack (although it is just headed Department of Health and Social Care with no address) and query the instructions contained in it. It says: "Do not exceed the recommended dose (1 supplement per day containing 10 micrograms (ug) equivalent to 400 international units (IU). This is a safe level of intake, designed to meet your nutritional needs. Taking more is not currently recommended."

So this is not an optimum dose but the highest dose they consider safe without knowing anything about you.

It's "a safe level of intake, designed to meet your nutritional needs" if that's what it says it is, surely.

You haven't quoted anything that says optimal dose, or highest dose, or anything about non-nutritional needs. In fact you quote something that suggests doctors, and those medically qualified, agree the dose could be higher.

[Bouleversee]

They haven't consulted me in their decision process.

Go on.... I dare you to have a total stab in the dark. A man of your considerable intellect must have at least some sort of idea. Is it

A) Because the early research suggests D3 helps prevent COVID, or
B) because rickets is a growing concern in the population?

To be honest I didn't even know they were. I certainly haven't got mine.

Scott.

They have only been sent to those on the clinically extremely vulnerable list, those who were ordered to shield, presumably not because they have rickets but in the context of Covid-19 so in the belief that there must be some benefit in that context.