The Lemon Fool

dealtn wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Peripherally, I wonder what the difference is between "pre-ordering", and "ordering" doses of vaccine.

Pre-ordering before approval, ordering after?

On reflection, it presumably means an order for future supply - with recognition that there isn't the capacity for immediate supply.

funduffer wrote:I am part of a trial - the Novavax vaccine, so I voted accordingly.
FD

Indeed, you mentioned your story in another thread, and that poll option was informed by it. Thanks for a vote outside the Usual Suspect options!

.

i had AZ at my GP surgery.

wife had pfizer at mass vac centre .

no preference - because we just dont know ..

after 3 weeks we should now have some protection against becoming badly ill .

we continue with masking / distancing - and will until most are vaccinated.

It would have been interesting to have had a question on how many doses we have had.

As regards whether one needs a vaccine if one has had Covid, we do know some people have had it twice which suggests that either it was a different variant or the immunity, after perhaps a mild dose of infection, doesn't last for very long. It did occur to me when reading those reports of studies/trials in Israel and Scotland that they were on health care workers in hospitals and I don't think they stated whether they had been infected previously; I should have thought many would and many more would have had it without even knowing (unless they have had daily PCR tests from day 1 of anyone being infected and hospitalised in either country and excluded from the trials if positive at any point), in which case would that not mean that their first jab was a bit like a second jab in some cases and could give them a higher level of immunity than others in the real, real world (who have avoided any chance of infection) would achieve after one jab? Health care workers are also not likely to be over 80.

In any event, of course one still needs the vaccine even if one has had a dose of the virus. Even then, there is no certainty that you will not get infected but the claim is that it will not result in severe symptoms requiring hospitalisation.

Bouleversee wrote:It would have been interesting to have had a question on how many doses we have had.

Feel free to formulate it: I was keeping it simple with this poll.

You might just be the only Fool to have had a second jab?

I haven't had my 2nd actually but was curious to know, since I heard that all over 80s in Wargrave have, whether anyone else had.

Yes, people (including me) appear to have been answering the question: "Have you been half vaccinated?"

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:It would have been interesting to have had a question on how many doses we have had.

Feel free to formulate it: I was keeping it simple with this poll.

You might just be the only Fool to have had a second jab?

Nope, I had my second one on Saturday. Pfizer.

Mike4 wrote:Yes, people (including me) appear to have been answering the question: "Have you been half vaccinated?"

The OP's narrative included Have you had - or made an appointment for - at least one shot?.

Lootman wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:

Bouleversee wrote:It would have been interesting to have had a question on how many doses we have had.

Feel free to formulate it: I was keeping it simple with this poll.

You might just be the only Fool to have had a second jab?

Nope, I had my second one on Saturday. Pfizer.

The OP appears to have been talking of the UK.

PinkDalek wrote:

Lootman wrote:

UncleEbenezer wrote:Feel free to formulate it: I was keeping it simple with this poll.

You might just be the only Fool to have had a second jab?

Nope, I had my second one on Saturday. Pfizer.

The OP appears to have been talking of the UK.

I do not see that restriction mentioned in the poll description. The only mention was a list of the vaccines approved in the UK, of which Pfizer is one.

In any event the post I was responding to was specifically asking if any Fools (Lemons) have had a second dose.

Lootman wrote:In any event the post I was responding to was specifically asking if any Fools (Lemons) have had a second dose.

Yes, I know, but I only mentioned it in passing for those who weren't aware that your two doses weren't obtained in the UK.

Lootman wrote:

PinkDalek wrote:

Lootman wrote:Nope, I had my second one on Saturday. Pfizer.

The OP appears to have been talking of the UK.

I do not see that restriction mentioned in the poll description. The only mention was a list of the vaccines approved in the UK, of which Pfizer is one.

In any event the post I was responding to was specifically asking if any Fools (Lemons) have had a second dose.

One of the options specifically mentions having a vaccine outside the UK. Your non-UK Pfizer fits poll expectations just fine.

I know there are a few Fools based (or long-term) outside the UK, and there might also be some among them who've had vaccines not (yet?) approved here. No takers for that (yet?).

UncleEbenezer wrote:One of the options specifically mentions having a vaccine outside the UK. Your non-UK Pfizer fits poll expectations just fine.

Fair enough, I misinterpreted/misread it.

Mike4 wrote:Yes, people (including me) appear to have been answering the question: "Have you been half vaccinated?"

Seems to me it's more than half. The latest data shows a single dose of either vaccine is 80% effective in preventing hospitalisation in the over 80s.

Scott.

swill453 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Yes, people (including me) appear to have been answering the question: "Have you been half vaccinated?"

Seems to me it's more than half. The latest data shows a single dose of either vaccine is 80% effective in preventing hospitalisation in the over 80s.

Scott.

Yes there seems to be three separate measures of 'effectiveness', which the media rarely specifies when quoting. Dr John mentioned this the other day. They are, IIRC:

Effectiveness again hospitalisation and death
Effectiveness against mild disease
Effectiveness against infection

1st jab was 19th January, Pfizer, 2nd scheduled for 6th April which will probably be the next time I go beyond my garden gate!

Tricia

Mike4 wrote:

swill453 wrote:

Mike4 wrote:Yes, people (including me) appear to have been answering the question: "Have you been half vaccinated?"

Seems to me it's more than half. The latest data shows a single dose of either vaccine is 80% effective in preventing hospitalisation in the over 80s.

Scott.

Yes there seems to be three separate measures of 'effectiveness', which the media rarely specifies when quoting. Dr John mentioned this the other day. They are, IIRC:

Effectiveness again hospitalisation and death
Effectiveness against mild disease
Effectiveness against infection

Also effectiveness against transmission? Is it possible to be infected but not just at a low enough viral load to be asymptomatic but at an even lower viral load such that one’s virus shedding rate is low enough to not be likely to infect anyone else thus breaking transmission chains?

We the public are presented with results based on ability to avoid symptoms, death, hospitalisations etc. I often wonder whether the raw effects that virologists, immunologists, pharmacologists etc might actually be working from might be reductions in viral loads as the underlying mechanisms going on (governed by a vaccine’s ability to attenuate natural replication rates?) where asymptomatic/mild-symptoms/hospitalised/dead are emergent properties from that underlying dynamic with individual outcomes further perturbed from baselines by co-morbidities, age and other factors (gender, ethnicity etc).

I pity any virologist or immunologist trapped in a room with me any time in the near future. I would have so many questions.

- Julian

Julian wrote:Also effectiveness against transmission?

Not a realistic criterion since obviously even someone vaccinated up the wazoo could breathe in a mouthful of virus and then immediately breathe it out all over someone else. The point of a vaccination is surely that:

1) Any virus in your body is neutralised more quickly, and so:

2) The amount of time you are infectious is thereby greatly reduced, and:

3) You won't get symptoms and so you won't be coughing and sneezing over others.

We're all virologists now.