Covid Vaccination

[GeoffF100]

Here is an international comparison of vaccination rates:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Comparing the vaccine roll-outs of the UK and EU is not helpful because of their huge difference in size: 67 million vs 447 million (about 1 : 7). The UK got in first by ordering more than twice what it needed when the vaccines were still unproven. That would not have worked for the whole of the EU. The supply would have been spread too thinly. Faster production was needed. A better comparison is the US:

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-sho ... tion-goals

Pfizer and Moderna are the only two vaccines currently approved in the US (but AZ is likely to be approved soon). The two companies are neck and neck. Biden has pumped huge resources into the two companies. Production in March is set to be triple that in February:

https://www.axios.com/vaccine-covid-man ... d7eae.html

[Nimrod103]

Pfizer and Moderna are the only two vaccines currently approved in the US (but AZ is likely to be approved soon). The two companies are neck and neck. Biden has pumped huge resources into the two companies. Production in March is set to be triple that in February:

https://www.axios.com/vaccine-covid-man ... d7eae.html

I assume when you write Biden, you mean mainly Trump, because the original target of 200 million vaccines by March must have been his target?

[dealtn]

Here is an international comparison of vaccination rates:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Comparing the vaccine roll-outs of the UK and EU is not helpful because of their huge difference in size: 67 million vs 447 million (about 1 : 7).

The data is available in "doses administered per 100 people". You aren't comparing absolute numbers. You think this isn't "helpful" in comparing?

[chas49]

Moderator Message:
I am moving this to the Coronavirus Discussions board - which is the correct board for non-political aspects of Coronavirus. (chas49)

[GeoffF100]

Here is an international comparison of vaccination rates:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Comparing the vaccine roll-outs of the UK and EU is not helpful because of their huge difference in size: 67 million vs 447 million (about 1 : 7).

The data is available in "doses administered per 100 people". You aren't comparing absolute numbers. You think this isn't "helpful" in comparing?

Comparison of the UK and the EU is not helpful because a single country can corner the supply by getting in first. A whole continent cannot. Given the vaccine nationalism that has been clearly evident, the best solution for the EU would have been to build its own productive capacity fast. There are clearly problems with that. Moderna is clearly American. Pfizer is using German technology, but is an American company. AstraZeneca is Anglo-Swedish, so only partly EU. That is not a good starting point. The EU also lacks also lacks a central government. The Commission cannot do much without referring back to the member states for their approval. Biden is using war time powers. The EU does not an equivalent of that.

[GeoffF100]

Pfizer and Moderna are the only two vaccines currently approved in the US (but AZ is likely to be approved soon). The two companies are neck and neck. Biden has pumped huge resources into the two companies. Production in March is set to be triple that in February:

https://www.axios.com/vaccine-covid-man ... d7eae.html

I assume when you write Biden, you mean mainly Trump, because the original target of 200 million vaccines by March must have been his target?

The vaccine procurement process started with Trump, but Biden has gone further, according to the NPR article linked. A more comprehensive account of the US experience would be helpful here.

[dealtn]

Here is an international comparison of vaccination rates:

https://ourworldindata.org/covid-vaccinations

Comparing the vaccine roll-outs of the UK and EU is not helpful because of their huge difference in size: 67 million vs 447 million (about 1 : 7).

The data is available in "doses administered per 100 people". You aren't comparing absolute numbers. You think this isn't "helpful" in comparing?

Comparison of the UK and the EU is not helpful because a single country can corner the supply by getting in first. A whole continent cannot. Given the vaccine nationalism that has been clearly evident, the best solution for the EU would have been to build its own productive capacity fast. There are clearly problems with that. Moderna is clearly American. Pfizer is using German technology, but is an American company. AstraZeneca is Anglo-Swedish, so only partly EU. That is not a good starting point. The EU also lacks also lacks a central government. The Commission cannot do much without referring back to the member states for their approval. Biden is using war time powers. The EU does not an equivalent of that.

There are 146 separate countries administering the vaccine in that dataset. I think we might have different ideas on a definition of "corner the supply".

That's sufficient data for me to be able to compare performance, and the data appears very helpful in that respect.

I don't have a strong structural position on the EU but I disagree the best solution is for them to build their own capacity. I think that is best left to the private sector, which appears to have done a remarkably good job in delivering a vaccine.

[GeoffF100]

I don't have a strong structural position on the EU but I disagree the best solution is for them to build their own capacity. I think that is best left to the private sector, which appears to have done a remarkably good job in delivering a vaccine.

That is what I was suggesting, as has happened in the US. Nonetheless, the US has exclusively used US companies. I was pointing out that was difficult for the EU (an abbreviation that covers many different things). The main issue here is the future structure and trade policy of the EU.

[dealtn]

I don't have a strong structural position on the EU but I disagree the best solution is for them to build their own capacity. I think that is best left to the private sector, which appears to have done a remarkably good job in delivering a vaccine.

That is what I was suggesting, as has happened in the US. Nonetheless, the US has exclusively used US companies. I was pointing out that was difficult for the EU (an abbreviation that covers many different things). The main issue here is the future structure and trade policy of the EU.

Now I am even more confused then.

Earlier you stated that EU was using Pfizer-Biontech as its main vaccine, but didn't consider that German technology as it was being used by a US company. Now the same vaccine in the US is considered "exclusively .. US", despite the German technology.

Modern business, within which modern pharma exists, is a global intertwined set up. Relying on nationalistic approaches won't work. The private sector isn't going to work like that. Research, manufacture, and ownership are all going to be international.

The EU shouldn't be handicapped in anyway and should operate like the US. Only Russia and China of the large economies attempt to keep state solutions to such issues (and even then not always exclusively).

[GeoffF100]

I don't have a strong structural position on the EU but I disagree the best solution is for them to build their own capacity. I think that is best left to the private sector, which appears to have done a remarkably good job in delivering a vaccine.

That is what I was suggesting, as has happened in the US. Nonetheless, the US has exclusively used US companies. I was pointing out that was difficult for the EU (an abbreviation that covers many different things). The main issue here is the future structure and trade policy of the EU.

Now I am even more confused then.

Earlier you stated that EU was using Pfizer-Biontech as its main vaccine, but didn't consider that German technology as it was being used by a US company. Now the same vaccine in the US is considered "exclusively .. US", despite the German technology.

Modern business, within which modern pharma exists, is a global intertwined set up. Relying on nationalistic approaches won't work. The private sector isn't going to work like that. Research, manufacture, and ownership are all going to be international.

The EU shouldn't be handicapped in anyway and should operate like the US. Only Russia and China of the large economies attempt to keep state solutions to such issues (and even then not always exclusively).

I have not said what vaccines the EU is using.

I said that the Pfizer vaccine is based on German technology.

I said that Pfizer is a US company. I did not say it was "exclusively a US company".

I did say that the US was exclusively using vaccines produced by US companies, i.e. Pfizer and Moderna.

I also said that the US will probably approve the AZ vaccine. They might well use it too, but they will not be reliant on it.

I have not suggested that the EU should handicap itself any way.

I have not suggested that the EU adopt state solutions that the US is not using.

[Lootman]

Pfizer and Moderna are the only two vaccines currently approved in the US

Not true, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was approved earlier this month in the US, and is already being distributed. It could be a game-changer as it only needs one dose.

[GeoffF100]

Pfizer and Moderna are the only two vaccines currently approved in the US

Not true, the Johnson and Johnson vaccine was approved earlier this month in the US, and is already being distributed. It could be a game-changer as it only needs one dose.

Yes, Lootman, the J&J vaccine has indeed been approved:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56226979

The US has bought another 100 million does:

https://www.voanews.com/covid-19-pandem ... cine-doses

I was thrown off the scent by the NPR article. I have not been able to find complete and up to date statistics for the number of does administered by manufacturer.

J&J is another US manufacturer. The US approach has been to pour huge amounts of state money and other help into its indigenous suppliers. As I have said, it was not easy for Europe to emulate that. I do not believe that having all the individual countries squabbling over what is available on the world market is a good idea. The US approach speaks for itself. They are way ahead of the other two economic superpowers: EU and China.

[servodude]

Oops, Johnson has put his foot in it. To the 1922 Committee:

"The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends."

Followed by repeatedly saying "forget I said that".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/ ... row-greed/

Confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg, no less.

Scott.

With a not-for-profit vaccine?
-sd

[GeoffF100]

Oops, Johnson has put his foot in it. To the 1922 Committee:

"The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends."

Followed by repeatedly saying "forget I said that".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/ ... row-greed/

Confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg, no less.

Scott.

With a not-for-profit vaccine?
-sd

Johnson had ordered 400 million vaccine doses, when I last looked. 100 million of those are AZ. You may have to search for this one, "AstraZeneca vaccine document shows limit of no-profit pledge":

https://www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-880 ... 4af145b686

AZ has had massive subsidies from the UK and the EU to produce the vaccine. Their vaccine was success mostly because of state support not capitalism.

Moderator Message:
Edited to remove political comment

[Nimrod103]

Oops, Johnson has put his foot in it. To the 1922 Committee:

"The reason we have the vaccine success is because of capitalism, because of greed my friends."

Followed by repeatedly saying "forget I said that".

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/politics/ ... row-greed/

Confirmed by Laura Kuenssberg, no less.

Scott.

With a not-for-profit vaccine?
-sd

Johnson had ordered 400 million vaccine doses, when I last looked. 100 million of those are AZ. You may have to search for this one, "AstraZeneca vaccine document shows limit of no-profit pledge":

https://www.ft.com/content/c474f9e1-880 ... 4af145b686

AZ has had massive subsidies from the UK and the EU to produce the vaccine. Their vaccine was success mostly because of state support not capitalism.

Only not for profit while the present emergency lasts.

[redsturgeon]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K3odScka55A

Useful video clearly explaining differences in vaccine efficacy rates.

John

[9873210]

I have not been able to find complete and up to date statistics for the number of does administered by manufacturer.

https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tracker/#vaccinations

Scroll down a bit.