9873210 wrote:You need to read it. It says coincidental cannot be ruled out.
My bad. I should have said “associated with” and not “from”.
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9873210 wrote:You need to read it. It says coincidental cannot be ruled out.
Bouleversee wrote:GrahamPlatt wrote:9873210 wrote:You need to read it. It says coincidental cannot be ruled out.
My bad. I should have said “associated with” and not “from”.
The sentence doesn''t really mske sense with that change.
Snorvey wrote:The World Needs the Not-for-Profit AstraZeneca Vaccine, Minus the AstraZeneca Drama
Many people inside Astra are deeply distressed by the extent of the criticism they’ve taken while trying to lead the way to a nonprofit vaccine that could help end the pandemic. As one executive puts it when asked if they’d do it again: “Not in a million years. All we’ve had is grief.”
The story of the Astra-Oxford vaccine. MIght be behind a paywall, but Bloomberg do give a number of free articles away per month
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features ... ith-errors
zico wrote:AZ's main problem has been that it seems to be "somewhat" less effective than other vaccines. The word "somewhat" is doing a lot of heavy lifting here, because it's still pretty unclear to me just what the effectiveness is. Lower effectiveness and less clarity is a pretty bad combination, so unsurprisingly, anyone with a choice of vaccines is choosing to have a different vaccine.
Bouleversee wrote:I've just read that the Oxford biotechnology start-up behind the AstraZeneca vaccine is planning to float shortly on the New York Stock Exchange, for goodness sake! Sarah Gilbert and her colleague are expected to make £20million each. I didn't see any mention of AZN having a stake in the business or SUPP for that matter, both of which would have given me a copper or two perhaps.
Bouleversee wrote:GrahamPlatt wrote:There is a natural cohort of people with a thrombogenic tendency. It tends to be expressed in young women on taking the oral contraceptive pill, either in the form of pulmonary embolism or stroke. A rare, but well documented “side effect” of the OCP. But we don’t test these young ladies beforehand.
Why not? I should have thought it would make sense to test them before and at an appropriate interval after starting on OCP and the same as regards the vaccine with people who were known to have the genetic prothrombin factor.
I wonder how many of those women who came to grief after the vaccination were on OCP or had a prothrombin factor. It hasn't even been discussed so far as I am aware.
Bouleversee wrote:I've just read that the Oxford biotechnology start-up behind the AstraZeneca vaccine is planning to float shortly on the New York Stock Exchange, for goodness sake! Sarah Gilbert and her colleague are expected to make £20million each. I didn't see any mention of AZN having a stake in the business or SUPP for that matter, both of which would have given me a copper or two perhaps.
Arborbridge wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I've just read that the Oxford biotechnology start-up behind the AstraZeneca vaccine is planning to float shortly on the New York Stock Exchange, for goodness sake! Sarah Gilbert and her colleague are expected to make £20million each. I didn't see any mention of AZN having a stake in the business or SUPP for that matter, both of which would have given me a copper or two perhaps.
I frankly admit I don't know the internal details of this, but on the face of it, this would seem a fairly normal event in a capitalist society. There's always the "problem" of how much public money has enabled researchers of this sort to progress, but given that these people came up with the research and the systems to accomplish what they did, where is the difficulty for you? AZN, of course, were vital to large scale production, but they were the manufacturers, not (AKAIK) the originators of the idea.
It's the idea and development end which is being floated, by the sound of it, and they deserve a massive reward. The US has always been ahead of us in this way and just look at how their technology industries have advanced compared with ours. The "for Goodness sake" for me, would be how sad it is that the UK market is so far out of touch with technology that they need to launch in the US to get a decent amount of interest. How moribund are we!
As regards AZN, who you may think are losing out here, they had an ample chance to make a mint over this, but it looks as though they let it slip. Maybe they were too woke, and not awake.
Arb.
Arborbridge wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I've just read that the Oxford biotechnology start-up behind the AstraZeneca vaccine is planning to float shortly on the New York Stock Exchange, for goodness sake! Sarah Gilbert and her colleague are expected to make £20million each. I didn't see any mention of AZN having a stake in the business or SUPP for that matter, both of which would have given me a copper or two perhaps.
I frankly admit I don't know the internal details of this, but on the face of it, this would seem a fairly normal event in a capitalist society. There's always the "problem" of how much public money has enabled researchers of this sort to progress, but given that these people came up with the research and the systems to accomplish what they did, where is the difficulty for you? AZN, of course, were vital to large scale production, but they were the manufacturers, not (AKAIK) the originators of the idea.
It's the idea and development end which is being floated, by the sound of it, and they deserve a massive reward. The US has always been ahead of us in this way and just look at how their technology industries have advanced compared with ours. The "for Goodness sake" for me, would be how sad it is that the UK market is so far out of touch with technology that they need to launch in the US to get a decent amount of interest. How moribund are we!
As regards AZN, who you may think are losing out here, they had an ample chance to make a mint over this, but it looks as though they let it slip. Maybe they were too woke, and not awake.
Arb.
Bouleversee wrote:I read at the weekend that the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine had also had instances of that type of clotting, as have Pfizer and Moderna, I still can't understand why AZN is getting all the stick for this.
ReallyVeryFoolish wrote:absolutezero wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I read at the weekend that the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine had also had instances of that type of clotting, as have Pfizer and Moderna, I still can't understand why AZN is getting all the stick for this.
Short answer: Politics.
Long answer: EU sour grapes wanting to make a British product look bad - purely out of spite.
Yet the "Astra" bit of "AZ" is Swedish. Last time I looked, that was in the EU. Only the "Zeneca" bit is originally British. It was the Pharmaceutical Division of ICI before it was floated off as a separate company.
RVF
absolutezero wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I read at the weekend that the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine had also had instances of that type of clotting, as have Pfizer and Moderna, I still can't understand why AZN is getting all the stick for this.
Short answer: Politics.
Long answer: EU sour grapes wanting to make a British product look bad - purely out of spite.
absolutezero wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I read at the weekend that the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine had also had instances of that type of clotting, as have Pfizer and Moderna, I still can't understand why AZN is getting all the stick for this.
Short answer: Politics.
Long answer: EU sour grapes wanting to make a British product look bad - purely out of spite.
zico wrote:absolutezero wrote:Bouleversee wrote:I read at the weekend that the new Johnson and Johnson vaccine had also had instances of that type of clotting, as have Pfizer and Moderna, I still can't understand why AZN is getting all the stick for this.
Short answer: Politics.
Long answer: EU sour grapes wanting to make a British product look bad - purely out of spite.
If you think EU sour grapes is the reason, than how do you explain last week? On the same day the UK and European health authorities looked at very similar data but the UK gave a more cautious recommendation, namely offering under-30s an alternative vaccine.
British fifth columnists wanting to undermine their country?
The more boring reason appears to be that AZ has been first to be widely used, so was first vaccine where problems were detected. all the vaccines aim to produce a response from the immune system, and very very very rarely, the immune system goes a bit overboard, which is bad for the vaccineee (if there's such a word).
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